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rob13572468 · 03-23-2005, 03:49 AM

ok i need a bit of advice on the oversteer topic; ive been driving FF cars my whole life and while i have become quite adept at controlling front drive cars in emergency/slide type situations and even had a DB7 for a few months, the elise is my first midengine car. i have read through as much as i could find on the subject and so far while i have not had any control problems with the elise i have noticed some interesting things happening that run somewhat contrary to what is being said should happpen...

the specfic issue is in regard to throttle induced oversteer at somewhat low speeds in the elise. i have been playing around in empty parking lots attempting to get used to the various traction loss conditions in an attempt to learn and i have found that i can break the rear wheels loose with a simple stab of the throttle when i am making a (somewhat) sharp turn at ~40 mph and in 2nd gear. while the rear coming loose was not much of a surprise; what was interesting was that i was easily able to correct with a very small amount of countersteer and by lifting and reapplying throttle. when i say countersteer i mean that if the turn was left and the steering was at 90 degrees left, the countersteer would be turning the wheel back towards 0 to at most 5 degrees right. the throttle lift is probably more like a modulation: not lifting completely off as in a panic situation but rather pulling back to maybe 10% throttle and then reapplying to accellerating out of the turn at right about the time the front wheels are pointed straight again.

according to everything i read, when i lifted off of the throttle, the unweighting of the real wheels should have made the spin much worse, particularly the first time this happened, which ironically was an actual unexpected event; that first time i was taken by surprise and i pretty much backed all the way off of the throttle in the typical panic response but still countersteered and recovered easily though i didnt reapply throttle until it had straightened out. in each event, the slide started at around the apex of the turn and the rear slid from that 45 degree position past straight (0 deg) and to probably 20-30 degrees past straight. it felt as though going back on throttle straightend the car back up but at that point it seemed that the wheels already had traction back anyways. of course each time the whole thing happened in the course of like 1 second and my overall respoinse was something like "woooo... this car is fun" but my ultimate goal is to understand how and why the car does these things so as to develop the correct automatic response for when the unexpected does happen.

my car has the touring package, stock and no LSS. its got 1000 miles on it and the tire treads are still in new condition. road conditions are typical chicago (crappy, bits of gravel and not very smooth) but i have been able to induce the slide on dry, relatively smooth and clean pavement.

my question is this: when i came off the throttle, the oversteer did not get worse; is this because the speed was not fast enough i.e. the same situation at 65 mph would have sent me spinning or was that exactly what was supposed to happen and the only reason that i did not come further around is because i went back on throttle as the vehicle came across the exit line? as i said it felt as though by the time i reapplied throttle that i already had traction back under the rear wheels but maybe it just felt that way. could it be possible that the correct way to handle the situation would be to simply keep on throttle and then apply additional countersteer?

i have noticed the difference between how a midengined car oversteers as opposed to a front engine/rear drive car like the DB7... the elise feels more like a pivoting effect rather than the swinging that the DB7 did or even the SL55. those cars got away very easily and it felt very out of control because of the lack of weight over the rear wheels. with the elise it seems as though the engine keeps the rear wheels planted but since i have not been in one of these violent spins that i have seen i really do not know what to expect. id appreciate any input or comments on this...

03-23-2005, 03:49 AM	#84 (permalink)
rob13572468 the devil's advocate... Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: chicago Posts: 883	ok i need a bit of advice on the oversteer topic; ive been driving FF cars my whole life and while i have become quite adept at controlling front drive cars in emergency/slide type situations and even had a DB7 for a few months, the elise is my first midengine car. i have read through as much as i could find on the subject and so far while i have not had any control problems with the elise i have noticed some interesting things happening that run somewhat contrary to what is being said should happpen... the specfic issue is in regard to throttle induced oversteer at somewhat low speeds in the elise. i have been playing around in empty parking lots attempting to get used to the various traction loss conditions in an attempt to learn and i have found that i can break the rear wheels loose with a simple stab of the throttle when i am making a (somewhat) sharp turn at ~40 mph and in 2nd gear. while the rear coming loose was not much of a surprise; what was interesting was that i was easily able to correct with a very small amount of countersteer and by lifting and reapplying throttle. when i say countersteer i mean that if the turn was left and the steering was at 90 degrees left, the countersteer would be turning the wheel back towards 0 to at most 5 degrees right. the throttle lift is probably more like a modulation: not lifting completely off as in a panic situation but rather pulling back to maybe 10% throttle and then reapplying to accellerating out of the turn at right about the time the front wheels are pointed straight again. according to everything i read, when i lifted off of the throttle, the unweighting of the real wheels should have made the spin much worse, particularly the first time this happened, which ironically was an actual unexpected event; that first time i was taken by surprise and i pretty much backed all the way off of the throttle in the typical panic response but still countersteered and recovered easily though i didnt reapply throttle until it had straightened out. in each event, the slide started at around the apex of the turn and the rear slid from that 45 degree position past straight (0 deg) and to probably 20-30 degrees past straight. it felt as though going back on throttle straightend the car back up but at that point it seemed that the wheels already had traction back anyways. of course each time the whole thing happened in the course of like 1 second and my overall respoinse was something like "woooo... this car is fun" but my ultimate goal is to understand how and why the car does these things so as to develop the correct automatic response for when the unexpected does happen. my car has the touring package, stock and no LSS. its got 1000 miles on it and the tire treads are still in new condition. road conditions are typical chicago (crappy, bits of gravel and not very smooth) but i have been able to induce the slide on dry, relatively smooth and clean pavement. my question is this: when i came off the throttle, the oversteer did not get worse; is this because the speed was not fast enough i.e. the same situation at 65 mph would have sent me spinning or was that exactly what was supposed to happen and the only reason that i did not come further around is because i went back on throttle as the vehicle came across the exit line? as i said it felt as though by the time i reapplied throttle that i already had traction back under the rear wheels but maybe it just felt that way. could it be possible that the correct way to handle the situation would be to simply keep on throttle and then apply additional countersteer? i have noticed the difference between how a midengined car oversteers as opposed to a front engine/rear drive car like the DB7... the elise feels more like a pivoting effect rather than the swinging that the DB7 did or even the SL55. those cars got away very easily and it felt very out of control because of the lack of weight over the rear wheels. with the elise it seems as though the engine keeps the rear wheels planted but since i have not been in one of these violent spins that i have seen i really do not know what to expect. id appreciate any input or comments on this...