[PhlypSide]

Originally Posted by AV8NDOC

You must not understand cars and physics much--you obviously CANNOT grasp the point I am saying. Lets make it elementary grade simple:

The power goes to the ground thru the drive wheels/rubber only, so simple driving that is not on the edge of the performance envelope will not uncover the obvious drive wheels that are working! So does a RWD car shift its weight back when launched and a FWD not--of course not.

Really? Wow, you understand sOoooo much more than me. Did you read the article posted earlier, it explains all this as well

Originally Posted by AV8NDOC

Now, the suspension is what will control the handling of the car when moved from a steady state--this can be tweaked by the designers/engineers to do whatever you want with it. No car can be set-up for all conditions at once.

I think the appropriate quip here is "gee thanks, Captain Obvious", didn't I say that the suspension is set differently in different drivetrain layouts so your "miracle" car isn't realistic in that regards either, way to claim a point I've already made

Originally Posted by AV8NDOC

You obviously think you can easily tell if you are driving, for example, a RWD A4 versus an AWD A4 down the freeway, cause you are so smart and understand instantly the nuances of how the power is getting to the ground. Yeah, big deal--if you do such rash maneuvers, like any real driver wouldn't do, then you can coax the answer out of the car -- but my original question does not imply you drive it like a rental to get the answer, but rather that you cannot easily tell what tires are putting the power down.

I said to try the maneuvers on a large stretch of dry or wet or snowy pavement, preferably on a closed track, but it's certainly not required (lest you try to throw the argument the other way and say that "well that's just on a closed track"). Rash maneuvers on a large empty stretch of pavement does no harm and will certainly reveal the drive train layout of a given car.

Originally Posted by AV8NDOC

Next, you are going to tell me that you drift your Subaru and can feel the differentials shifting the power between the wheels and know just when certain tires are getting the power to the road . . .

[Facetious]Sure, can you?[/Facetious] This is funny since all contemporary Subarus feature full-time symmetrical (50/50) AWD (with the exception of the adjustments you can make on STis).

Originally Posted by AV8NDOC

Do you not understand that you can set-up the handling of any car to over- or understeer. Well I know this is true--just as plain as you think you know that all RWD cars oversteer and all FWD cars understeer--but I certainly do not have the knowledge/experience to tell you exactly how to set-up your car to prove it--but I can try if you want.

No sh*t again, Captain Obvious Most cars, even FRs are set from the factory to understeer to save n00bs like most of us are

Originally Posted by AV8NDOC

Do yo know there was an S1 Elise? Do you know it was prone to snap oversteer on the edge? Do you know the new Elise (probably the only Lotus you have ever known) is not prone to this like the old one? Do you think this is because they changed the drive wheels? Yes, you do.

Not only did I know there was an S1 Elise, I was in Europe when they were released. What does this prove? Many MR cars, including the Toyota MR-2 (SW21/20) are prone to snap oversteer, especially if you lift mid-corner. You can tune out some of this with wheels/tires and suspension, if you like

Now WTF does all this jibber jabber have to do with FWD cars not being sportscars?