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Could Save Yr AS$? Moss Emergency Line

21K views 52 replies 34 participants last post by  glb 
#1 ·
Having had no luck googling this potentially life-saving maneuver, I am going to try to explain it myself. I’ve done this before, with varying success. And, as you’ll see, I am terrible at diagrams on the computer. (Anyone who can find/present a better demo is welcome to.)

As we all know, in many cars and especially those with mid-engines, we don’t want to lift or brake in a fast turn.

But, if we go in too fast, we miss the apex, someone blocks us, or some other emergency arises, what can we do?

Well, we can use the (Stirling) MOSS EMERGENCY LINE. SM says to drive straight as far as you can, while braking as heavily as possible. You will lose enough speed to get the car under control before you have to turn (usually at the far side of the road). Remember, cars brake very quickly, more efficiently than they accelerate.

I’ve used this many times on track and street and I can tell you that it works.

Red (if it shows up) is the braking zone.

Many on ET really know how to drive (better than I) and comments & suggestions are welcome.

But, I hope this helps you as much as it’s helped me.
 

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#2 ·
It certainly looks like it would work. Thanks. :up:
 
#4 ·
sext: i like your new avatar! cute
 
#5 ·
yes...thats a good technique.
i do have some concerns using that line and that braking procedure on a track if someone is behind me.
well, i mean on open track days, not an actual race.
im afraid someone would slam into me...
i dont know.
good post glb!
 
#7 ·
I have used that line a few times and it works well. Just hang on as long as you can braking and when you run out of pavement, feed a little gas to get the car neutral and turn. If you still don't feel comfortable, don't turn and just go straight off (been there, done that-eek-).
 
#8 ·
the tip above works well if you too early apex it. - done it before!

another sorta related thing -

typically, unless its like a cliff, driving OFF the road is usualy a lot better than spining back onto it, or endo... just drive off, slow it down and drive back on, off road recoveries do not often go very well !
 
#10 ·
Sorry, but I don't get it. If red is the braking zone, why would you want to be braking there? You're already through the turn.
 
#25 ·
Sorry, but I don't get it. If red is the braking zone, why would you want to be braking there? You're already through the turn.
You have the car's direction backward.

The "car" is at the beginning of the braking/turn, going from left to right in the diagram...
 
#13 ·
hes right

that definitely works, i use it on GranTurismo4 all the time. If i'm coming in too fast and/or miss the apex, straight-line braking is more efficient than trail-braking(turning whilst braking).

Good post
 
#24 ·
that definitely works, i use it on GranTurismo4 all the time. If i'm coming in too fast and/or miss the apex, straight-line braking is more efficient than trail-braking(turning whilst braking).

Good post
thanks, but what kind of car is a GT4, pray tell? :D
 
#14 ·
good post and good reminder. The natural tendency is to try to trail brake an over-cooked corner. You have to remind yourself to look straight ahead at real-estate you don't normally associate with the corner's exit as you stand on the brakes. Very hard to do.
 
#16 ·
I dunno. :sheep: While straightforward (har-har), you need to remember that SM's advice comes from an era of cars without ABS.

If you have ABS disabled (or non-existent, as in a race car), certainly SM's expertise would apply. :bow:

If you have ABS enabled, you can add a bit of trail braking to the mix. But it all comes back to stopping ASAP and limiting upset to the car as much as possible.

Contrary to popular belief, ABS is not an anti-ice braking system. :rolleyes: Nor does it allow a car to stop shorter. :rolleyes: Pulsing the brakes allows you to STEER while braking, whereas if your brakes were locked-up, this would not be possible.
 
#17 ·
I dunno. :sheep: While straightforward (har-har), you need to remember that SM's advice comes from an era of cars without ABS.

If you have ABS disabled (or non-existent, as in a race car), certainly SM's expertise would apply. :bow:

If you have ABS enabled, you can add a bit of trail braking to the mix. But it all comes back to stopping ASAP and limiting upset to the car as much as possible.

Contrary to popular belief, ABS is not an anti-ice braking system. :rolleyes: Nor does it allow a car to stop shorter. :rolleyes: Pulsing the brakes allows you to STEER while braking, whereas if your brakes were locked-up, this would not be possible.[/QUOTE

That's a really good point, but I can even lock up ABS-assisted brakes in track applications when I'm in panic mode (when I'm making this face :eek:). Once they're locked up, it's good (but difficult) to remember front tires don't steer if they aren't rolling. Then the Moss line is your only friend...and a neck brace if that doesn't work out.

Tom
 
#23 ·
thank you v much.
 
#22 ·
ABS:

I don't know how it works in this situation on our cars, but it prevents using the "both feet in" (brake & clutch) technique in a spin on most cars.

Common wisdom has said that if you can lockup the wheels during a spin, you will at least spin straight ahead, vs making large arcs into solid items.

How does it work on our cars?
 
#26 ·
Great write up. :clap: When I teach my friends how to drive in a bit more spirited manner, I teach them to late apex for this very reason. If your natural line is the safest, then you can have fun on a twisty road, and have a large margin of error. Late apexing saves you generally when driving around blind corners, decreasing radius corners, and keeps your mid corner speed a lot lower, since you never really fully commit to a corner.

Whether on the track, on the street, or driving up in the canyons, it's better to be on the brakes and depart the road in a controlled manner than try to save it. This method works wonders, as if you don't manage to slow the car down by using all of the traction for braking, at least you are going to depart the road under control.

Per spinning, locking up the brakes puts your direction of travel constant from where you locked the brakes. I did that in an old VW, and hitting the brakes at the right time put my velocity vector straight down the road, so I avoided any body work. This trick works reasonably well in a car equipped with ABS.
 
#27 ·
Brendan -

Yup, there is a lot of good info in this thread, lots of people contributing, you too.

I've seen T-shirts that say: "Friends don't let friends early apex"

My one experience w/ a spin in an ABS-equipped car, the ABS wouldn't let the wheels lock up and the car gave me a lovely tour of the entire roadway, all 3 lanes, and the embankment.

If the the theory is that the brakes must be locked for this technique to work and ABS (in my one experience) didn't allow that, I can't see "both feet in" working.

Any ideas......anyone?
 
#28 ·
I spun an E34 525i with ABS, and I did stay in one lane. Food for thought there though is that 1. I wasn't going more than 50mph 2. That is was raining 3. That's still a fairly basic ABS system when compared with modern cars, being IIRC two channel not four channel. Thinking further, I can see a four channel ABS having issues with a spin, since it is going to try to keep the car going straight, but in that situation things are probably happening too fast and too violently for it to deal with.

At a driving clinic, I saw a friend of mine spin an E60 530 with the DSC on. Why? Over cooked it into a corner with a sharp steering input (why???), and the tail kicked out. While the tail was out and the DSC was trying to save it, he countersteered, which when you combine the steering input, and DSC braking input, the car violently swung the other direction. He still hasn't heard the end of it, nor has he driven my E39 540. :D

Next time I'm in an open enough spot I might spin my E39 to see what the brakes do...:shift:
 
#30 ·
The diagram is bogus. In the diagram, the car is in trouble, so it makes a hard left, and then brakes. According to the diagram, there is no need to brake, because the car already made the turn. So why not accelerate in the red zone.? If the car is really in trouble, it cant make that left in the first place.
 
#31 ·
The earlier comment about letting the suspension settle is spot on, you want to get off the brakes in time for the suspension to settle before the agressive turn. Fortunately on the Lotus the settling period is very brief.
 
#36 ·
Reading is becoming a lost art and this doesn't bode well for society.

Perhaps I should do everything in cartoon form.

Thanks.
 
#37 ·
Thanks for posting this, by the way. This has saved my butt a few times, and a refresher to keep it engrained in my head is always a good thing. Also, "Slow in. Fast out" is the rule on the street.

My reminder to not get in a situation where I need to use the Moss line is a patch I found a few years ago. I've wedged it right by my tachometer, in plain sight when I'm driving.
 
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