Isaac head and neck restraint

[sleepe]

I am compiling a list of safety equipment. The list is complete aside from a head and neck restraint system.
The "Isaac (www.isaacdirect.com) Link" and the "Isaac Basic" are my options in the Isaac lineup. I am leaning toward the Isaac Basic because it is
safer, but the Isaac link is attractive at $275.
I have not been able to find much information on the Isaac head and neck restraint system. I assume they are missing a certification, becuase they are not widely used.
Does anybody have experience with the Isaac?

[SteveLevin]

No experience -- based on their ad copy, I'm not sure it's actually SFI 38.1 certified (although they show the results of tests conducted to that spec). If it's not certified, then it wouldn't be acceptable to most racing organizations.

Steve

[codymac]

Might search the forum... I recall someone here was running it in an Elise/Exige and posted some photos and minor details.

[JeffYoung]

Go here:

www.improvedtouring.com

or here

www.roadrace-autox.com

And do some searching. The creator of the Isaac has posted there many times (Gregg Baker). Great dude.

The Isaac is the "insurgent" H&N device, and I used to have one of the top of the line ones. The lack of SFI certification is due to one thing and one thing alone: failure to have a single point of release (Hans releass when you release your harness). It has two, two pull pins on either side of the helmet.

SCCA after great debate on this point (I race SCCA) only recommends an SFI cert for an H&N device so you can use it in SCCA right now. I became concerned that they were going to require SFI cert (I believe some other club racing racing organizations do) so I sold it.

The Isaac is, and Gregg appears to prove this with video, far superior to the Hans especially in any angular impacts, where the Hans can slip out from under the harness.

For non racing HPDE stuff, I think it would be ideal as little risk of a sanctioning body legilsating you out of existence, etc.

Read some of the stuff about SFI on those borders. Not a popular organization amongst club racers.

[LarryB]

One other thing to note- the HANs limits the head movement. The Isaac has a two stage shock. Allows for "normal" movement then goes real stiff, to limit the force your neck will see. Since I've got a very stiff neck have been talking to Gregg (and getting my doctor in the loop) about doing a special version. Then again I'm only doing HPDE. He's been very helpful and that is the route I plan on going with.

Jeff- how do like it? Does it affect turning your head side to side much?

[JeffYoung]

i liked it a lot. You could move your head some, and after the first hour or so you didn't really notice it. It's a very "trick" design, and if you watch the vids Gregg has of even slightly less than head on impacts wtih the Hans, it certainly appears to be far superior.

It's also very easy to disconnet.

I wish I hadn't sold it, but I was concerned SCCA was going to outlaw it.

[tandemracer]

Originally Posted by codymac

Might search the forum... I recall someone here was running it in an Elise/Exige and posted some photos and minor details.

That was this post:
Safety Equipment Thread

[sleepe]

Originally Posted by codymac

Might search the forum... I recall someone here was running it in an Elise/Exige and posted some photos and minor details.

I saw that photo, thanks.
He was wearing the "Intermediate Isaac", which
is $895.

[sleepe]

I spoke to a representative at Isaac yesterday.
He said the helmet bracket can be attached using either conventional
nuts/bolts or commercial adhesive.
I mentioned my Elise and he lit up because the adhesive used to adhere the
helmet bracket to the helmet is basically the same stuff used to hold our Lotuses together.
Isaac really is cutting edge safety equipment, compared to knock-off Hans competitors.
-Robert

[Conan]

interesting. I still like the Leatt brace design best so far. However, their marketing and/or production sucks and they never seem to have the Moto-R available -- even after almost 2 years of listing it on their web site as "Retail Price to be confirmed."

I ended up getting a HANS sport model 20.

[LarryB]

Yeah did look into the Leatt brace (and called them). They are suppose to be coming out mid-year in the states. But being a South Africa company got no call backs or email response from the local guys that should have been able to get me more details.

[JeffYoung]

I used the adhesive. It worked just fine, and seemed better than drilling into my helmet.

[LBC111]

Sow how does it attach to the harness? It looks like it can slide.

[R'elise Me]

It does slide, but ulitmately it is just following your body as it and the shoulder belts move forward (or wherever). The video on Isaac's website comparing the Hans and Isaac, IMO, should be taken with a grain of salt, since both videos are made by Isaac and there are no verification parties to them (at least none mentioned) That is not to say they aren't fairly devised, just my paranoic mind at work.

I think the merit of Issac being attached to the belt is significant. It keeps the shoulder harnesses from falling off the shoulders and it really makes me wonder why there is no strap on shoulder harness that maintains their max spacing in a collision.

The downside, and the reason I went to HANS, may be that one day that needed dexterity to release two pins on your helmet in an emergency may not exist and an emergency worker simply wont know how to release you from the belt, much less be able to reach around your helmet and blindly release the pin. Your are literally tied to your harnesses helplessly unless you can release yourself.

Sounds crazy, but Isaac should develop an automatic release mechanism. Maybe a fusible link that self destructs a few seconds after a high g load is experienced or a small servo motor attached to each link that releases the helmet pin in the same circumstances.

[SteveLevin]

I tend to fall in the camp of "too many moving parts" on this; I like that I hit my harness release (easy to get to) and I can get out. In my race car my ability to reach things up on my shoulders is limited because it's pretty tight confines (I have to rotate my body to allow one arm up to attach my HANS tether, then "fall back" into my seat, and then rise slightly and rotate the other way to get the other HANS tether attached).

As a general aside, it's important to remember that 5/6 point harnesses are meant to be worn as absolutely tightly as you can crank down on them. To the point of being uncomfortable when you are pulling out of the pits (and then I stop noticing, to be honest ).

Steve

[gbaker]

Originally Posted by R'elise Me

It does slide, but ulitmately it is just following your body as it and the shoulder belts move forward (or wherever). The video on Isaac's website comparing the Hans and Isaac, IMO, should be taken with a grain of salt, since both videos are made by Isaac and there are no verification parties to them (at least none mentioned) That is not to say they aren't fairly devised, just my paranoic mind at work.

The videos on our Web site are certified from an independent lab (Delphi Safety Systems) which conducts the 38.1 testing for SFI, i.e. they are not our test videos and it is not our lab. We have no influence over any element of the testing.

I think the merit of Issac being attached to the belt is significant. It keeps the shoulder harnesses from falling off the shoulders and it really makes me wonder why there is no strap on shoulder harness that maintains their max spacing in a collision.

They have been tried in the past. They are frequently banned these days because they end up at the driver's throat during a collision.

The downside, and the reason I went to HANS, may be that one day that needed dexterity to release two pins on your helmet in an emergency may not exist and an emergency worker simply wont know how to release you from the belt, much less be able to reach around your helmet and blindly release the pin. Your are literally tied to your harnesses helplessly unless you can release yourself.

1. Dead drivers don't care about egress. If you lose you belts and die on impact, there is no rush to get out.

2. Getting out of the seat means nothing if you can't get out of the car. Every time a head and neck restraint has trapped a driver in a car it has been an SFI design, i.e. one the driver is forced to wear. Not some time, every time. 100% of drivers who have used both a HANS device and an ISAAC system prefer the ISAAC for ingress and egress.

3. EMTs have given up disconnecting drivers from drink tubes, radio wiring, in-helmet shift indicators and such. They just cut the belts.

[ace10]

gbaker, would you mind introducing yourself. you're using the first person in your first sentence, which implies something.

[fishguy]

no offense to gbaker, as it does seem that he works for Isaac, but IMO if F1, nascar, indy/cart, all mandate using the HANS device, then my choice is very easy.
now maybe there were some business politics involved in that choice, but people, why would anyone need to feel that those sanctioning bodies are using a device that doesnt work, or is sub-par.

I have never really looked at the Isaac device before now, but my first thought was i dont want anything keeping me attached to my belts like that.
as gbaker pointed out, if your dead ingress/egress dont matter, truth is, if i am dead, then I really dont care anymore.
with the HANS, one motion pops my belts and i am free to exit the car. i dont care how fast/slow it is to exit the car after a session, BUT, if my arse is on fire, you better believe i want the fastest release i can have to get out of the car.
as it is right now (for me), i have a buckle release, and a steering wheel to disconnect, and also a fire extinguisher to pull in this situation.
no way do I want to add ANYTHING else to the equation. if i have the choice, i want to elimininate things from the equation.
I have also tested my HANS device in a t-bone type wreck at about 45 mph.
the impact was enough to make my jaw sore for a week, but my HAN Sdid exactly what it has been advertised to do. i could feel it hold my head from whipping forward excessively.

I WILL NOT DRIVE A CAR ON THE TRACK W/O MY HANS DEVICE.

I ALSO WOULD NOT RECOMMEND ANYONE DRIVING ON TRACK W/O SOME TYPE OF H+N RESTRAINT.

I always hear the argument that i am just doing a few HPDE day a year.
this staement is made by a fool who spends money on big brake kits, and other mods to their cars, but ignores the fact that cars can be easily fixed, peoples bodies, particulary necks/spinal columns no so easily.
hind sight is 20/20. I prefer to learn from others experiences, and there is a really good reason that H=N devices are mandatory in many sanctioning bodies.
lets go to the basics;
if helmets and seat belts were not mandatory on the track, would that mean you would use them? i mean you are only doing a few HPDE days a year............... same logic goes for a H+N device, common sense says to use one, not the rules of the club.
As you can see i swear by mine. i also had a wreck a few months back where oil was kindly left on track in front of me. i ended up spinning at about 75 mph in my swift DB-1. i backed into the wall, but what the HANS device did for me was allow me to relax during the out of control ride, and allow my body to absorb the hit and come out w/o any injury from being tensed up during the impact.
HAN Snow also offers a movable teather to allow for full sideways head motion so that eliminates the argument of "I cannot move my head", which was never an issue in my sedan anyway.

HANS Isaac, whatever, just get something, your head is already a heavy ball on a small stick(neck) add in the weight of a helmet, the fact that your torso is harnessed into the seat tightly, and you can figure the rest out.
if not, then your likely not worth saving, and a candidate for "the darwin award"
Fishguy

[gbaker]

Originally Posted by ace10

gbaker, would you mind introducing yourself. you're using the first person in your first sentence, which implies something.

Sorry. Sig fixed.

[gbaker]

Fishguy,

No one is saying the HANS device doesn't work. It's simply a question of which design works best. The organizations you reference made their decision when the HANS device was the only high performance product available.

Agreed, everyone should use something. It's not like you have to by a new one every time out. Absent a crash, a good one could last decades.