It's your neck

[MyElise]

Here's another chance to think about putting proper safety equipment in your cars and on your bodies before you buy those big brake kits and CF diffusers.

Ken Payson, in the Miata, is a veteran driver with many NE divisional titles to his credit and David Brand, in the Elise, drove at the SCCA Nationals last year. The race was a National event at Lime Rock Park.

They connected when David spun coming onto No Name Straight and ended up facing traffic on the right side. Ken attempts a pass to the right on the straight and hits David head on, rides up the Elise like a ramp, rolls and lands back on his wheels. Both drivers were wearing Hans devices. I believe that David has a halo seat but it doesn't appear that Ken did. I can tell you from a minor incident that the seat makes a big difference. In compliance with SCCA regs, both cars had full cages, nets, etc.

Ken is in the hospital with a cracked C2 vertebrae in his neck.
He is OK, and expected to recover without surgery. David walked away.

YouTube - LRP Natl Ken Payson wreck Aug 2009

[kestrel74]

oh man. glad everyone is ok.... that was a bad one.

[knucklehead]

OMG! That was vicious! Glad to hear they'll be OK.

[apk919]

Did anyone notice the waving yellow at the T4 flag station?

That was very scary... I'm glad to hear that it wasn't as bad as it looked...

[Green Hornet]

Holy Crap -

That can really give one pause -

Wow

[Phantom]

Scary stuff!

Glad no one was seriously injured-

[mikester]

[fishguy]

Originally Posted by apk919

Did anyone notice the waving yellow at the T4 flag station?

that was my thought as well when i watched the video.

glad they are both OK, and were both wearing the H+N devices, that was a bad hit.
a cracked C2 could have been so much worse w/o the HANS.
I have a freind who broke C2, and is now a quadraplegic for life from it.
the < $1K is a great investment in a H+N device.

Things like that could happen in a HPDE just as easily as a race.........hopefully this will make some people think, or rethink how they approach their safety gear choices.

the right seat(proper racing seat), and a H+N device can do wonders to save your body.

didnt like watching it, but thanks for posting it.

[buzzy]

OMG is all I can think. That was head on - I can't guess at the speed.

Edit - There are photos of both cars on SCCAForums.com - Lime Rock video I'm surprised how well both cars held up in the crash.

[milehitom]

Any crash you can walk away from is a good one. Glad to see the safety equipment did its job.

Tom

[Green Hornet]

The guy in the Miata didn't walk away.

He was hauled away in an ambulance.

Amazing it wasn't worse for both drivers.

Can you imagine the guy in the Lotus as he sees the Miata coming at him at full speed and then POW... DAMN...

[dmh]

Just curious...What is Ken protecting by wearing a helmet? I can only hope his racing license has been taken away. Who wants to be on track with someone who ignores waving yellows? Talk about negligent…
I'm happy to hear David is ok.

[38bfast]

If you look close the SM was in a tight draft right behind another SM. From that position it’s very hard to see anything in front of you. I thought the same thing at first that he should have seen the yellow but then realized how hard it would be to see from that vantage point. Hope he recovers quickly. Had to be very scary for both drivers.

[dmh]

Originally Posted by 38bfast

If you look close the SM was in a tight draft right behind another SM. From that position it’s very hard to see anything in front of you. I thought the same thing at first that he should have seen the yellow but then realized how hard it would be to see from that vantage point. Hope he recovers quickly. Had to be very scary for both drivers.

Be that (Ken's red mist) as it may he still was negligent; no ifs, ands, or buts. His duty as a racer is to observe the flags. The flagger was waving the yellow in clear view; the very direction Ken took to.

[Uncle Sam]

I was wondering why it was taking so long for Fishguy to give his HANS cheer leading speech as this wreck was tailor-made for it!

One thing that is generally overlooked for those who do track days in their street Lotus is that we have airbags. You would have to have a double impact of a certain severity for a HANS to be a necessity.

Driving on a track, or on the street, has death and injury probabilities. Here is a (rhetorical) question for driving enthusiasts: Would you drive around a track for the thrill if you had no safety devices at all? Would you drive a 1957 Maserati 250F as they were driven in the day i.e. no seat belts? An MG? A risk/reward equation that has an individual answer.

[ewalberg]

That was a nasty crash. not fun to watch, but glad they're going to be okay.

considering air bags are designed for 35mph collisions, i'm not convinced it's going to be of much value in a crash at 60+mph let alone 80-100+

They would like airbags to perform at higher speeds, but at least it used to be that the violence of the explosions required to make them perform at high speeds was just too strong... ie, it was inflicting it's own injury. I know there are systems know with variable explosion force, but i don't know if they're designed around blowing lighter at speeds of 20mph (to throttle back the existing blow force for 35mph collisions) or if they're also designed to only blow up more violently at hits at greater than 35 for the purpose of trading the type of injury, but face and eye burns would likely be pretty easy to litigate on to make car companies not bother making them any more violent than to perform in a 35mph testing...

Air bags also don't do anything for ultimate vehicle structure failure.

Don't get me wrong, airbags certainly serve a purpose, i'm just not sure they'll help much in high speed situations or in cases where passenger cabin is compromised due to insufficient structural strength.

[Uncle Sam]

Originally Posted by ewalberg

That was a nasty crash. not fun to watch, but glad they're going to be okay.

considering air bags are designed for 35mph collisions, i'm not convinced it's going to be of much value in a crash at 60+mph let alone 80-100+

They would like airbags to perform at higher speeds, but at least it used to be that the violence of the explosions required to make them perform at high speeds was just too strong... ie, it was inflicting it's own injury. I know there are systems know with variable explosion force, but i don't know if they're designed around blowing lighter at speeds of 20mph (to throttle back the existing blow force for 35mph collisions) or if they're also designed to only blow up more violently at hits at greater than 35 for the purpose of trading the type of injury, but face and eye burns would likely be pretty easy to litigate on to make car companies not bother making them any more violent than to perform in a 35mph testing...

Air bags also don't do anything for ultimate vehicle structure failure.

Don't get me wrong, airbags certainly serve a purpose, i'm just not sure they'll help much in high speed situations or in cases where passenger cabin is compromised due to insufficient structural strength.

I was thinking in terms of the airbag preventing basal skull fractures. I would agree the structural aspects are a a different situation. Actually, I was thinking after seeing the video that the front of the cage would have been hit by the Miata. A similar HPDE situation with a street Lotus (no cage) and say a Mustang or GT-R (greater mass than a Miata) would probably kill the Lotus driver with or without a HANS. Life entails risk and this is a real reminder of track risks.

[85 Turbo]

I was impressed that no one lifted after passing the incident. Cold. But 2 cars behind you that you no longer need to pass. Jean Piere Sarte would have understood.
Bob

[85 Turbo]

ok, That was realy cold.

Bob

[Uncle Sam]

Originally Posted by 85 Turbo

I was impressed that no one lifted after passing the incident. Cold. But 2 cars behind you that you no longer need to pass. Jean Piere Sarte would have understood.
Bob

Thanks, now I have Eva Marie Saint's voice in my head! "Jean Pierre! JEAN PIERRE!"