Lotus Elise/Exige Challenge

[kartking]

Speedventures has a track day on Sept. 8th, 2006. There appeared to be quite a few Elises and Exiges already signed up for the event.

John from Speedventures emailed me and wanted to get an idea from this group and see how many of you will be interested to participate in a Lotus Challenge (time trial) in their future events.

[MotorCade]

Originally Posted by kartking

Speedventures has a track day on Sept. 8th, 2006. There appeared to be quite a few Elises and Exiges already signed up for the event.

John from Speedventures emailed me and wanted to get an idea from this group and see how many of you will be interested to participate in a Lotus Challenge (time trial) in their future events.

I'd be up for a time trial once I get the car sorted a bit. Got some repairs here and there to make.

[Steve W]

I may be interested also.

Cade, Clear out your private message box.

[spider]

I've run with SV since they started in late 2001. They are good bunch of people. Unfortunately, weekdays are no go for me.

[Super D]

I'd be up for it once I get the cast off my arm, and safety gear installed in the car.

[Robert]

We're having a Time Trial September 30 and October 1 in Pahrump where Elises and Exiges (with safety equipment) are welcome to participate and will be able to compare results amongst themselves for some friendly competition. We already have a few signed up and would welcome more to join. You must have some performance driving experience (though not necessarily Time Trialing).

See this thread for more info.

[fluxen]

kartking: thanks for getting this started!

Hi all. My name is John Wurth and together with Aaron Bitterman we run the Speed Ventures events. We've long had what we call our Challenge Series, which are make/model-specific series where we class cars more tightly than in our General Classifications to create a place for fun, light-hearted comparison between drivers of the same model. For the past few years we've had classes for Corvettes, S2000s, Miatas and Evos, and the numbers of Elise/Exiges we're seeing suggests to me that it's time for a Lotus series.

The first step is to come up with a provisional classing system which gives us a starting point to work from. The events from now through the end of the year will be used to refine the classing system, which should then be pretty solid for 2007. An exampe of such a system, the S2000 classing, is below. I believe this should be the starting point for the Elise/Exige Challenge, as I imagine we'll call it. Some of this won't apply to the Loti, of course, but we'll just cut those mods/issues out. Keep in mind I'm no Lotus expert, so I don't necessarily know what doesn't apply, so feel free to point stuff out!

Oh, I should probably say up front that I do have a dog in this hunt, as I bought the former Goliath Exige last Thursday.

Anyway, without further ado, our starting point:

No changes are allowed to a car unless they are listed below. If a component or other modification is listed below, any type (or size) of that component is allowed, unless otherwise noted (ie. "sway bar" means adjustable or non-adjustable allowed).

If you have a question about any modification, please contact Aaron (mailto:aaron@speedventures.com).

This classification system is subject to change because people always find sneaky little loop holes.


Elise / Exige Challenge Classing Rev C

STOCK
Tires: up to 255 width rear tire, 120+ treadwear
Stock wheels only
Alignment – any setting
Any brake pad
Any modification to stock rotors (cryotreating, etc.)
Any brake fluid
Brake ducting allowed
Brakelines
Any air filter
Any cat-back exhaust
Any clutch
Strut-tower brace
Rear brace
Thermostat
Radiator cap
Heat Shield
Rollbars, seats, or any other safety equipment allowed, including Toe-links
Weight savings: seats can be removed or replaced, plastic necessary to install rollbar or other safety equipment can be removed, tools can be removed. Nothing else can be removed.
Accusump
Baffled Oil Pan
Yokohama A048 are allowed in stock...but that might change

Elise's are allowed 30pts from the MOD list below in STOCK, to make up for Exige aerodynamic advantage

MODIFIED
All STOCK mods allowed.
Hoosier/V710 + coilover combination bumps car up to UNLIMITED.
Up to 200 pts allowed from below (note, I changed some points around):

Turbocharger 100
Supercharger 100
Internal Mods to stock motor 100
Hoosiers or Kumho V710 100
Transmission Mods/replacement 75
Coilovers (shocks & springs) 75
Spec Competition Tires 50
Active Rear Wing 40
Rear Wing/Spoiler (OEM Exige wing included) 25
Shocks (w/stock springs) 25
ECU/Ignition Control 25
Remove Catalytic Converter 25
Final Drive gear change 25
Differential 25
Hardtop 25
Wheels wider than LSS (7 or 7.5"?) 20
Springs (w/stock shocks only) 20
Any Changes to Stock Brakes 20
Front end/aerodynamics (non-OEM) 20
Non-wing rear end aero (for instance, a non-OEMdiffuser. Stock diffuser is free, as we all have one.) 15
Any Intake 15
VVTL/Air Fuel Control (piggybacking) 15
Front swaybar (including Track pack) 15
Rear swaybar 10
Flywheel 10
Header 10
Any removal of interior panels, carpeting, windows etc. not necessary for some valid reason (decreasing weight does not count as "a valid reason", a fancy stereo system does) 10
Removal of Air Conditioning Unit 5
Any front bumper (non-aero) 5
Any rear bumper (non-aero) 5
ANY ROLLBAR PROVIDING INCREASE IN SAFETY OVER STOCK -10 pts
TOE-LINK REPLACEMENT, BECAUSE IT'S A SAFETY MOD -5 pts
Sequential Shifter / Transmission 50 pts

* Spec Competition tires are: Kumho Victoracer/Ecsta V700; Toyo RA-1; Yokohama A032r, Yokohama A046, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup. Max width rear for all tires = 255.


UNLIMITED
(Anything goes) Car must be based on production Elise / Exige Chassis and have production-based 2ZZ engine block.

No changes are allowed to a car unless they are listed above. If a component or other modification is listed, any type (or size) of that component is allowed, unless otherwise noted (ie. "sway bar" means adjustable or non-adjustable allowed).

If you have a question about any modification, please contact John (mailto:john@speedventures.com).

This classification system is subject to change because people always find sneaky little loop holes.

ANY MODIFICATION NOT LISTED ABOVE MUST BE REPORTED BEFORE AN EVENT OR YOU MAY BE DISQUALIFIED. THOSE MODIFICATIONS BELIEVED TO PROVIDE PERFORMANCE ADVANTAGES WILL BE ASCRIBED POINTS BEFORE CARS GO ON TRACK. * Spec Competition tires are any of the four make/models listed here, no others. Allowed make/models are: Nitto NT01; Kumho Victoracer/Ecsta V700; Toyo RA-1; Yokohama A032r or A048, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup. Max width rear for all tires = 255.

ANY MODIFICATION NOT LISTED ABOVE MUST BE REPORTED BEFORE AN EVENT OR YOU MAY BE DISQUALIFIED. THOSE MODIFICATIONS BELIEVED TO PROVIDE PERFORMANCE ADVANTAGES WILL BE ASCRIBED POINTS BEFORE CARS GO ON TRACK.

Edited 9-6-2006 to reflect changes.
Edited 9-11-2006 to reflect Baffled Oil pan in stock and Sequential.
Last edited 9-14-2006 to reflect 255 max tire size, added Yokos to spec tires.

Changes are in bold to make it easier to keep track of.

[spider]

Originally Posted by fluxen

... as I bought the former Goliath Exige last Thursday.

Congrats on the purchase, John.

[lundgren]

Huge gap between stock and modified.

[kartking]

John,

It looks like this Friday , we will have about 9 Lotus in the event. Maybe you can give us the details that day.




Kalvin

[fluxen]

KK: I wish I could, but my wife's having a medical test this Friday, so I won't make this one.

I do, however, think there's no problem with retroactively applying whatever we come up with to this Friday's results, and we'll see how it goes. Ideally, I think the Buttonwillow 3-day would be a great place to hopefully get a good size group together and kind of kick the whole thing off. Many guys can't make weekday events and all.

[fluxen]

Originally Posted by lundgren

Huge gap between stock and modified.

True, but then that's why they're two different classes. I guess you mean it seems like there should be a class between the two, but really, 200 pts goes pretty fast. However, if the pts need to be adjusted, we'll adjust them.

I am thinking that since half (or more than half) of our cars came with DOT-R tires from the factory, we should probably allow them in Stock. If so, we would reduce MOD allowable pts by at least 50 to balance that out.

What do you guys think about allowing any of the "spec tires" in Stock?

[NoKarbs]

Speed Ventures always always do (does?) a fine job, looking forward to seeing many more Elises/Exiges at their events...organized, not anal...

Any stock tire should be within spec, the new Track Packs should add points...

[fluxen]

Agree on track pack: it should add pts to the sum of it's parts, for instance the sway bar is +15 pts.

My thought on the "Spec" DOT-Rs is that you shouldn't limit them to the Yokos. Why limit people to the Yokos when they're inferrior to other DOT-Rs and cost more to boot? I agree, it's theoretically "fairer" to the guy who comes to his first event on Yokos, but if he really cares about doing the events he'd prefer to use the cheaper and better alternatives out there. At least that's what I'd prefer

[ZJChaser]

definately interested. I've run some of your events in my old miata, will be showing up in the Exige now. Can't make it this friday though. Damn you guys taking 3 day work weeks?

[David]

Shouldn't the Exige and the Elise be classed separately given the Exige's superior ground effects?

[fluxen]

Well, the reality is the two cars are very close. The Elise should actually be faster on tracks where you average less than say 80mph, and the Exige on faster tracks. Remember, the Exige is not only at least 30lbs heavier, but most of that weight is very high up on the car (which is bad), and it has a greater drag penalty with no payoff on slower tracks. The other issue is that if we put them in different classes, well, now we have Exige classes with 1-3 cars if we're lucky, and what's the point in that?

IMHO, the cars are not different enough to justify two different classes. However, what we can do is offer the Elise drivers an equalizer for the perceived discrepency. Elise's could get, for instance 30 pts in each class that the Exige's don't get, or something similar. The Elise owners could spend those points as they wish, whether that be aero or power mods or whatever. I think that would be a good solution to the question.

Ultimately though, as the cars stand stock, I would say the Elise has a slight advantage at Streets of Willow Springs, and the Exige at the big track at Willow. But the difference is slight. I think Lotus used some serious fudging to come up with their "2 seconds at Heathel" number.

[David]

Originally Posted by fluxen

Well, the reality is the two cars are very close. The Elise should actually be faster on tracks where you average less than say 80mph, and the Exige on faster tracks. Remember, the Exige is not only at least 30lbs heavier, but most of that weight is very high up on the car (which is bad), and it has a greater drag penalty with no payoff on slower tracks. The other issue is that if we put them in different classes, well, now we have Exige classes with 1-3 cars if we're lucky, and what's the point in that?

IMHO, the cars are not different enough to justify two different classes. However, what we can do is offer the Elise drivers an equalizer for the perceived discrepency. Elise's could get, for instance 30 pts in each class that the Exige's don't get, or something similar. The Elise owners could spent those points as they wish, whether that be aero or power mods or whatever. I think that would be a good solution to the question.

Ultimately though, as the cars stand stock, I would say the Elise has a slight advantage at Streets of Willow Springs, and the Exige at the big track at Willow. But the difference is slight. I think Lotus used some serious fudging to come up with their "2 seconds at Heathel" number.

Sounds fair. I had in mind the Riverside turn at Buttonwillow which I think the Exige would really grip. It will be interesting to see how the cars actually line up. Mainly I'm just grumpy about the fact that once I can no longer resist entering the Elise/Exige challenge, you're going to royally kick my ass--in an Elise or an Exige, or a Miata. I got a ride with Aaron last month at Buttonwillow, and he was able to do things with that with his Miata that I haven't the spleen to attempt. But you've named your Exige Goliath. I'm David. Maybe I have a shot.

Aftermarket springs, like Ohlins, Nitrons and Penskes, are a pretty common upgrade (one I haven't made at this point), as are front swaybars. Should those be allowed in Stock? There has also been much discussion on this board about weak toe-links--for which there are several remedies. I would very much want such remedies to be allowed in the Stock category--even required--since the toe links have been known to fail under heavy tracking conditions.

[fluxen]

Originally Posted by David

I had in mind the Riverside turn at Buttonwillow which I think the Exige would really grip.

Well, you're right, the exige will have a advantage in that turn, although small, since neither car will go through there faster than about 90 mph, and there's not much downforce at that point...but the Elise has the edge in Star Mazda and the Buttonhook (or "A" turn), so I'd say it's probably pretty even.

Originally Posted by David

Mainly I'm just grumpy about the fact that once I can no longer resist entering the Elise/Exige challenge, you're going to royally kick my ass--in an Elise or an Exige, or a Miata. I got a ride with Aaron last month at Buttonwillow, and he was able to do things with that with his Miata that I haven't the spleen to attempt.

Aaron is crazier than I am But honestly, the amazing thing about SV is how fast drivers develop when they've got the combination of timing to compare their approaches, more experienced drivers to help you find lost time, and lots and lots of laps. Seriously there are people driving with us who, in the same car as me, were 20 seconds a lap slower a year or so ago, and now they're right there with me. It's amazing how fast you can develop.

Originally Posted by David

But you've named your Exige Goliath. I'm David. Maybe I have a shot.

I didn't name my car Goliath, that was the name of the company of the guy who owned it before, hence my reference to it as the "former Goliath Exige" I'd probably name it something more like Beatrice, if I were the type to name my cars

Originally Posted by David

Aftermarket springs, like Ohlins, Nitrons and Penskes, are a pretty common upgrade (one I haven't made at this point), as are front swaybars. Should those be allowed in Stock? There has also been much discussion on this board about weak toe-links--for which there are several remedies. I would very much want such remedies to be allowed in the Stock category--even required--since the toe links have been known to fail under heavy tracking conditions.

Aftermarket springs, for instance, aren't going to do much on their own. We could allow minimal things like that in Stock, but it'd have to have a low pt limit, like under 50. We really don't want a Stock class where people with truely stock cars can't be competitive. I'll have to think about that; there are pros and cons. However, once you start doing something like Ohlins, no way you're in stock now. That's clearly a high-value mod that belongs in the MOD class.

Safety items like toelinks will be free, or even awarded a -5 value, to make it attractive to people to do the mod. We won't make safety items cost you pts, as we would never want to put people into that situation.

[MotorCade]

Originally Posted by fluxen

Well, you're right, the exige will have a advantage in that turn, although small, since neither car will go through there faster than about 90 mph, and there's not much downforce at that point...but the Elise has the edge in Star Mazda and the Buttonhook (or "A" turn), so I'd say it's probably pretty even.

I've seen plenty of elises, including my own, run through riverside at 110+ on A048s or equivalent. The exige will have a clear edge through there, and on any other sweepers, as well as s-turns. The Elise will have an edge on very slow corners that lead onto long straights.


Cade