[NORCAL] Anyone going to HoD's Aug 14th @ Thunderhill?

[SteveLevin]

Someone with more Lotus seat time can probably give the right answer there... without being in the car, the only thing I can suggest is that you might be able to carry 4th in T2, unless you are flat in 3rd, which I am guessing that you aren't (or you'd run out of revs earlier).

My entry into T2 is a racing entry; that is, I am more concerned generally about someone diving inside of me there, so you see me turn in towards the painted line, and that's where I brake, then as soon as I am off the brake I am jumping on the gas to get weight onto the tail and I am flat on the power all the way around (but again, the SRF has considerably less power...about 99whp).

T3 you want to be feeding in the power as you go round the hill. If the tail gets light, feed in MORE power and really set the car on the left rear wheel. As you exit T3, as soon as the suspension sets level, typically for me just past the painted kerb, that's when I turn in left, and in an SRF, I ideally nail the throttle from there and slide the car right up to that outside exit kerbing (in the video laps I wasn't going quite fast enough to get out there, but down into the 2:04 laptime range you will be out to the kerbing every time)

T5 is again a brake early against the hill, and then turn and apply power. In a Lotus you will definitely be feeding in the power coming down the hill, and how far you drift off the inside edge will depend on conditions/tire/etc.

It sounds more complicated than it is...with practice it all makes sense.

Steve

[LarryB]

T3- with a mid-engine car like the Elise you can and should stay inside. The wider you go the more off-camber it gets. T2- caught a ride with a quicker and more aggressive Elise driver then me. He's taking it in 3rd gear. In 4th your a little too much off the power band, at least with the N/A motor.

T5- on the downhill I treat it a bit like the corkscrew at Laguna Seca. Pause for a moment and as the suspension loads up feed in lots of power. I've yet to run with a group that has done the bypass- understand it's a rather high speed and somewhat off-camber.

[deddie]

I take T2 in third and hit 4th as I exit (approaching the paint on the right).

[deddie]

Originally Posted by LarryB

T3- with a mid-engine car like the Elise you can and should stay inside. The wider you go the more off-camber it gets. T2- caught a ride with a quicker and more aggressive Elise driver then me. He's taking it in 3rd gear. In 4th your a little too much off the power band, at least with the N/A motor.

I definitely agree with (and use) the tight line against the curbing going around T3. The variations I see at T3 relate to where you start to turn. I generally see drivers starting the turn tight to the right (inside) and in the middle. For track days, I am a big believer in the entrance from the left (outside) as it is flat and the car stays compliant. You can get more mid-corner speed with this line, without upsetting the car. I can see racers not wanting this line as it invites someone to pass you on the inside.

[LarryB]

It's been a good 10 months since I've been to Thunderhill. Hope to make it out again in the next few months. Don't think I've been starting my turn-in for T3 from very deep on the outside. I'll keep it in mine and try it out next time around. Thanks for the tip.

[Kingsol]

Thanks for all your tips. I've been taking T2 in third and then coasting as soon as i reach the curbing on the right, but I'll try to get into fourth. From there I get to the middle of the beginning of T3 then gradually squeeze and hold the inside line as soon as I see the white curbing. I'm not racing, so I guess I should be all the way to the left instead at the beginning of T3?

NCRC runs the bypass on Sundays and it feels like a more dramatic T3. T5 really unweights the suspension quite significantly, and I'm currently approaching on the far left, shooting for the middle at the top, then squeezing inside at the bottom. Are you guys braking for T5 at all or just letting off early? I can't imagine taking an inside line like in T3 would be better, right?

[SteveLevin]

On a quick lap -- even a modest lap -- you should be going through T4 with more than enough power to require using the brakes for 5 (I am assuming no bypass).

I've driven the bypass just once (about 4 laps) and it was enough to make me think I didn't like it; at speed, if you make a mistake at entry, you have a very long time to think about just how bad the wreck at the exit is going to be

Steve

[deddie]

Originally Posted by Kingsol

From there I get to the middle of the beginning of T3 then gradually squeeze and hold the inside line as soon as I see the white curbing. I'm not racing, so I guess I should be all the way to the left instead at the beginning of T3?

Give the left entrance a shot - you may like it, or you may not. Car setup will help determine if this works for you. I have Nitrons with 525/650 springs and I run Advan slicks (A005), so my car transitions with minimal disruption. This enables me to exit T2 on the right, floor it in 4th, and swing back to the left to enter T3. With a softer setup (with less grip), this may not be so easy to accomplish.

Originally Posted by Kingsol

T5 really unweights the suspension quite significantly, and I'm currently approaching on the far left, shooting for the middle at the top, then squeezing inside at the bottom. Are you guys braking for T5 at all or just letting off early? I can't imagine taking an inside line like in T3 would be better, right?

I always approach the entrance of T5 from the far right, and run my front left wheel slightly over the white curbing on the left as I begin the downhill run. This enables me to shoot straight down, while staying near the right. I am full throttle down the hill, maintenance throttle for a very brief time at the bottom of the hill, and then full throttle during the finish of T5B and exit towards T6. You should feel the back end sliding out as you are finishing T5B.

[Mr. Know]

Originally Posted by deddie

I always approach the entrance of T5 from the far right, and run my front left wheel slightly over the white curbing on the left as I begin the downhill run. This enables me to shoot straight down, while staying near the right. I am full throttle down the hill, maintenance throttle for a very brief time at the bottom of the hill, and then full throttle during the finish of T5B and exit towards T6. You should feel the back end sliding out as you are finishing T5B.

This is my T5 line also, although I don't carry enough speed to feel the back end sliding to finish T5B (a?). I know I hit the apex for T5 right when I feel a slight bump.

I'm not so sure my car likes the left entrance to T3. I'm thinking that's the time I got loose, I took a more mid-left entrance and was carrying more speed. But then again, maybe it was the more speed factor.

Seeing Steve's line on T2, I now understand what my instructor was saying about "school line" vs. "racing line" for that turn. School line has to be faster, but allows someone to get inside you in a racing situation correct?

Originally Posted by SteveLevin

Sorry I missed it...I cam home Thursday evening to a cloud of smoke...cracked an oil line to the turbo Normally, I would have just grabbed the motorhome and driven it up...but it's at Camping World being gussied up (since this is one of the rare downtime gaps in the summer racing season).

Its no worries. I asked for you when we were being assigned coaches, but figured something came up since you weren't there. I assumed you were in Monterey, actually.

[khamai]

Originally Posted by Mr. Know

Seeing Steve's line on T2, I now understand what my instructor was saying about "school line" vs. "racing line" for that turn. School line has to be faster, but allows someone to get inside you in a racing situation correct?

Racing Line = double apex. Just as fast if not faster. More difficult to be smooth because you're trail braking. As you suggest it is also a defensive line to block a competitor from diving inside of you under brakes.

Typically momentum cars are faster sweeping the corner (School Line) so as to carry more speed through the corner. Whereas big engine cars will do better with a double apex ("Diamond" the corner), where you dive into the corner, slow way down, rotate the car and "launch" out of the corner.

T2 at Laguna is another corner that you can either sweep (late apex) or double apex.

It's about accentuating the strengths of the car.

Cheers,
Kiyoshi

[SteveLevin]

Originally Posted by Mr. Know

Seeing Steve's line on T2, I now understand what my instructor was saying about "school line" vs. "racing line" for that turn. School line has to be faster, but allows someone to get inside you in a racing situation correct?

Exactly... if you take the wider line there in a race, I'll just turn in and take the line you saw and brake as crazy deep as possible...even if the car is slithering around and I go deep, I have a lot of room to play with out there, and I also end up jamming you up on the exit with whatever poor exit speed I get because -- even in unequal cars -- it would be a challenge to out-drag me to T3 to be able to retake the inside line; and you can't take the outside line at T3 at speed.

And in truth, the total difference in speed in the corner is very fractional; something like .1/lap, so it's not worth building anything other than the muscle memory and habits of the racing line.

Steve