Is this normal for beginner track practice???

[ANIMAL]

Hi guys,

So, I was looking for a track thats local to me that provides drivers school to learn how to drive a car around a track. Luckily, I have a track thats only 30min away and seems to have a really good/fun course. I talked to a guy at work that has taken the level 1 drivers ed. course and it sounded awesome. He even had some video of him on the track. I was sold until I saw what was behind him. Other cars?? Now i'm a complete noob when it comes to track driving (I've never done it), but I would think that you would run the course by yourself so you can learn it. I mean I love my shiney new lotus too much to have it run with 5-10 others on a course where EVERYONE is a beginner. I honestly thought that you would do a few laps with the instructor with no other cars on the track. I heard the instructor does come with you on the drive for a few, but still I would think you have the track to yourself for the first class (taking turns with the other students of course).

Am I weird or is this just the normal thing? See the thing is I don't want to race my car at all. All I want to learn is how to drive a car on a track (apex/braking/accel) and be in my lotus so it makes me learn my car at the same time. I was curious what you guys experience on your first drivers course. Did they throw you onto the track with other people who also have no clue how to drive?

[apk919]

Originally Posted by ANIMAL

Hi guys,

So, I was looking for a track thats local to me that provides drivers school to learn how to drive a car around a track. Luckily, I have a track thats only 30min away and seems to have a really good/fun course. I talked to a guy at work that has taken the level 1 drivers ed. course and it sounded awesome. He even had some video of him on the track. I was sold until I saw what was behind him. Other cars?? Now i'm a complete noob when it comes to track driving (I've never done it), but I would think that you would run the course by yourself so you can learn it. I mean I love my shiney new lotus too much to have it run with 5-10 others on a course where EVERYONE is a beginner. I honestly thought that you would do a few laps with the instructor with no other cars on the track. I heard the instructor does come with you on the drive for a few, but still I would think you have the track to yourself for the first class (taking turns with the other students of course).

Am I weird or is this just the normal thing? See the thing is I don't want to race my car at all. All I want to learn is how to drive a car on a track (apex/braking/accel) and be in my lotus so it makes me learn my car at the same time. I was curious what you guys experience on your first drivers course. Did they throw you onto the track with other people who also have no clue how to drive?

Normal, as long as there are well defined rules on passing zones and passing etiquette, and proper enforcement of the rules. There should also be some kind of feedback sessions with the instructors/supervisors after the sessions to report and/or receive feedback.

Frankly, if you're nervous about the conditions on track, either talk to someone who's run with them before, or just observe one of their sessions in person before taking your car on track. If you still feel uncomfortable, don't do it.

EDIT: There should also be sufficient flaggers to cover the whole track, and all beginners should be given instruction on what the flags mean and how to react to them properly.

[milehitom]

"No clue?" No, your fellow noobs will, of course, have driver's licenses, so they'll have some clue about their cars' handling, but many could have zero track experience. Everybody has to start somewhere, after all. It would be quite expensive to rent a track all for yourself, but it can be done.

Having others drivers on the track 9all at safe intervals from one another) helps you to learn situational awareness right from the start. A big part of the learning curve is HPDE etiquette...how to let a faster car by and where to do it; how to enter a hot track, stuff like that. Instructors are very good at quickly assessing a person's individual skill and comfort levels.

Get an instructor you feel a good rapport with and you'll be fine. They won't let out in the deep end until they think you can swim.

Have fun!

Tom

[spectre]

Usually you run with other cars so that's normal.

If you are apprehensive, you can always go to a school where you drive their cars to see if you like the experience and if something happens...it's their car. Really that's why I did the lotus driving at spring mountain. You use their cars and it's in an environment were you learn all the basic principles, plus lead / follow, instructor in car or solo, etc. It totally will hook you on the experience. I know you said that you won't track it but I have a feeling you will once you get the experience in and you will be driving your car.

Now I'm in advanced groupings and really I get so excited and pumped for the experience of it as it totally takes your mind off everything else as you get so focused. After a weekend, I feel relaxed and drained. It truly is great stuff.

[fitfan]

pefectly normal - what makes it safe (or unsafe) is how the event is run...

thing you want to ask:

-mandatory in car instructors with solo by sign off only.
-mandatory drivers meeting.
-corner workes/flags in visual sight of the next corner worker up, and down, track.
-tech inspection, at a minimun they should require you to submit a tech form, and they should take a fair 5 mins looking over the car, torq. wheels, check for anything loose, check pads, fluid, flashlight for leaks etc..
-helemt inspection, SA rated (probably 2000 or 2005)
-if there is not an ambulance at the track, they care about saving money and not people.
-4 point roll bar for convert/targa top cars.
-mandatory pit after an "off"
-madatory black flag for the day after X number of offs (usally 2 gets a good talking too, 3 get you suspended for the day kinda thing)
-and the passing rules andy mentioned, onlt in designated areas, only with a point by from the slower car.

pit in and out - should be by the direction of pit man only - who only lets you out only when the tower (they should have people in that...) clears the pit man to let a car out. (there was a very bad death in socal a few years back due to not observiing this very basic rule) - reason is a good pit will have a barrier wall to the track - you can't see... the pit man, could be distracted.. but if the tower confirms, and the pit confirms, and then directs you out - it makes re-entering hot laps very safe.

if they enforoce these things above - it is suprisingly safe to run on a track with other people that may also have no track experaince. - i would argue it safer than driving on the highway with people txting, eating, drunk, sleeping...

if they do not enforce these things - you have to ask yourself if you want to assume the risk of an enviroment that does not make an effort to be safe and organized.

its your car, your life, your responsability. the event just facilitates (or not!) safety.

...the in car instructor will teach you the line and braking zones etc... no big deal. more importanlty they will teach how and when and when not to pass, what to do in an off, how to enter and exit the pits - basic track "manners". another thing.. the intructors are also watching the other cars, and will report bad behavior - a basket case (should not) last long in a well run event. they will be spoted out very early, talked to - intructor switch if needed, and just dimissed if they keep un safe habits. too bad that doesn't happen on the highway!

[BRTHTAKR]

As we learn how to be consistent and predictable we can move up to other levels and can expect other drivers to be consistent and predictable. That is a big advantage of moving up. Beginners deserve a reasonable safe berth, especially when exiting turns: don't want to run up behind them when it is touchy to back off.
I have just moved to level three with NASA and PCA this last year. I look to be polite and sportsmanlike and watch other guys who just plain drive better than me. The really fun part is when you find another driver/car that you are pretty well matched with. Great way to meet someone and enjoy driving as a sport, and to appreciate just how much there is to it.

[RichS]

Originally Posted by ANIMAL

I talked to a guy at work that has taken the level 1 drivers ed. course and it sounded awesome.

Is this a track in Austin TX?

(And yes, it is very normal to have multiple folks on the track learning how to drive on a track.)

[Slipstreamer]

Nothing wrong in renting the track all to yourself (it'll cost you a little bit more...)

[tomrev]

Yeah, my thought's exactly. Have any idea of what a track costs to rent for the day? Normal driver's day will have four run groups; with only one car each, you might find a track you could run for $1K per day, not counting the costs for corner worker's. ambulance/ fire saftey crew, etc, etc. This is not a cheap activity. If need be, take the mirror off the car for the first sessions, stay to the right on the straights, and point out the window.

[Addictedto]

If you take the car out on any highway or do any kind of "canyon carving" your in a much more dangerous environment than an HPDE. As apprehensive as you seem in your post, I'd suggest an arrive and drive, or go pick up a cheap beater and abuse that on the track to learn and then when you are more comfortable take the lotus out. Everything you learn in a beater car will carry over to the Lotus when your ready.

[LordZ]

Originally Posted by ANIMAL

Hi guys,

So, I was looking for a track thats local to me that provides drivers school to learn how to drive a car around a track. Luckily, I have a track thats only 30min away and seems to have a really good/fun course. I talked to a guy at work that has taken the level 1 drivers ed. course and it sounded awesome. He even had some video of him on the track. I was sold until I saw what was behind him. Other cars?? Now i'm a complete noob when it comes to track driving (I've never done it), but I would think that you would run the course by yourself so you can learn it. I mean I love my shiney new lotus too much to have it run with 5-10 others on a course where EVERYONE is a beginner. I honestly thought that you would do a few laps with the instructor with no other cars on the track. I heard the instructor does come with you on the drive for a few, but still I would think you have the track to yourself for the first class (taking turns with the other students of course).

Am I weird or is this just the normal thing? See the thing is I don't want to race my car at all. All I want to learn is how to drive a car on a track (apex/braking/accel) and be in my lotus so it makes me learn my car at the same time. I was curious what you guys experience on your first drivers course. Did they throw you onto the track with other people who also have no clue how to drive?

First track day ever, in the Lotus. Motorsport Ranch 3.1 mile (big track). Probably 30 other "green" students out there with me. Instructor (a fellow lotus owner) drove 2 laps with me as passenger then I got to drive. This was done on a yellow lap, no passing, low speed, no helmets. More of a parade lap than anything. As a green student I had an instructor the entire time as well a everyone else on track with me. I never once felt unsafe or worried that someone else would hit me.

7 more 25minute sessions over the next two days plus 4-6 classroom lessons. All in all a great time and got me hooked. Only thing I would recommend against is a large track like MSR with tons of turns as your first event. I was lost until the last session of the last day.

If you want to drive a track by yourself I'm sure you can pay a couple thousand and rent it... But without the instruction it wouldn't do you much good. Driving on the track isn't like driving on the street and most everything you need to know is counter intuitive.

My advice is to go to an event as a spectator and just see how it's ran.

[AJElise]

Animal,
Like all the posts above, it is normal to have other cars on track with you...Find a good organization to run with. They will have trained instructors that typically drive a similar car to yours so the advice is useful.
Costs are typically $300-$500 per weekend for a track event.

NASA Pro Racing Site News & Content (HPDE Events)
SCCA Sports Car Club of America (local regions have PDX events)
Car Guys' High Performance Driving School
Chin MotorSports - More Tracks, More Track Time!
www.trackdaze.com

I instruct with most of the groups above (on East Coast), they are all well run and all fun groups.

Don't worry about the others, the focus should be you and your car. Be sure you have all your fluids changed/refreshed and bolts checked (tightened). Come with a positive attitude and ready to have fun. A good instructor will be able to evaluate your basic skills and help you develop as a driver over the day/weekend...

I've had ~ 40 students, been through a few spins and off track excursions, but never close to having contact with a wall or other car.

The biggest problem is after your first track day in the Lotus, you'll be cruising the internet looking for more events; I think it's about as addictive as a Crack habit

[tko211]

Yup this is very normal. People ask me this same question to me all the time when they learn that I have been to the track. IS it safe? Will it hurt the car? What about the other drivers?... Bottom line is that is far safer than daily driving with all kinds of idiots and without supervision.

Go to the track with confidence knowing that it's far and away safer than the risks you take to drive yourself to the track!

[38bfast]

Just use your head. Drive with your brain turned on. Check your ego at the gate and don't overdrive you limits. You will be fine.

[Randy Chase]

I would also suggest looking into autocrossing for a relatively safe way to learn car control.

[PECivil]

2nd the idea of doing autox first.
not only will you love it, but you will learn some car control prior to going out on the track which is good experience and very safe

[apk919]

3rd the idea of auto-x.

Even when you take a serious racing school, i.e. Skip Barber, the car control clinic is usually taught on an auto-x course, not a full scale racetrack. It's always better to make your mistakes at low speeds, taking out cones, than it is to make your mistakes in high speed corners, taking out tire walls...

[shokwaves]

If you are a zillionaire and can rent the track for your self, but most likely not. This is normal and very safe. Go for it, you'll have a blast.

[Assman]

I would say just make sure they put an instructor with all the novice groups. The only track event I went to that was a dangerous horror show was an alfa romeo event at road america - instructors were optional, 8 people crashed (one crashed on the parade lunch time lap with a 70 mph speed limit, no helmets and we were allowed to bring our kids!!!) Worst event ever! I would never again drive with a disorganized club.

[NMRJock]

You can also do a private school like Bertil Roos or Skip Barber or similar. That will get you out on the track progressively with a lot of instruction and in somebody else's car.