Streets of Willow - Race prepped Elise – Observations! - LotusTalk

rackhenry · 10-21-2009, 03:59 PM

So I just took a racing school at Streets of Willow with F1K racing and wanted to share some observations. First taking professional lessons is so different than DE lessons, wow! Many thanks to Matt Treglia for a fantastic day, I cannot say enough how much it was the best money I have spent recently!

Some context on my skills, (30 track days doing mostly DE).The biggest surprise to me though was the car itself! This was a 2006 Elise with race setup on slicks. I have been reading on the forum about how the car could be unforgiving etc. I found that to be not really true, for one the car was easy to throw into corners, I even lifted on purpose to get it to rotate in some corners, a little at first but as I kept going, I eventually dropped throttle hard, expecting a full break away, just nice rotation..

. Heck even on the chicane where I entered too hot and with too much steering angle the backend got loose at 80 + mph ( off camber downhill), just required a little correction with steering. Now I am not saying in that same off camber turn, if I lifted to begin with the car would not have spun, but any car would have. An honestly the fact I was able to stop the slide and recover is a testament to the car not my mad skills…

I guess I found the car to be very forgiving and nowhere near as dramatic as I thought it would be. Is it the slicks that make such a huge difference? Setup?

f1kracingschools · 10-21-2009, 08:03 PM

Thanks David for attending our Course A out at Willow Springs. It was a pleasure teaching you the advanced techniques that you have just learned. I will be calling you with tips on how to attack Buttonwillow Raceway this weekend. You will do very well there on the 13 clockwise loop. You have alot of potential to move forward and accomplish the goals that you're after.
We will stay in contact with you through your driver developement program and I hope to see you racing with us in the Lotus Challenge Series next year.

Best Regards,

Matt Treglia

F1K Racing Schools

661-212-9801

apk919 · 10-21-2009, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rackhenry

...

I guess I found the car to be very forgiving and nowhere near as dramatic as I thought it would be. Is it the slicks that make such a huge difference? Setup?

Setup. Much more than tires... (although having the right setup for your tires is pretty important too)

rackhenry · 10-22-2009, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f1kracingschools

Thanks David for attending our Course A out at Willow Springs. It was a pleasure teaching you the advanced techniques that you have just learned. I will be calling you with tips on how to attack Buttonwillow Raceway this weekend. You will do very well there on the 13 clockwise loop. You have alot of potential to move forward and accomplish the goals that you're after.
We will stay in contact with you through your driver developement program and I hope to see you racing with us in the Lotus Challenge Series next year.

Best Regards,

Matt Treglia

F1K Racing Schools

661-212-9801

Thanks for the feedback Matt. I am looking forward to Buttowillow with my newly acquired skills.

rackhenry · 10-22-2009, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apk919

Setup. Much more than tires... (although having the right setup for your tires is pretty important too)

Andy,

I guess I was expecting the car to want to change directions a lot more... based on what I read here.. as in the "back end" wanting to go forward:

. To my surprise it was nothing like that.

I now know I can throw this car around quite a bit more, push it harder, slide it at the limits and not have this crazy notion that if I "lift" "even somewhat" the car will spin like a top.

kmarshall · 10-23-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rackhenry

Andy,

I guess I was expecting the car to want to change directions a lot more... based on what I read here.. as in the "back end" wanting to go forward:

. To my surprise it was nothing like that.

I now know I can throw this car around quite a bit more, push it harder, slide it at the limits and not have this crazy notion that if I "lift" "even somewhat" the car will spin like a top.

I'm glad you enjoyed it... Matt is a great guy and a great driver. Lotus's are so stable in part due to the amazing corner balance they have from the factory. Porsche or Ferrari's will be much more sensitive to lifts due to a their balance which is not as good as the little aluminum tubbed Lotus. I'm not bashing those cars as I drive and have raced those too... but the Lotus is just cool. I had the same surprise with the cars when I first drove them too. Have fun! Come join the R3 crew at LCS!

Jack · 10-23-2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f1kracingschools

Thanks David for attending our Course A out at Willow Springs. It was a pleasure teaching you the advanced techniques that you have just learned. I will be calling you with tips on how to attack Buttonwillow Raceway this weekend. You will do very well there on the 13 clockwise loop. You have alot of potential to move forward and accomplish the goals that you're after.
We will stay in contact with you through your driver developement program and I hope to see you racing with us in the Lotus Challenge Series next year.

Best Regards,

Matt Treglia

F1K Racing Schools

661-212-9801

Matt, you're suck a KA

...... love you man.

Matt is the best

... he even instructs at some of my private track days.

rackhenry · 10-25-2009, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmarshall

I'm glad you enjoyed it... Matt is a great guy and a great driver. Lotus's are so stable in part due to the amazing corner balance they have from the factory. Porsche or Ferrari's will be much more sensitive to lifts due to a their balance which is not as good as the little aluminum tubbed Lotus. I'm not bashing those cars as I drive and have raced those too... but the Lotus is just cool. I had the same surprise with the cars when I first drove them too. Have fun! Come join the R3 crew at LCS!

Just got done with Buttonwillow and wish Matt was there to coach me there also. However, I was able to put some of my newly found skills to use and actually got a decent lap time...

. This time driving my own car without slicks and stock LSS suspension. Love buttonwillow and love the Exige even more. Funny it is actually a bit hard for me to throttle steer the car it is so well balanced... Bit worried about trail braking still...

I want to make the LCS event so much just not sure if I can swing 3 track events in 4 weeks!! I may fly out just to say hello to everyone though. Don't they rent Ellise in Vegas somewhere???

rackhenry · 10-26-2009, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack

Matt, you're suck a KA

...... love you man.

Matt is the best

... he even intructs at some of my private track days.

LOL.. I need all the encouragement I can get, I scare myself now just walking to the car...

Jack · 10-26-2009, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rackhenry

LOL.. I need all the encouragement I can get, I scare myself now just walking to the car...

Sounds like you are doing just fine ... keep it up.

If you really want to get lots of open track time (very few cars/no formal run groups) at a private Buttonwillow event in November, send me an email..... jfried993@aol.com

Andy and several other faithful Loti owners/tracksters are regulars.

R'elise Me · 10-31-2009, 10:24 PM

Don't know where you got the notion that the Elise is tricky to drive. Any rear/mid engine car can be counterintuitive if you get freaked on an early apex, but lift throttle steering is part of this cars game for sure - it loves it actually. It's claim to fame has to be that it's fun, and easy to drive at the limit and forgiving. In race trim it beats laptimes of some purpose built race cars with similar power to weight ratios. Short of a couple formula cars I'm sure I'd enjoy at least as much as the Lotus, I don't see myself moving on to anything else.

apk919 · 10-31-2009, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R'elise Me

Don't know where you got the notion that the Elise is tricky to drive.

I think that preconception is caused by relatively large number of newbie fails... people who are used to the massive amounts of protective understeer designed into normal cars are frequently caught out. If you've learned anything about vehicle dynamics... the Lotus is, as you've said, very predictable and controllable.

rackhenry · 11-01-2009, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R'elise Me

Don't know where you got the notion that the Elise is tricky to drive. Any rear/mid engine car can be counterintuitive if you get freaked on an early apex, but lift throttle steering is part of this cars game for sure - it loves it actually. It's claim to fame has to be that it's fun, and easy to drive at the limit and forgiving. In race trim it beats laptimes of some purpose built race cars with similar power to weight ratios. Short of a couple formula cars I'm sure I'd enjoy at least as much as the Lotus, I don't see myself moving on to anything else.

Andy is on point with where I got the info on the car and it's handling. I recently thought about going to another car for the sake of saving money. Lets just say the car I thought was way cool a few years back, now pales in comparison after a drive in one. Full track Lotus is my next step!!

xtn · 11-01-2009, 03:20 PM

Both tire selection and setup have a huge effect on the crap-your-pants factor.

I don't doubt that some cars are one mistake away from backwards.

xtn

f1kracingschools · 11-02-2009, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmarshall

I'm glad you enjoyed it... Matt is a great guy and a great driver. Lotus's are so stable in part due to the amazing corner balance they have from the factory. Porsche or Ferrari's will be much more sensitive to lifts due to a their balance which is not as good as the little aluminum tubbed Lotus. I'm not bashing those cars as I drive and have raced those too... but the Lotus is just cool. I had the same surprise with the cars when I first drove them too. Have fun! Come join the R3 crew at LCS!

Can't wait for this next and final race event for the year. It's going to be awesome in Pahrump. Thanks for the props Kevin. Your developement program has really come along this year. Hopefully you will be taking that race car to victory lane this weekend.

Best Regards,

Matt

f1kracingschools · 11-02-2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack

Matt, you're suck a KA

...... love you man.

Matt is the best

... he even instructs at some of my private track days.

Thanks Jack for always plugging our name. I am a K.A. just not on the race track. let me know when your next track day is. Talk soon.

Best Regards,

Matt

LARRY · 11-02-2009, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by f1kracingschools

Thanks David for attending our Course A out at Willow Springs. It was a pleasure teaching you the advanced techniques that you have just learned. I will be calling you with tips on how to attack Buttonwillow Raceway this weekend. You will do very well there on the 13 clockwise loop. You have alot of potential to move forward and accomplish the goals that you're after.
We will stay in contact with you through your driver developement program and I hope to see you racing with us in the Lotus Challenge Series next year.

Best Regards,

Matt Treglia

F1K Racing Schools

661-212-9801

What a cool note to get from your instructor.

rackhenry · 11-02-2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LARRY

What a cool note to get from your instructor.

True, a very nice comment and very much appreceated! A ride in a race prepped Lotus with Matt was eye opening!!! Pretty much convinced me that I need to go that route and build a full out track car! Then put in like 1000 hours of track time to get any good.

shinoo · 11-03-2009, 05:39 AM

Good stuff! Getting professional instruction is so key - especially from Matt. He has helped so many Lotus folk go faster. You attended our last tech seminar so you know another tool that will help reduce your lap times. Data (shameless plug, now that we are an AiM Dealer

)

Our Alignment Seminar will be Dec 5th with the alignment Guru Carl and hopefully Andy!

10-21-2009, 03:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
rackhenry Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Location: San Diego Posts: 177	Streets of Willow - Race prepped Elise – Observations! So I just took a racing school at Streets of Willow with F1K racing and wanted to share some observations. First taking professional lessons is so different than DE lessons, wow! Many thanks to Matt Treglia for a fantastic day, I cannot say enough how much it was the best money I have spent recently! Some context on my skills, (30 track days doing mostly DE).The biggest surprise to me though was the car itself! This was a 2006 Elise with race setup on slicks. I have been reading on the forum about how the car could be unforgiving etc. I found that to be not really true, for one the car was easy to throw into corners, I even lifted on purpose to get it to rotate in some corners, a little at first but as I kept going, I eventually dropped throttle hard, expecting a full break away, just nice rotation.. . Heck even on the chicane where I entered too hot and with too much steering angle the backend got loose at 80 + mph ( off camber downhill), just required a little correction with steering. Now I am not saying in that same off camber turn, if I lifted to begin with the car would not have spun, but any car would have. An honestly the fact I was able to stop the slide and recover is a testament to the car not my mad skills… I guess I found the car to be very forgiving and nowhere near as dramatic as I thought it would be. Is it the slicks that make such a huge difference? Setup? __________________ 2006 Lotus Exige - Mods: Lotus Sport ECU, Stage Two Exhaust, RTV Brace, V2 Arms, Harness Bar, Hawk HT-10 pads

10-21-2009, 08:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
f1kracingschools F1K Racing Schools Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Lancaster, CA Posts: 17	F1K Racing Schools with R3 Spec racer at Streets of Willow racetrack Thanks David for attending our Course A out at Willow Springs. It was a pleasure teaching you the advanced techniques that you have just learned. I will be calling you with tips on how to attack Buttonwillow Raceway this weekend. You will do very well there on the 13 clockwise loop. You have alot of potential to move forward and accomplish the goals that you're after. We will stay in contact with you through your driver developement program and I hope to see you racing with us in the Lotus Challenge Series next year. Best Regards, Matt Treglia F1K Racing Schools 661-212-9801

10-31-2009, 10:24 PM	#11 (permalink)
R'elise Me My other car's a mtn bike Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Venice CA Posts: 1,371	Don't know where you got the notion that the Elise is tricky to drive. Any rear/mid engine car can be counterintuitive if you get freaked on an early apex, but lift throttle steering is part of this cars game for sure - it loves it actually. It's claim to fame has to be that it's fun, and easy to drive at the limit and forgiving. In race trim it beats laptimes of some purpose built race cars with similar power to weight ratios. Short of a couple formula cars I'm sure I'd enjoy at least as much as the Lotus, I don't see myself moving on to anything else. __________________ Sometimes you have to go in circles to move forward. 05 Elise NA 1750 lbs w/ full cage, fuel cell, aero, 173 whp - Colin would be proud. 2008 LR3 HSE 2005 Mini S Convertible If I'd thought that one day ALL my cars would be British, I'd have laughed at myself!

11-01-2009, 03:20 PM	#14 (permalink)
xtn McLareghini Bugatterrari Join Date: May 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 6,845	Both tire selection and setup have a huge effect on the crap-your-pants factor. I don't doubt that some cars are one mistake away from backwards. xtn __________________ 2006 McLareghini Bugatterrari, Storm Titanium... <mods> installed: air horn, Scroth 4-point ASM harnesses, Sector111 halon extinguisher and mounting bracket, Von Hep exhaust and rear panel delete, Pagid brake pads, red Volks CE28n wheels, Toyo RA-1 tires, Nitron SA coilovers, Sector111 (WorksBell) quick-disconnect steering wheel kit. awaiting installation: Scroth "pull-up" lap belts, Sector111 RTD Brace, Tony's heater bypass mod, and dropped steering rack mounting plates. </mods>

11-03-2009, 05:39 AM	#19 (permalink)
shinoo Project Nirvana Elise Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Temecula, CA Posts: 2,617	Good stuff! Getting professional instruction is so key - especially from Matt. He has helped so many Lotus folk go faster. You attended our last tech seminar so you know another tool that will help reduce your lap times. Data (shameless plug, now that we are an AiM Dealer ) Our Alignment Seminar will be Dec 5th with the alignment Guru Carl and hopefully Andy! __________________ shinoo sector 111 - tasty bits for your elise & exige

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