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Old 07-30-2009, 03:51 AM   #21 (permalink)
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+ 1 Mr. Know... THe novice and intermediate guys really don't have much to worry about. It takes some pretty hard driving along with long sweeping turns to create issue...

Keep your gas tank and oil level at correct levels and drive to your heart's content for the first year or two of track driving

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Old 07-30-2009, 04:23 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Robains,

Thanks for the heads up, though that does make sense. In your experience is your warranty null and void from the that point forward, or only for damage that you incur during the track day session?

My car has only 5000 miles on it, and though I don't anticipate using the warranty much, it's a nice safety blanket for the next 31K miles and 15 months or so.

Mr. Know and Turbophil,

Thanks for the additional reality thrown in for consideration. Though I consider myself an above-average driver, this will be my first track day in any type of car. That said, I am used to driving vehicles at and beyond the limit, mostly in off-road situations in the CA desert as well as Baja, so I do feel that I may have a better feel for vehicle dynamics than the average driver who hasn't tracked at all.

I am fairly certain that I won't be taking the car to 10/10ths, but one of the things that I was hoping for is to get close so that I better understand the limits of the vehicle in order to be a better driver in all situations on the road. I'm thinking that you're right about not having the oil pressure and fuel starvation problems given the lower limits I'll incur at sustained G's.

How would Lotus even know that the car has been tracked in order to void the powertrain portion of the warranty? Will a readout of the ECU really be so definitive as to render a clear verdict? And would that still be true if driven mostly at 7/10ths instead of 10/10ths?
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Old 07-30-2009, 12:07 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Well I'm not gonna put my name down on the 7/10th's driving as I have no idea how those asking the questions drive nor their natural talent or un-natural talent (whatever the case).

I've instructed for NASA and have found that some new drivers can and do drive at 10/10ths (certainly equal to a advanced/race prep group) while others drive a 5/10ths. Some all over the place, some as smooth as butter and very fast. Some positively scarey (hence why I no longer instruct) drivers. So it's a mixed bag.

So it really all depends on the driver -- as an instructor I did't tell them to drive 7/10ths, I let drive within their limits. Some have more natural talent than others -- including situation awareness and safety, not just being fast and smooth.

But regardless, if you feel the car lose power on a left hand sweeper, get off the gas immediately and don't try to "drive thru it" -- I think you can get away with one warning shot, maybe two, but keep repeating it and your odds of engine failure increase.

Lotus will look at duration over and/or at specific RPM range to determine track use along with max rpm - easy data for them to extract from you car. It's very obvious a tracked car vs. a non-tracked car.

Keep in mind everything is easy with Phil hehe

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Old 07-30-2009, 12:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
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^ hehe... Everything is easy----some things just take more time than others............ except for removing the fuel pump on an 05 Elise. That's a PITA, no matter who you are
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:06 PM   #25 (permalink)
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...and that's why your fuel surge tank solution is a big benefit for those monkey wrenchers such as myself

Did you catch Steve Matchett talking about lift pumps and surge tank during last F1 race -- only difference is the F1 surge tank is within the fuel tank -- your's is external. Key verbage is low pressure lift pumps (more than one) but Steve's comments on the size and shape pretty much match yours exactly. And I thought Phil's design was all his own, now I know he's stealing F1 designs ... I'm telling Ferrari.
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Old 07-30-2009, 01:23 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turbophil View Post
except for removing the fuel pump on an 05 Elise. That's a PITA, no matter who you are
That's for damn sure!

I'd rather pull the entire drivetrain before doing that again. You should have seen me in my driveway wailing on that little piece of white plastic junk to get the assembly out... I used a BFH that night for sure...
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Old 08-01-2009, 09:13 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I tracked my stock panned 05 NA Elise for a couple years and never had an oil pressure issue manifest itself in engine damage. And I pretty much drove the piss out of it toward the end on many turns that would qualify as "oil starvation turns". No accusump or Moroso pan. I imagine that the accusump would be good measure as you get more proficient and drive faster, but on stock rubber I would even doubt it's necessary. My mechanics at LPL say top it off an extra 1/4 QT of oil on the track and I can't see how that could hurt anything.


Fuel starvation is another story and it's really car by car depending on the sealant they used on the tank baffles. Some sealants break down and some dont. My current 05 has no starvation issues while my old 05 (a later car actually) had horrible starvation issues - both on oem tanks. Starvation really hurts the motor (runs too lean) and the fuel pump (races dry) so if it happens do whatever you can to prevent it (fill the tank or ease up at that turn). I suspect a lot of motors have blown pistons as a result of fuel starvation.
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Old 08-04-2009, 05:51 PM   #28 (permalink)
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i know someone who had their engine replaced under warrantty at nearly 35k miles for the typical starvation issue... cylinder 2?... anyway it had been MOSTLY track miles on the car... yeah, nearly 35k miles, when it popped. Naturally aspirated. I don't know the story behind their warrantying it, but i suspect if he was only driving on track then he wouldn't have standing starts either. So they might see a lot of high rpm's but as long he's not exceeding max rpm's and popping his clutch, you might be able to get it warranttied if you meet all the criteria for maintaining your warranty and DON"T advertise it's spending so much time on track.

I had my car on track for the first time recently and it was popping out of 4th gear on long straights in 4th gear... only happened in 4th gear. pretty spooking thing to have happen... and not reproducible on street since it was 106 degrees on track and only happend after about 10 minutes into the session of driving... meaning things had warmed up more. no fuel starvation issues though. Toyo RA-1's on the car. I could definitely improve my driving but i was surprisingly confident on exiting turn 6 i had the pedal to the floor (where i would gain on people) all the way through turn 8 heading for 9 when i slowed down way to much for turn 9 as a miata driver pointed out to me.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:14 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Fixes

Bringing this one back from the dead so to speak.

So are their fixes for these two issues at this point?

AKA - Advanced SCCA type driver on A6's or slicks with stock engine and upgraded suspension.

Will the upgraded oil pan / accusump fix the oil starvation, along with the surge tank for the fuel, or at that level are they still issues at a track like Thunderhill?

Bill
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:47 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Gpan2/3 or accusump, the Gpan is an easier solution with no selenoids to fail.
V2 fuel tank or fuel sump, V2 tank is mechanically simpler, but a PITA to install.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:46 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I run a boe oil pan and fuel surge tank and have no issues so far
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Old 02-26-2013, 01:23 PM   #32 (permalink)
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You should also consider the Radium FST since they dropped the price quite a bit. I've had one for awhile now and I haven't had any issues. I also have a GPan which seems to do the job.
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