2007 Elise engine's harshness is killing me - LotusTalk

dead_ed · 10-06-2009, 01:30 PM

Okay, the car's pretty much had this problem, well, forever. I'm finally found it too annoying to put up with. Drama queen time: The engine sounds like ****. Utter ****. It runs fine and the car has 13k miles on it. No power problems or anything like that - just sounds awful.

The problem: It sounds awful to me and the one friend I drive around with. The dealer couldn't hear anything. It's been serviced twice by separate dealers and I guess they didn't really hear it because it's subtle. I have no idea if all Elises sound like this. I doubt it. If so, Hethel needs a box of hearing aids.

Less overly-dramatic description: On top of "normal engine sound," there is a superfluous subtle but extreme harshness. If you just got in the car and drove it around the parking lot, you may not hear it. You'll most likely notice it when driving and letting off the throttle under engine braking, but it's always there. The point is: people are all about not having a stereo because the engine is the stereo - certainly not in this car. I want the stereo to cover up the engine sound.

I'm getting a GoPro camera to mount next to the engine to record the sound (instead of what I hear in the cabin) before I go to upcoming service, but anybody have any idea what I'm talking about? Is this normal?

The weight: If this is normal, which I doubt, that's it for the car.

NOTE: This is not the regular Elise problems that I also have: rattly windows, thunky dashboard, Brake light on left turns, etc.

Any clues?

2007 Ardent Red Elise with Sport Kit.

Thomasio · 10-06-2009, 01:32 PM

Can you be a little more descriptive? Does it seem like valve train noise? Intake or exhaust noise? Gear / transmission noise? Metal vibration?

gpheck · 10-06-2009, 01:34 PM

I'd look for exhaust leaks maybe..

also there could be a heat shield or something rattling once the rpms get high enough to cause enough engine vibration for some things to touch

could be lots of things.. just a few ideas to think about

Demonized · 10-06-2009, 01:47 PM

Take one for a test drive at the dealer, or have them drive you around for a few miles in one.

If the noise is also in a different Elise, get out of here! buy yourself an Escalade!

If not, good luck finding the problem!

dead_ed · 10-06-2009, 02:20 PM

Thomasio, it's not my expertise, but it sounds like it's an aspect of the engine noise - it's right behind my head and seems related to what the engine's doing (it's much more obvious to hear when I let off the gas and just coast). This is why I'm just trying to get a recording of it.

Doesn't sound like an exhaust issue, nor gpheck does it sound like a rattle of something loose or something making contact. I can't guess what it really is, but it's NOT tapping or a valve-sound, but it could be more like a [air?] leak kind of sound. The car itself works fine, it'll haul like Jack the Bear - just sounds crappy doing it.

dead_ed · 10-06-2009, 02:22 PM

Oh, I'm in Silicon Valley if anybody's wanting to compare.

Seb · 10-06-2009, 02:49 PM

It could be your intake. That's right by your head.

Demonized · 10-06-2009, 02:50 PM

If it's a whine, and mostly evident if coasting, while in gear, I'd vote gearbox noise.

Clovis · 10-06-2009, 04:55 PM

If it's a metallic whiring harshness you are hearing during constant throttle....I will vote throwout bearing. My prior Elise did this starting at about 7k miles and got worse up until 14k when I swapped the clutch and throwout bearing. Yep, sound went away. My Exige is now getting the same noise at 10k miles. Agree it is a nasty noise that you just can't get used to. Hoping to swap in a new clutch/pp/fw and bearing over the winter.

dead_ed · 10-06-2009, 04:59 PM

http://homepage.mac.com/seaton/.Public/LTS_dead_ed.mp3

I made an initial audio recording (put on your headphones), but it's not revealing much. This was done in neutral in the parking lot. When I stuck my head under the car as far as I could get, I did hear something suspicious from front [car center] of the exhaust system so maybe the sounds just aren't coming from where I think they're coming. I'll pay more attention as I drive it home from work tonight and see if I can put a microphone in a more appropriate place (I just propped my iPhone in the bay for this one.) More research…

Clovis · 10-06-2009, 05:03 PM

BTW, to test for the bearing: Put the car in neutral and let the clutch out, rev to ~3,000 RPM and listen for noise. Press the clutch in and see if the noise goes away. If it does, it's the bearing as far as I can tell.

yagobob · 10-06-2009, 05:03 PM

this sounds like gearbox noise or the infamous "metallic rattle" that i've been hearing for for 5 years. it sounds like gearbox noise to me. i'm in the bay area too, i wouldn't mind having a listen.

Demonized · 10-06-2009, 06:01 PM

the... uhm... "thhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthh " (sorta like a rolling "R" sound, but higher pitched) that's going on through-out the entire video while the car is running sounds like the valvetrain.

Every Elise I've ever heard run has that to some extent.

The high pitched "Virrrrr" early on sounds almost like the intake.

apk919 · 10-06-2009, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dead_ed

http://homepage.mac.com/seaton/.Public/LTS_dead_ed.mp3

I made an initial audio recording (put on your headphones), but it's not revealing much. This was done in neutral in the parking lot. When I stuck my head under the car as far as I could get, I did hear something suspicious from front [car center] of the exhaust system so maybe the sounds just aren't coming from where I think they're coming. I'll pay more attention as I drive it home from work tonight and see if I can put a microphone in a more appropriate place (I just propped my iPhone in the bay for this one.) More research…

That sounded completely normal to me...

dead_ed · 10-06-2009, 07:08 PM

Thanks Clovis and everybody else - I'll try some more stuff on my way home from work. (Bonus points to anybody that found the transcript of the audio in the MP3's ID4 tags.)

MikeinAlexandria · 10-06-2009, 08:36 PM

I bought my Elise with 14500 miles on it. Driving it home, I noticed some pretty rough, mechanical sounding noises behind my head. I changed the oil twice over about a month, (to flush the oil cooler) and also changed the tranny oil. The noises aren't gone, but definitely greatly reduced. My engine runs smoothly at idle once it warms up a bit. The transmission still buzzes at little, but it is, right behind me.

I'd suggestion changing your oil and transmission fluid, using great, synthetic products. Then see how the sounds are. It's gettting close to winter, so not a bad time to do this. I am actually thinking about one more oil change before the weather gets really cold, along with brake fluid and a coolant flush (It's been about two years since these have been done)

Good luck. Record a video and post it so we can hear your car. I might do the same to compare.

sleepe · 10-06-2009, 09:32 PM

looks like you need a cayman

the Elise has no sound deadening relative to a typical sports car and offers no creature comforts...move on

khamai · 10-06-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dead_ed

Oh, I'm in Silicon Valley if anybody's wanting to compare.

Have Rob Dietsch take a listen. He's on Lafayette in Santa Clara near 237. Take him for a ride and point out when you hear the issue.

Cheers,
Kiyoshi

def · 10-07-2009, 12:32 AM

I'd offer to help but I have a stage II exhaust so I don't know how much my car would help

Isn't your car under warranty? Could always stop by the local dealer...

dead_ed · 10-08-2009, 09:36 AM

Thanks for the updates everybody.

My updates:
1) It's actually more than one sound now that I've been investigating it. There's one sound from the engine/exhaust area and one from what sounds like the passenger side front. These sounds kinda blend when in motion.

2) sleepe, I don't need a Cayman. I have a desire to make my car work *right* - it's what I paid for. I'm concerned it's not working "right" and I want to get it fixed. Two trips to the dealer (two of them) didn't make the sound improve. This is NOT a sound a car should be making so it's not a matter of me "manning up" to the Lotus way of life.

3) yagobob, if you're bored this weekend, have a listen -- I'll drive to where you want to meet. PM me.

4) also may investigate Rob Dietsch, as mentioned.

As for today, I'm riding the Bonneville. Cheers.

10-06-2009, 01:30 PM	#1 (permalink)
dead_ed Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 35	2007 Elise engine's harshness is killing me Okay, the car's pretty much had this problem, well, forever. I'm finally found it too annoying to put up with. Drama queen time: The engine sounds like **. Utter **. It runs fine and the car has 13k miles on it. No power problems or anything like that - just sounds awful. The problem: It sounds awful to me and the one friend I drive around with. The dealer couldn't hear anything. It's been serviced twice by separate dealers and I guess they didn't really hear it because it's subtle. I have no idea if all Elises sound like this. I doubt it. If so, Hethel needs a box of hearing aids. Less overly-dramatic description: On top of "normal engine sound," there is a superfluous subtle but extreme harshness. If you just got in the car and drove it around the parking lot, you may not hear it. You'll most likely notice it when driving and letting off the throttle under engine braking, but it's always there. The point is: people are all about not having a stereo because the engine is the stereo - certainly not in this car. I want the stereo to cover up the engine sound. I'm getting a GoPro camera to mount next to the engine to record the sound (instead of what I hear in the cabin) before I go to upcoming service, but anybody have any idea what I'm talking about? Is this normal? The weight: If this is normal, which I doubt, that's it for the car. NOTE: This is not the regular Elise problems that I also have: rattly windows, thunky dashboard, Brake light on left turns, etc. Any clues? 2007 Ardent Red Elise with Sport Kit.

10-06-2009, 01:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
Thomasio really light stuff Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,503	Can you be a little more descriptive? Does it seem like valve train noise? Intake or exhaust noise? Gear / transmission noise? Metal vibration? __________________ 07 SY Exige S Really Light Stuff Intercooler . RLS Tubes . RLS Water/Methanol Injection . RLS 3.0" Pulley . RLS Wing Plates . RLS CF Window Panel

10-06-2009, 01:47 PM	#4 (permalink)
Demonized NOT ßANNED! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,546	Take one for a test drive at the dealer, or have them drive you around for a few miles in one. If the noise is also in a different Elise, get out of here! buy yourself an Escalade! If not, good luck finding the problem! __________________ 2005 Saffron Yellow Elise, Katana Supercharger, LSS Wheels, 2Bular exhaust & cat, rear panel delete, Cup Airbox, Volt / Oil temp gauge, Ohlins double adjustable coilovers, Dual Oil Coolers, S111 RTD Brace, Moroso Oil Pan, MicroMirror, S111 "V-Force" Harness bar, Manly Engine Mounts, Odyssey PC680 & RLS Bracket, Saikou Michi OCC, CF Scoops, CF Bootlid, CF Front Lip.

10-06-2009, 02:50 PM	#8 (permalink)
Demonized NOT ßANNED! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,546	If it's a whine, and mostly evident if coasting, while in gear, I'd vote gearbox noise. __________________ 2005 Saffron Yellow Elise, Katana Supercharger, LSS Wheels, 2Bular exhaust & cat, rear panel delete, Cup Airbox, Volt / Oil temp gauge, Ohlins double adjustable coilovers, Dual Oil Coolers, S111 RTD Brace, Moroso Oil Pan, MicroMirror, S111 "V-Force" Harness bar, Manly Engine Mounts, Odyssey PC680 & RLS Bracket, Saikou Michi OCC, CF Scoops, CF Bootlid, CF Front Lip.

10-06-2009, 06:01 PM	#13 (permalink)
Demonized NOT ßANNED! Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,546	the... uhm... "thhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthhthh " (sorta like a rolling "R" sound, but higher pitched) that's going on through-out the entire video while the car is running sounds like the valvetrain. Every Elise I've ever heard run has that to some extent. The high pitched "Virrrrr" early on sounds almost like the intake. __________________ 2005 Saffron Yellow Elise, Katana Supercharger, LSS Wheels, 2Bular exhaust & cat, rear panel delete, Cup Airbox, Volt / Oil temp gauge, Ohlins double adjustable coilovers, Dual Oil Coolers, S111 RTD Brace, Moroso Oil Pan, MicroMirror, S111 "V-Force" Harness bar, Manly Engine Mounts, Odyssey PC680 & RLS Bracket, Saikou Michi OCC, CF Scoops, CF Bootlid, CF Front Lip.

10-06-2009, 01:34 PM	#3 (permalink)
gpheck Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 72	I'd look for exhaust leaks maybe.. also there could be a heat shield or something rattling once the rpms get high enough to cause enough engine vibration for some things to touch could be lots of things.. just a few ideas to think about

10-06-2009, 02:20 PM	#5 (permalink)
dead_ed Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 35	Thomasio, it's not my expertise, but it sounds like it's an aspect of the engine noise - it's right behind my head and seems related to what the engine's doing (it's much more obvious to hear when I let off the gas and just coast). This is why I'm just trying to get a recording of it. Doesn't sound like an exhaust issue, nor gpheck does it sound like a rattle of something loose or something making contact. I can't guess what it really is, but it's NOT tapping or a valve-sound, but it could be more like a [air?] leak kind of sound. The car itself works fine, it'll haul like Jack the Bear - just sounds crappy doing it.

10-06-2009, 02:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
dead_ed Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 35	Oh, I'm in Silicon Valley if anybody's wanting to compare.

10-06-2009, 02:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
Seb <3 QR25DE Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 754	It could be your intake. That's right by your head.

10-06-2009, 04:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
Clovis Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 296 Images: 14	If it's a metallic whiring harshness you are hearing during constant throttle....I will vote throwout bearing. My prior Elise did this starting at about 7k miles and got worse up until 14k when I swapped the clutch and throwout bearing. Yep, sound went away. My Exige is now getting the same noise at 10k miles. Agree it is a nasty noise that you just can't get used to. Hoping to swap in a new clutch/pp/fw and bearing over the winter.

10-06-2009, 04:59 PM	#10 (permalink)
dead_ed Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 35	http://homepage.mac.com/seaton/.Public/LTS_dead_ed.mp3 I made an initial audio recording (put on your headphones), but it's not revealing much. This was done in neutral in the parking lot. When I stuck my head under the car as far as I could get, I did hear something suspicious from front [car center] of the exhaust system so maybe the sounds just aren't coming from where I think they're coming. I'll pay more attention as I drive it home from work tonight and see if I can put a microphone in a more appropriate place (I just propped my iPhone in the bay for this one.) More research…

10-06-2009, 05:03 PM	#11 (permalink)
Clovis Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Plano, Texas Posts: 296 Images: 14	BTW, to test for the bearing: Put the car in neutral and let the clutch out, rev to ~3,000 RPM and listen for noise. Press the clutch in and see if the noise goes away. If it does, it's the bearing as far as I can tell.

10-06-2009, 05:03 PM	#12 (permalink)
yagobob Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 73	this sounds like gearbox noise or the infamous "metallic rattle" that i've been hearing for for 5 years. it sounds like gearbox noise to me. i'm in the bay area too, i wouldn't mind having a listen.

10-06-2009, 07:08 PM	#15 (permalink)
dead_ed Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 35	Thanks Clovis and everybody else - I'll try some more stuff on my way home from work. (Bonus points to anybody that found the transcript of the audio in the MP3's ID4 tags.)

10-06-2009, 08:36 PM	#16 (permalink)
MikeinAlexandria Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 460 Images: 5	I bought my Elise with 14500 miles on it. Driving it home, I noticed some pretty rough, mechanical sounding noises behind my head. I changed the oil twice over about a month, (to flush the oil cooler) and also changed the tranny oil. The noises aren't gone, but definitely greatly reduced. My engine runs smoothly at idle once it warms up a bit. The transmission still buzzes at little, but it is, right behind me. I'd suggestion changing your oil and transmission fluid, using great, synthetic products. Then see how the sounds are. It's gettting close to winter, so not a bad time to do this. I am actually thinking about one more oil change before the weather gets really cold, along with brake fluid and a coolant flush (It's been about two years since these have been done) Good luck. Record a video and post it so we can hear your car. I might do the same to compare. __________________ 2005 Elise in Racing Green with the touring pack 2007 MINI Cooper S in Sparkling Silver 2001 BMW Z3 Coupe in Sapphire Black (sold) 2002 MINI Cooper in yellow (sold) 1996 BMW Z3 Roadster (Racing Dynamics version) (sold) Founder of the Racing Green Confederate

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10-06-2009, 09:32 PM	#17 (permalink)
sleepe Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Rehoboth Beach, DE Posts: 1,050	looks like you need a cayman the Elise has no sound deadening relative to a typical sports car and offers no creature comforts...move on __________________ Elise'06ST:RAC/r888-Ultradiscs-Larini 8"-Braille-Saikou Michi cans-Nitron sportpro-RTVbrace-widened undertrays-manly's motor inserts-FF engine damper VF2

10-07-2009, 12:32 AM	#19 (permalink)
def ...ault Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 2,610	I'd offer to help but I have a stage II exhaust so I don't know how much my car would help Isn't your car under warranty? Could always stop by the local dealer... __________________ //kevin - 05 Graphite Gray - Red Touring / LSS / Starshield / Stage 2 + more SOLD after 1192 days and 22961 miles

10-08-2009, 09:36 AM	#20 (permalink)
dead_ed Registered User Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 35	Thanks for the updates everybody. My updates: 1) It's actually more than one sound now that I've been investigating it. There's one sound from the engine/exhaust area and one from what sounds like the passenger side front. These sounds kinda blend when in motion. 2) sleepe, I don't need a Cayman. I have a desire to make my car work right - it's what I paid for. I'm concerned it's not working "right" and I want to get it fixed. Two trips to the dealer (two of them) didn't make the sound improve. This is NOT a sound a car should be making so it's not a matter of me "manning up" to the Lotus way of life. 3) yagobob, if you're bored this weekend, have a listen -- I'll drive to where you want to meet. PM me. 4) also may investigate Rob Dietsch, as mentioned. As for today, I'm riding the Bonneville. Cheers.