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#81 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 304
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I have a S240, but I am not sure I have the LTS toe link upgrade or not (some long story). I peep in the under tray and saw a golden colour bar and it looks like the toe link in the LTS parts list. Just wonder how to check it out to see whether I has the LTS toe link.
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2008 Exige S Sport in HK (S240) almost stock. |
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#82 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego native
Posts: 604
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Checking the inner toe link torque and it was spinning in the rear. Not easily actually the torque wrench did click but, not sure how accurate. Need to remove the wheel to get a wrench on the nut and try again. Should it be able to spin. Never check before as it should have had this done at the first dealer service.
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#83 (permalink) |
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Regurgitated User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Diego!
Posts: 4,083
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^^ no - it was up on the roll on lift, so couldn't take the wheel off, decided rather tha ntaking the diffuser off we will do it when we have the wheel of during brake bleeding , the elise didn't spin in place, so the nuts of the back side are different (obviously) with the lotus brace.
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Driving it around!
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#84 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego native
Posts: 604
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No we were not. It was a Rodney described. However, I thought there was something the rear that keeps it from spinning.
Also I cannot find in my recent service manual and TSB download anything about going from 50nm to 60nm on the inner toe link torque. |
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#85 (permalink) | |
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Moderator
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Quote:
It can be a pain to tighten the suspension bolts with the car setting on it's tires, but it's the proper way to do it.
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Tim Mullen --- There is no such thing as Touring suspension or Touring wheels.I love being married. It's so great to find that one person that you want to annoy for the rest of your life. - Rita Rudner Chantilly, VA http://members.cox.net/elans4/ 05 Lotus Elise - Chrome Orange - No Touring - No LSS - No Hardtop - Lotus Driving Lights - Lotus "Chin Guards" - plain and simple. 94 Miata R Package - Black 72 Lotus Elan Sprint - Colorado Orange/Cirrus White |
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#87 (permalink) | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego native
Posts: 604
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Thanks Tim.
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#88 (permalink) | ||
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Moderator
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Quote:
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Tim Mullen --- There is no such thing as Touring suspension or Touring wheels.I love being married. It's so great to find that one person that you want to annoy for the rest of your life. - Rita Rudner Chantilly, VA http://members.cox.net/elans4/ 05 Lotus Elise - Chrome Orange - No Touring - No LSS - No Hardtop - Lotus Driving Lights - Lotus "Chin Guards" - plain and simple. 94 Miata R Package - Black 72 Lotus Elan Sprint - Colorado Orange/Cirrus White |
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#89 (permalink) | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego native
Posts: 604
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I guess I should have mentioned my car is an '07 Exige with the track pack. Would this explain not having the protruding ridge?
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#90 (permalink) | |
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Moderator
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You don't have the ball joint that fits into the slot in the chassis. Edit: Dang it. apk beat me to it. And provided a picture. I was looking for a photo I had seen and couldn't find. Didn't think to look in the manual... ![]()
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Tim Mullen --- There is no such thing as Touring suspension or Touring wheels.I love being married. It's so great to find that one person that you want to annoy for the rest of your life. - Rita Rudner Chantilly, VA http://members.cox.net/elans4/ 05 Lotus Elise - Chrome Orange - No Touring - No LSS - No Hardtop - Lotus Driving Lights - Lotus "Chin Guards" - plain and simple. 94 Miata R Package - Black 72 Lotus Elan Sprint - Colorado Orange/Cirrus White |
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#91 (permalink) | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego native
Posts: 604
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Is there a picture of the track pack Exige set up? I looked through the rear suspension portion of the service manual and didn't see it.
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#92 (permalink) | |
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perfututum futūtor
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,989
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anyone have the "new" toe link torque spec page in service manual? SERVICE BULLETIN Model: Elise/Exige Date: 03.08.06 2006/19 TITLE: Rear suspension toe-link torque check. REASON: To introduce additional service check, and highlight importance for cars regularly subjected to competition levels of cornering force. ACTION: As stated in the owner's handbook Maintenance Record booklet (page 9) and Maintenance Schedule: "The Lotus Elise and Exige are designed as road going sports cars. It is recognised that owners may wish to use the car occasionally on closed circuit tracks to experience the car’s full range of dynamic capabilities. However, use of the car in a competitive manner, including timed runs or laps, is not endorsed by Lotus. This type of timed, competitive use will invalidate warranty and require appropriate levels of expert vehicle preparation and servicing." With the increasing use of Elise/Exige on track days and closed circuit events, the previous requirement for the rear suspension toe-link inboard fixing to be torque checked only at the First After Sales service, has been amended to a torque check at every service interval. The hot dip galvanised coating used on the rear subframe can, on Toyota powertrain cars, result in some initial 'settling-in' of the toe-link ball joint stud spanner flats with the channelled insert on the subframe (ref. Service Bulletin 2004/09). This process will be accelerated if the car is subjected to track type usage. The torque figure for the latest type fine thread (1.25mm pitch) ball joint stud has also been increased from 50 to 60 Nm. On Rover powertrain cars, no channelled insert was used on the subframe; the orientation of the ball joint stud flats must manually be set horizontal to provide the maximum diameter for load distribution. For recommended torque figures for the various ball joints which may be found, refer to Service Bulletin 2003/11 Issue 4, but note that the latest type fine thread ball joint (A117D0090S) is supplied as service replacement, with a revised torque of 60 Nm (unless using with early nonhardened subframe; 45 Nm) For committed or regular track use, Lotus recommends that all suspension fixings be checked between sessions, and that the chassis rear brace kit LOTAC05377 (see Service Notes section DH.5) is fitted to spread the load distribution across a wider base and to increase tolerance to abuse. Please update your copies of the following publications with this revised information: Maintenance Schedule LSL460a (non-USA Elise/Exige); Maintenance Schedule LSL462 (USA Elise/Exige); Maintenance Schedule LSL501 (supercharged Exige); Service Notes manual A111T0327J, (S1) section DE; Service Notes manual A117T0327J, (S2) section DG; Service Notes manual A120T0327J, (111R/USA) section DH; Service Bulletin 2003/11 Issue 4. Update packages
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"Really, you want to maintain a semblance of professionalism since you represent Lotus.
Me... I don't need to. Bite me." -Randy ![]() Last edited by RoadDad : 07-30-2009 at 01:21 PM. Reason: details added |
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#93 (permalink) |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego native
Posts: 604
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Thanks Andy! I am pretty sure we were doing it in reverse. Seems the way it is stated here is more difficult to fit the larger torque wrench and socket in place whereas the front you have all the room. Unless I am missing something.
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#95 (permalink) | |
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Moderator
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Quote:
To add to the photo, I colored the chassis (sub-frame) blue, the A-arm red (note that the bushing is actually "inside" the chassis), the toe link brace green, and the toe link and Heim (spherical) joint orange.
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Tim Mullen --- There is no such thing as Touring suspension or Touring wheels.I love being married. It's so great to find that one person that you want to annoy for the rest of your life. - Rita Rudner Chantilly, VA http://members.cox.net/elans4/ 05 Lotus Elise - Chrome Orange - No Touring - No LSS - No Hardtop - Lotus Driving Lights - Lotus "Chin Guards" - plain and simple. 94 Miata R Package - Black 72 Lotus Elan Sprint - Colorado Orange/Cirrus White |
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#96 (permalink) |
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Regurgitated User
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: San Diego!
Posts: 4,083
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tightening the nut end will limit the twist on the bolt (in the bushing).
presumably the bushing may grip the bolt under compressions. but mine seemed pretty "relaxed" when i put on my brace - a reasonably precaution / process though i suppose.
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Driving it around!
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#97 (permalink) |
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Plug Whisperer
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Hold the boat... In a situation where bolt torque is critical (like with anything other than body panels.lol), NEVER tighten the bolt head unless you cannot access the nut. In this case, the nut is easy to access and bolt torque is extremely critical. In fact, it's probably not a far stretch to say that every toelink failure out there (short of those in crash) is due to improper (too loose) or at some point grossly over tightening (passed yield) of the plain 'ol ball joint that the factory sends out...
Tim, you get a for that one![]() Cheers, Phil Edit: APK- you get a thwack too ![]()
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| '05 GG LSS Elise | A Track Chariot | BOE ClamHinge | BOE TVS SuperCharger 280whp/180wtq | EFI Standalone Engine Management | BOE Fuel Surge System | BOE Lotus Tow PackageSee my car at BOE Fabrication: www.boefabrication.com ----->Last Updated: 9/25/2009 If something ain't worth doing right, it ain't worth doing... Whoever thought working on a Lotus is hard, clearly hasn't tried it. Pick up a wrench and get some grease under your nails
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#98 (permalink) | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: San Diego native
Posts: 604
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So, if it's not loose then do you need to loosen and retighten to make sure it's not ever torqued? Or, just put the torque wrench on it and make sure it clicks?
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#99 (permalink) |
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Crunchy Smurf
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I think so. I've always heard that if the nut/bolt isn't moving while being torqued, the torque value may not be accurate. So, best to loosen, then re-torque.
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2006 Laser Blue Elise -aka, Blue Lightning 2.0, The Little Blue Car, my automobile soul mate ![]() |
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#100 (permalink) |
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Plug Whisperer
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Nuts and Bolts
I'm kind of a nut when it comes to bolts (pun
), so here's the deal...First, it's FAR, FAR better to over tighten a bolt than it is to under tighten one. FAR. There are two primary ways to know if you've significantly over tighten a bolt (i.e. reduced the strength of the bolt). There are other ways, but these are good for most practical purposes... 1) The thread spacing expands. This is essentially an indication that a bolt has been torqued to yield. The bolt at this point is functional but should not be reused. How to tell: Upon removing the nut, and you VERY closely inspect the threads of the bolt, if you notice that the spacing of the threads has expanded (any of the threads that were in tension). If you see any irregular thread spacing, you should do the Carrol Smith "float test". Toss the suspect bolt in a near by pond/lake. If it floats, reuse it ![]() 2) The bolt breaks . The most stress a bolt will experience is the stress of tightening (short of over loading it and causing a failure). Not only is it in shear stress, but it's twisted as well. This is key because if the bolt survives the tightening process, then you don't have to worry about it breaking soley from being over tightened during use. Again, over tightening is far better than under tightening.Tightening 101... MOST mechanical tq wrenches are only accurate to about +/-25% of the indicated torque. Given this statistic, you have 3 options, IMO. Annually recalibrate your tq wrench (Send it off), buy a digital tq wrench (expensive, but are typically more accurate and stay more accurate than mechanical), or cross your fingers and slightly over torque every bolt you're supposed to torque to X to X+10% or so (depends on the fastener size and use) to hedge your bet that your tq wrench may be reading much over what is indicated at the "click"... You now know it's better to be too tight than too loose (remember if the bolt doesn't break you're likely OK), so you always hedge up in tq rather than down if you question your equipment... You should always use a hard washer with a bearing surface under the nut to be torqued at critical joints/unions (like the toe links). I'm not sure how I feel about those locking washer that come with some of the kits... I'd rather use a nyloc nut (yes, those are reusable). Remember is not the nut or the "lock washer" that keeps things tight. It's the bolt stretch... MOST tq specs are for dry and clean threads unless otherwise specified (like the toe links- dry and clean). All the above is especially importantly for things like suspension/driveline components. I'd bet a fair penny that every failed toe link failed due to improper tq. Those that claim they always tq'ed their toe links prior to a track event and still experienced a failure (Which would be few) probably had something wrong with the tightening procedure like a torque wrench that wasn't calibrated, or were using the *old* tq spec opposed to the new one for the links, or perhaps retorqued a toe-link that had been previously been torqued to yield by mistake, or possibly the joint could have been loose at one point in time and damage occurred to the stud at that time. It could be any one or combination of those items... IMO, I think the after market solutions do more for awareness than anything, which causes people to check them more frequently. That really helps the most (more than that "double shear" thing-uh-muh-jig connecting rod)... IN full disclosure, I do not personally run the stock toe links... but I also don't run the so-called double shear rod that connects the joints either...Not that there's anything particularly wrong with the aftermarket solutions out. They obviously work just fine ![]() Hope that helps, Phil
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| '05 GG LSS Elise | A Track Chariot | BOE ClamHinge | BOE TVS SuperCharger 280whp/180wtq | EFI Standalone Engine Management | BOE Fuel Surge System | BOE Lotus Tow PackageSee my car at BOE Fabrication: www.boefabrication.com ----->Last Updated: 9/25/2009 If something ain't worth doing right, it ain't worth doing... Whoever thought working on a Lotus is hard, clearly hasn't tried it. Pick up a wrench and get some grease under your nails
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