Front Windshield

[paulhastings]

I was told not to hold onto the front windshield while getting in or our out of the Elise. The reason being that it is not structural. Of course, I have followed this advise but, still have some concern. If it's so weak, what would happen in an accident? Furthermore, out of curiosity I put gentle pressure to see if it would move and was amazed at how little effort would cause flex. It'a almost comical the list I will have at the first service. The newest being a climate control nob. I was turning on the heater during an early morning drive and the nob came right off.

[Goose]

Ah, the famous Lotus build quality...

Several people have had the knob come off in their hand. Should be an easy fix (is it just a matter of tightening a set screw or something?) Actually, your Elise represents probably the best overall quality Lotus has yet produced. The performance it provides is well worth the "quirks" it may have.

I've also wondered about the windshield surround as a structural element. As far as I can figure, the rollbar must be the sole occupant protection for rollovers. I have my doubts on this theory though, as the line from the top of the bar to the chassis doesn't seem to offer much "safe area" for occupants.

[fastliz]

My a/c fan knob came off in my hand as the sales guy was going over the car with me when I picked it up!! I cracked up, as I knew about it from this forum. Otherwise, I may not have been so amused. I told the guy, "I'll fix it when I get home." (Easy to fix with an allen wrench to tighten the set screw.)

Mike

[Keeper]

my concern is passengers who always want to use the windshield frame to pull themselves out of the car.

[fastliz]

I'm very emphatic about telling passengers to not use the windshield frame as a handle. They oblige but give me that, "you're a freak about your car" look.

Mike

[RacyTracy]

If I have a passenger, I stay in the car until they get out. If they grab for the windshield (even though I've asked them not to), I reach up with my right arm and support the windshield. It really works.

[LotusLust]

reading that i really thought you were going to say "reach up with my right arm and slap the crap out of em"

[Ground Loop]

Originally Posted by fastwrx

I'm very emphatic about telling passengers to not use the windshield frame as a handle. They oblige but give me that, "you're a freak about your car" look.

I got that same look for the same reason about five times last weekend giving rides at the autocross. "Sure hop in, but don't press on the windshield frame -- grab the back of the seat."

About half the people remember the freak talk when they get out.

[Tyger]

Originally Posted by paulhastings

I was told not to hold onto the front windshield while getting in or our out of the Elise. The reason being that it is not structural. Of course, I have followed this advise but, still have some concern. If it's so weak, what would happen in an accident? Furthermore, out of curiosity I put gentle pressure to see if it would move and was amazed at how little effort would cause flex.

I think you guys are paranoid about the windscreen supports. How many pounds of force do you suppose the wind itself puts on those supports at a mere 80 miles an hour?

[andykeck]

Originally Posted by Tyger

I think you guys are paranoid about the windscreen supports. How many pounds of force do you suppose the wind itself puts on those supports at a mere 80 miles an hour?

But it's an even, progressive load. Not a big yank at one corner.

[EdHahn]

Originally Posted by Tyger

I think you guys are paranoid about the windscreen supports. How many pounds of force do you suppose the wind itself puts on those supports at a mere 80 miles an hour?

Not enough to deflect it over an inch.

ed

[Tyger]

Originally Posted by andykeck

But it's an even, progressive load. Not a big yank at one corner.

I'd agree that a big hard YANK on the upper corner is to be avoided, but given the enormous wind forces these components must sustain on a regular basis, I do not think there really needs to be a "hands-off at all costs" policy, especially if one is grabbing lower down. I'd be more worried about pushing off from the (collapsible) steering column than the windscreen support.

[The Stig]

Originally Posted by paulhastings

I was told not to hold onto the front windshield while getting in or our out of the Elise. The reason being that it is not structural. Of course, I have followed this advise but, still have some concern. If it's so weak, what would happen in an accident?

LoL... in case of an accident... your skull will be greeted with the rest of your spinal column, J/K ... Paul, I've seen this car after a roll driver was fine. As long as you don't end up under a SUV.

BTW... I would hand on to any windshield on any convertible/roadster/spider... I don't think they are ever solid structures, whether it's a P car, Lotus or BMW.

Neil

[JWA]

Originally Posted by Tyger

I'd agree that a big hard YANK on the upper corner is to be avoided, but given the enormous wind forces these components must sustain on a regular basis, I do not think there really needs to be a "hands-off at all costs" policy, especially if one is grabbing lower down. I'd be more worried about pushing off from the (collapsible) steering column than the windscreen support.

Are you serious? Just how much force do you think that the wind is putting on the windshield? It is canted back and taking an even load at a pretty shallow angle. To get the equivilent of 100-200lbs. pulling downward on one corner I think we'd have to be going exponentially faster than the Elise can go.

Go try grabbing on it and see how much it flexes. You'll be really surprised.

And - you aren't supposed to grab the steering wheel either.

[Thomas Praetzel]

I use the lower portion of the windshield frame as a partial "boost" to get out of the car. It doesn't flex at all, primarily because I keep the hardtop on, which should transfer any force back to the roll bar. Sounds good in theory. Look at the pictures in the shop book and you'll see that there is little structural strength in the design.

Aloha,
Thomas Praetzel

[Crash]

Originally Posted by Ground Loop

Originally Posted by fastwrx
I'm very emphatic about telling passengers to not use the windshield frame as a handle. They oblige but give me that, "you're a freak about your car" look.

I got that same look for the same reason about five times last weekend giving rides at the autocross. "Sure hop in, but don't press on the windshield frame -- grab the back of the seat."

About half the people remember the freak talk when they get out.

I get those same "you're a freak" innuendos from ride alongs. They are usually embarassed at appearing uncoordinated during entry and exit and embarassed people usually look to direct negative attention on to other people. In this case toward the person that is making their entry/exit all the more embarassing by giving them "rules" that make them look like a hippo balancing on a beach ball. People like to lean on the edge of the trunk, fiberglass bending, while they stare in and I explain why they can't do that either. A lot of my friends think I have gone over the edge. They simply have no appreciation for the car, the sacrifice it is to buy/operate one or how to take care of a car like that. They'd rather poke fun. All the more reason to hang out with other lotus freaks then. If everyone is a freak, then normal is redefined. Unless git and lil bastard are there. In that case normal is more likely achieved by letting a monkey pound on the improbability drive.

crash

[dk968]

Originally Posted by Crash

I get those same "you're a freak" innuendos from ride alongs. They are usually embarassed at appearing uncoordinated during entry and exit and embarassed people usually look to direct negative attention on to other people. In this case toward the person that is making their entry/exit all the more embarassing by giving them "rules" that make them look like a hippo balancing on a beach ball. People like to lean on the edge of the trunk, fiberglass bending, while they stare in and I explain why they can't do that either. A lot of my friends think I have gone over the edge. They simply have no appreciation for the car, the sacrifice it is to buy/operate one or how to take care of a car like that. They'd rather poke fun. All the more reason to hang out with other lotus freaks then. If everyone is a freak, then normal is redefined. Unless git and lil bastard are there. In that case normal is more likely achieved by letting a monkey pound on the improbability drive.

crash

im so used to yelling that at people.. its not even funny.. hahaha i think eveyrone thinks i prlly lost some of my marbles as well


"HEY man .. when you get in the car.. dude dont grab the windshield... hold like the chair or something."

them, " UHHH.. OK whatever..."

-- awkward silence..

[kestrel74]

I just have a problem with people slamming the doors like an american SUV

[fastliz]

Originally Posted by kestrel74

I just have a problem with people slamming the doors like an american SUV

YES!!! Drives me NUTS!

Mike

[rob13572468]

Originally Posted by JWA

Are you serious? Just how much force do you think that the wind is putting on the windshield? It is canted back and taking an even load at a pretty shallow angle. To get the equivilent of 100-200lbs. pulling downward on one corner I think we'd have to be going exponentially faster than the Elise can go.

Go try grabbing on it and see how much it flexes. You'll be really surprised.

And - you aren't supposed to grab the steering wheel either.

surprisingly, there is actually quite a bit of wind loading on the windscreen; more than you might think... remember that the elise has 93 lbs of downforce at 100 mph. the point of the vehicle that is going to experience most of that force is the part with the highest angle of attack: the windscreen.

of course, the actual aerodynamic calculations are nowhere as simple as that and involve calculating for both positive and negative effects, the effect of the rear diffuser and even the difference between hard/soft or no top. at any rate, a few simple calculations can give an idea...

for average wind loading at 150 mph (the vehicle top speed) on a flat wall type surface, the loading is about 56 lbs/sq ft. the elise windscreen is probably 8 sq ft. (just a guess... im too lazy to go measure) which would mean the total wind load is 448 lbs. of course the windscreen sits at an angle; again ill guess ~45 degrees which means that the actual component acting to pull the window down is 0.5 which means that at top speed the windscreen sees ~ 224lbs of force pulling on it.

now 224 lbs distributed over the entire windscreen is relatively safe; as a unit it can certainly hold it as long as it is distributed the entire frame might flex 1/2 inch but it certianly should not break. when somone grabs the edge of the windscreen it is a slightly different story; now the force is localized at one edge. of course, getting out of the vehicle, one would not be putting their full weight on the edge, maybe half at most, say 100 lbs. this would not be enough to break the frame but could possibly crack or break the glass since glass does not handle torsional forces well.

i would expect that having people grab the side of the windscreen might cause some cracking, particularly of the glass has pre-existing defects or chips but it certainly is not going to damage or break the frame...

on a strangely coincidental note, the other day i had a friend in the car with me. and he (weighing 170+ lbs by the way) decided to do a full on "dukes of hazzard" hop over the closed door and into the seat with one hand on the roll bar and the other on the windshield. he did it so fast that i couldnt even say anything