Mobil Delvac --DISEL OIL used by service?! - Page 2 - LotusTalk

PatrickShim · 11-25-2007, 09:41 AM

Thanks guys the knowledgable inputs.

I guess I won't have to be upset with the dealership.

TimMullen · 11-26-2007, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ol'Racer

It has more zinc and Phosphorus added, which has been reduced in most all major oils.

Apparently the diesel engines need the added protection because of the added loads. It's supposed to be good in our engines because of the sliding actions that the "lifters" have on the cams when we're in "second cam". The added protection is not needed in engines that are lightly loaded and/or have rollers on the valve actuators (we don't).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasio

I thought that there was some concern about catalytic converters w/ the diesel oil?

It's my understanding that it is a concern overall because if an engine is burning oil, the additives will degrade the converter. Bur if your engine is in good condition (not burning oil) there is no problem. And the oil will be better for our engines.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PatrickShim

Are the synthetic diesel engine oils more expensive than regular synthetic oils?

For comparable oil, it shouldn't be. I was recently at Wal-Mart and grabbed up a couple of jugs of Mobil 1 5w40 Turbo Diesel oil - it was the same price as the regular Mobil 1 I use in my other cars. The turbo diesel oil has been a bit difficult to find around here lately...

shay2nak · 11-26-2007, 08:05 PM

I have the diesel oil in my car now. Got it at walmart as well. I was going to try Amsoil during next oil change, but in talking to them at the la show, i probably won't because they follow the new government guideline.

EdHahn · 11-27-2007, 03:47 AM

FWIW, the diesel oil meets the current API specs for spark ignition engines (SL).

ed

TimMullen · 11-27-2007, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdHahn

FWIW, the diesel oil meets the current API specs for spark ignition engines (SL).

That's the thing... The current API spec is for "SM". I believe that the change from "SL" to "SM" is the reduction in the additives - the diesel oil still has the additives, hence it "only" meets the "SL" spec. Which could be argued that it is a good thing...

AlanS · 11-27-2007, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EdHahn

FWIW, the diesel oil meets the current API specs for spark ignition engines (SL).

ed

I believe the current API spec is SM, which has further reduced the phosphurus content, and therefore the amount of ZDDP, from 1000 ppm to 800 ppm. This is not good news for the slipper followers on our high cams (the low cams have roller bearing followers). We should probably all be using Delvac or similar diesel oil. I'd rather jeopardize long-term catalytic converter longevity than wear the high cam lobes!.

ZAMMY1 · 11-27-2007, 11:02 AM

roller bearing followers?
i hadn't realized that.
i'll have to poke into my corolla sometime.
i realy do need a look at the innards of the 2zz engine.
sam

Icedog_16 · 11-27-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanS

I believe the current API spec is SM, which has further reduced the phosphurus content, and therefore the amount of ZDDP, from 1000 ppm to 800 ppm. This is not good news for the slipper followers on our high cams (the low cams have roller bearing followers). We should probably all be using Delvac or similar diesel oil. I'd rather jeopardize long-term catalytic converter longevity than wear the high cam lobes!.

What catalytic convertor?

TimMullen · 11-27-2007, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZAMMY1

roller bearing followers?
i hadn't realized that.

It's the only diagram I can find, but note that it indicates "Needle Roller" for the low speed cam, and "Rocker Arm Pad" for the high speed cam. I guess Toyota didn't expect the engine to be on the high cam most of the time...

AlanS · 11-27-2007, 12:19 PM

Yes, I have seen and held one in my hand. The low cam has a roller bearing follower while the high cam is a slipper follower, that can scuff the cam lobe if not properly lubricated. ZDDP, which the API is taking away from us, acts as a surface modifier to increase lubricity between the follower and the cam.

Thomasio · 11-27-2007, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimMullen

I guess Toyota didn't expect the engine to be on the high cam most of the time...

There's an (SAE I think) paper out there somewhere that explains why different followers were used for the different cams. They chose the best for each scenario, it didn't seem to be determined by economics at all. I'll see if I can find a link to the paper...

Thomas

Thomasio · 11-27-2007, 12:22 PM

Here it is: http://www.mmsport.com.au/download.php?fid=34

See p. 3 "Choice of Follower"

Thomas

ZAMMY1 · 11-27-2007, 02:39 PM

sumpn' new every day, hey?
i never expected it.
i'll get out my shop manuals....
thanks, sam

ZAMMY1 · 11-27-2007, 02:41 PM

thomasio...i even have that document.
some have eyes and see not.
thanks.
sam

11-26-2007, 08:05 PM	#23 (permalink)
shay2nak Jobu no like curveball Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Land of da 1000 Oaks, CA Posts: 15,707	I have the diesel oil in my car now. Got it at walmart as well. I was going to try Amsoil during next oil change, but in talking to them at the la show, i probably won't because they follow the new government guideline. __________________ save ~10 lbs gain 1 hp EQ: Y=(190*X) / (1984-X) where Y is (HP) and X is (lbs) '07 Lotus Exige S310 '08 Acura TSX 6-speed support WTC 2!

11-27-2007, 03:47 AM	#24 (permalink)
EdHahn Jugga Jigga Wugga Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 1,237	FWIW, the diesel oil meets the current API specs for spark ignition engines (SL). ed __________________ Magnetic Blue/LSS Delivered: 1/13/05

11-27-2007, 12:19 PM	#30 (permalink)
AlanS Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Norwalk, CT and Sheffield, MA Posts: 598	Yes, I have seen and held one in my hand. The low cam has a roller bearing follower while the high cam is a slipper follower, that can scuff the cam lobe if not properly lubricated. ZDDP, which the API is taking away from us, acts as a surface modifier to increase lubricity between the follower and the cam. __________________ Alan '05 Elise, Magnetic Blue

11-27-2007, 12:22 PM	#32 (permalink)
Thomasio Really Light Stuff Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 3,855	Here it is: http://www.mmsport.com.au/download.php?fid=34 See p. 3 "Choice of Follower" Thomas __________________ 07 SY Exige S Really Light Stuff Intercooler . RLS Tubes . RLS Water/Methanol Injection . RLS 3.0" Pulley . RLS Wing Plates . RLS CF Window Panel .. To Order .. RLS Product Links ..

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11-25-2007, 09:41 AM	#21 (permalink)
PatrickShim How you doin'? Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,222	Thanks guys the knowledgable inputs. I guess I won't have to be upset with the dealership.

11-27-2007, 11:02 AM	#27 (permalink)
ZAMMY1 ZAMMY Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: washington, pa, (near PGH.) Posts: 1,559	roller bearing followers? i hadn't realized that. i'll have to poke into my corolla sometime. i realy do need a look at the innards of the 2zz engine. sam

11-27-2007, 02:39 PM	#33 (permalink)
ZAMMY1 ZAMMY Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: washington, pa, (near PGH.) Posts: 1,559	sumpn' new every day, hey? i never expected it. i'll get out my shop manuals.... thanks, sam

11-27-2007, 02:41 PM	#34 (permalink)
ZAMMY1 ZAMMY Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: washington, pa, (near PGH.) Posts: 1,559	thomasio...i even have that document. some have eyes and see not. thanks. sam

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