New Tires.

[demarco]

Well it looks like i'm going to need new tires soon.

I have about 5,000 miles on the car, so i figure in another 2,000 miles i'll need new ones.

I was thinking about getting the Kumho ECSTA ASX tire.

I will probably do the occasional track day.

What does everything think about the Kumho ECSTA ASX vs the Yokohama ADVAN A048 (which is what i have on the car now)

the Kumho's are way cheaper at the tire rack. (about 1/2 the price)

I have heard good things about the Kumho's, but never used them. I just ordered a set of Kumho's for my SUV (not here yet)

Vince

[Robert Puertas]

The Ecsta ASX is a touring tire, the kind of thing you might put on your sporty family sedan.
Not to be confused with the Ecsta MX which is comparable to the base model's Neovas,
or the Ecsta V700 which is a R-compound comparable to the A048.
The Ecsta V710 is the super-sticky R-Compound we are currently using for Solo2.

[JonOrangeElise]

Me, personally: Given the extent to which Lotus has promoted the A048s' integration into the LSS's state of tune, I would stick with the A048s -- deferring to Lotus' expertise in chassis tuning in general. Granted, I'm sure the subtleties between the two tires only reveal themselves at the limit, and only in certain situations. I've driven crap tires on the track, and still had loads of fun. If you're not going for lap times, and you just want to learn and have fun, I don't think there's anything wrong with MOST tire choices.

(Of course, all of Lotus' discussion of tire choice may be purely in support of its tire partner... that always has to be considered.)

At any rate, I figure if I'm going to pay so much for a toy car in the first place, expensive tires are just part of the cost of ownership.

Edit: Read your post too quickly -- as per Robert's post, at least go for max performance or a different DOT-approved r-compound.

[MotorCade]

I am currently on V700s and I'm missing the grippiness of the A048s. Don't get me wrong, the V700 is pretty impressive, but still feels like a little less grip is available. Also, due to sizes available, the front is a 205, and it makes a noticeable difference on the car's tendency toward oversteer. I wouldn't say it's tail happy, but it's pretty close to neutral, whereas it was slightly toward understeer before. It can step out in a hurry if you're not careful.

Cade

[Stan]

Motorcade....IMO the AO48s in autocross are more like something like an Azenis or G-Force KD than a Hoosier S05 or Kumho 710.

The Elise was tuned to the A048s and vice versa...to get the best out of the V700s, maybe some alignment tweaks might help. And what size did you use for the rears? If 225/45 maybe a better setup for the Elise with that tire would be to use something a bit wider in size.

[polar]

At any rate, I figure if I'm going to pay so much for a toy car in the first place, expensive tires are just part of the cost of ownership.
___________
tell me about it. i just gone through a set of pilot sport cups... only 900 track miles ;-(

[David]

Originally Posted by JonOrangeElise

Given the extent to which Lotus has promoted the A048s' integration into the LSS's state of tune, I would stick with the A048s -- deferring to Lotus' expertise in chassis tuning in general.

I think this is good advise. I'd switch tires only to achieve a particular end, such as qualifying for a certain autocross class.

[TripleBlack_NJ]

Originally Posted by MotorCade

I am currently on V700s and I'm missing the grippiness of the A048s. Don't get me wrong, the V700 is pretty impressive, but still feels like a little less grip is available. Also, due to sizes available, the front is a 205, and it makes a noticeable difference on the car's tendency toward oversteer. I wouldn't say it's tail happy, but it's pretty close to neutral, whereas it was slightly toward understeer before. It can step out in a hurry if you're not careful.

Cade

Are you using the 225 or 245 in the rear?

[demarco]

Originally Posted by Robert Puertas

The Ecsta ASX is a touring tire, the kind of thing you might put on your sporty family sedan.
Not to be confused with the Ecsta MX which is comparable to the base model's Neovas,
or the Ecsta V700 which is a R-compound comparable to the A048.
The Ecsta V710 is the super-sticky R-Compound we are currently using for Solo2.

THanks for the info, i was just looking at Tire rack for the recommended tires.

Seems like the A048 are definitely the way to go.

Thanks.

[Stan]

There is also a chance the soft compound version may become available, the A048S

[demarco]

I was looking at Tire Rack again and only the fronts A048 are LTS (lotus versions)

The rears are the standard versions of the A048.

On my car both the front and rear are Lotus spec'd A048.

Does anyone know if there is any difference between the standard versions and the LTS versions??

Vince

[MotorCade]

Still using 225s in the rear. I haven't really played around with the suspension much, mostly because I don't want to screw up a good thing, and I'm not very experienced at suspension tuning.

Putting the 245s in the rear would certainly bring the understeer back in. To be honest, I like the car's balance a bit better now, it is a little more rapid to turn in, but I would prefer to have the higher level of grip. So... I guess what I'm saying is I'll sacrifice the neutral feel for the overall grip level.

What suggestions do you have?

Cade

[Eyelise]

You can also drill out the sway bar to limit the oversteer. Stan also suggested changing the rubber bushings to poly. You might get another 1/3 stiffness. I maxed out the negative camber in front and brought the rear to just under -2.0. I have not noticd any change in the handling. It still understeers unless I do something stupid. Next I'll increase the front tire size while stiffening the front sway bar. The net will likely be the same handling. Even thought the balance may be the same, all these mods will add to higher grip and faster cornering speeds. I hope the tires will wear more evenly as well.

[Robert Puertas]

Originally Posted by Eyelise

You can also drill out the sway bar to limit the oversteer. Stan also suggested changing the rubber bushings to poly. You might get another 1/3 stiffness. I maxed out the negative camber in front and brought the rear to just under -2.0. I have not noticd any change in the handling. It still understeers unless I do something stupid. Next I'll increase the front tire size while stiffening the front sway bar. The net will likely be the same handling. Even thought the balance may be the same, all these mods will add to higher grip and faster cornering speeds. I hope the tires will wear more evenly as well.

Stand the rear tires back up. The Elise doesn't need more than 1.5 degrees static negative camber in the back. It gains a good amount under compression, and you're giving away a bunch of contact patch under acceleration and braking. In fact, the next time I have the rear wheels off I'm going to try adding another shim...

[Eyelise]

I'll keep that in mind next time I'm in for an alignment. I think I have 1.8 which is well within OEM specs

[Stan]

FWIW the front camber shims affect only camber when they are changed...about .2-.3 degrees per shim.

The rear shims change camber the same amount per shim, but also change the toe at the same time. Adding shims takes away toe-in. So make sure you check/adjust this too at the adjustable toe link. The car is pretty sensitive to toe changes.

Our front suspension moves toward toe out as it compresses. And it has about 30% Ackermann, which leads to more toe-out with increasing steering angle. Negative camber increases with compression (upward wheel movement). If you lower an Elise, you're likely to be able to achieve enough negative camber due to camber gain as the suspension compresses, and the reduced weight transfer leading to less camber loss from body roll. At stock ride height it's not really possible to get as much negative camber as one might hope for up front.

Our rear suspension moves toward toe-in as it compresses and also adds negative camber. You can get more than enough camber out back.

[Jack]

Stan and/or Robert:

Maybe you can help me out on how compression adds negative camber on the Elise. Let me share my recent experience when my Lotus was on the alignment rack -- as we compressed the left side (by adding my weight to the driver's seat), the static negative camber on the left side decreased (got more positive) and the right side negative camber increased. There was about a .6 degree shift from left to right side front negative camber. The rear left/right negative camber reacted the same with about a .4 degree shift from left to right as the left side was compressed. This surprised me at first since it differed from my experience with my Porsche and BMW's, i.e., when we compressed the suspension negative camber increased. Upon further reflection, it would appear to be the equal length double wishbone Lotus suspension that accounts for this result, but I may be wrong. I'd appreciate your input on this.

Have you guys checked out your alignment findings/observations (re the impact of compressing the suspension) with your Elise on the alignment rack? Thanks in advance for you help.