oil cooler disaster

[evoate]

I have 16,000+ miles on my 05 elise, I just had the 15,000 service last month. Three weeks ago I was on the last mile of my 23 mile commute, beautyful day and all of a sudden I smelled oil. I thought it was coming from the car in front of me but then I looked in the rear view mirror and saw that I was leaving a tire track of oil behind me. I stopped immediately, and saw that the whole left side of the car was covered in oil and a gusher was coming from the left front oil cooler. I was in a dangerous spot on the highway,no oil pressure light had come on so I restarted the car and drove about a block to a safer spot. I called the nearest dealer (40 miles away) and told them I was geting a flatbed to bring my car to them. Fortunately I have the AAA membership with 200 miles of free towing.

The next day the dealer got to the car and told me the connection from the oil cooler hose had come apart. No, this wasn't a leak,but the hose physically separated (the fitting was on the oil cooler but the hose detached from the fitting-defective part). The dealer told me the part had to be shipped from England, he then asked me to pay for the air shipment charges or it would take three weeks to get the part. Now wait a minute, its a defective part, if I want it fixed realtively quickly I would have to pay for the shipping! I paid for the shipping and got the car back in 7 days. The failure of the hose bathed the front tire and left front brake with oil, the fortunate thing was I was going in a straight line when it happened. Through all of this, no mention of a rental car, any type of remuneration for the towing etc. I am very diappointed with both the dealer's and Lotus itself for the way this was handled.

Has anyone else had a hose failure like this? How was it handled by lotus?
I suggested to the dealer to dump the computer to check to see if the engine ever hit low oil pressure during the oil cooler disaster. He didn't do it.

[zvezdah1]

The only problem I've heard was separation of the fitting from the oil cooler on some of the early cars. So the hose phsically broke in two??

I'm really surprised LCU didn't have the part in stock.

[evoate]

It needed a new hose from the engine to the cooler. I guess the hose is "crimped" to the fittting and that is where the hose separated from the fitting.

Thanks for the input.

[Rowdstar]

Lotus renumerate you for towing or a rental car?? Youre kidding right.....

Glad you are up and running now!

[pixlpush]

Don't get me wrong this really sucks but I don't know that I'd go as far as calling it a disaster. They got you back on the road in a week including shipping in a part from England, That's not too bad after the initial event. Disaster would have been if the engine siezed from running dry, or if you'd been in a high speed corner and the resultant oil slick tossed you off the road and wrecked the car. Again, sorry you had to got stuck with this problem, hopefully everything is ok now. It does seem like they should have picked up the shipping at least.

[lt0302]

I have had the same thing happen to me, they did pick up the towing charge and replaced the oil line but now I am fighting the dealer on the engine since I have this tapping and clinking going on that I did not have prior to the incident. In my case the return line came apart so I will be back to the dealer on monday to see what they can do about the engine...sadly my oil light did come on and was in traffic but pulled off the road approx 30 sec after oil light came on.

[jallingt]

I have a rather early build #21, it does not have the sport pack but does have two oil coolers. Do you think there is anything I can look for or replace to prevent such a "disaster?" Could there be some seepage or leaking before it lets loose? Did you see any oil spots in your normal parking spots?

[ChrisB]

Originally Posted by jallingt

I have a rather early build #21, it does not have the sport pack but does have two oil coolers. Do you think there is anything I can look for or replace to prevent such a "disaster?" Could there be some seepage or leaking before it lets loose? Did you see any oil spots in your normal parking spots?

I think evoate's problem was very unique...first failure of this type I've heard of. The early '05s had an assembly problem that might result in a failure of the oil cooler itself. In every case I know of, including mine, it started with a slow leak that resulted in oil spots on the garage floor and progressed over time, only rarely resulting in an eventual rapid oil loss.

About all you can do for this situation is keep an eye on the garage floor, which I always do for any car anyway.

[neckstrap]

When I built my Cobra replica (1986), I put an oil cooler in the nose. I used aircraft quality hoses from the engine to the cooler and from the cooler to a double remote oil filter and from the oil filter back to the engine. I drove the car for probably 4 years that way and had a lot of problems with leaks and hoses splitting near the connectors. I think that rubber hoses are pushed to their limit carrying oil at engine temperatures and pressures. I decided that the oil cooler was not that important and having a reliable car was. So, I scrapped all that stuff and went back to a stock spin-on filter on the block. I have driven the car for ten years since then with no more problems.

The big question is, does the Lotus NEED the extra cooling? Engine oil should run at over 175 degrees F to lubricate property and evaporate any condensed water. I suspect that the double Lotus oil coolers keep the oil below that, except in really hot weather or on a race track. I believe that most of us would be a lot better off without them. Guys who build high performance engines for racing applications use a thermostatic valve to bypass external oil coolers until the oil has reached the proper temperature. Then, the valve diverts the oil trough the cooler as necessary to keep it under 230 Degrees. I don't find any thermostatic control on the lotus and that means that the oil may never reach the best temperature unless you live in Phoenix. Most of us would probably avoid a lot of leakage problems and have better lubrication and SAVE A LOT OF WEIGHT by removing the oil coolers and using the stock Toyota oil system.

The proof would be if someone installed an oil temperature gauge on their Lotus and tried running with and without the oil coolers. Since mine is not even running yet, I can't try this. Any volunteers?

Paul

[TimMullen]

Originally Posted by neckstrap

The big question is, does the Lotus NEED the extra cooling? Engine oil should run at over 175 degrees F to lubricate property and evaporate any condensed water.

Lotus seems to think we need the coolers, or they wouldn't have added them. The Celica engine was known to have oiling problems - something that we don't seem to have with the coolers.

Guys who build high performance engines for racing applications use a thermostatic valve to bypass external oil coolers until the oil has reached the proper temperature. Then, the valve diverts the oil trough the cooler as necessary to keep it under 230 Degrees. I don't find any thermostatic control on the lotus

You need to look harder. The "sandwich plate" that the oil lines connect to is the oil thermostat. Lotus does things the right way.

Most of us would probably avoid a lot of leakage problems and have better lubrication and SAVE A LOT OF WEIGHT by removing the oil coolers and using the stock Toyota oil system.

Like I said above, the stock Toyota oil system seems to have a lot of oil related problems and failures. That's why we have the coolers.

The proof would be if someone installed an oil temperature gauge on their Lotus and tried running with and without the oil coolers. Since mine is not even running yet, I can't try this. Any volunteers?

It's been done. The coolers do a great job and the oil runs at the proper temperature.

For what it's worth, a lot of cars have oil coolers. My '93 Honda Accord has one from the factory. My '94 Miata (and most of the others), and many of the Corvettes, etc. also have an oil cooler (although it's an oil/water heat exchanger) on the car from the factory. There is nothing exotic about an oil cooler.

The original batch of US Elises had a problem with some of them developing leaks. It was not a problem with the design, but with the installation of them - basically you need to wrenches to tighten the fitting, one to hold the cooler fitting in place, and the other to tighten the hose fitting. Apparently, someone at the factory wasn't using the one on the cooler, and it was leading to cracks in the tubing to the fitting. That process has been fixed.

We have had a couple of oil hoses leaking. That is a very low percentage. Low enough that it isn't really a major problem.

[kverges]

Tim, you may be mistaken.

I do have an oil temp and pressure gauge, and in normal street driving, my oil temps never exceed 200 deg F. I measure oil temp in the sump, which should be fairly hot, as it is what bleeds out of the reciprocating parts to be picked up and pumped through the filter and coolers. Perhaps my thermostat does not work?

Do other people's cars really run over 200 deg F oil temp on the street? I think that would be the proper temperature to outgas water and other volatile contaminants from combustion, right?

And while not a disaster, I agree that Lotus should have picked up shipping. I have personally found that Lotus' customer service is not very good, I assume driven by the bottom line.

I will say that having been to a Lexus dealer (where I dropped off a LS430 straight from a wholesale auction with virtually nothing working right) and getting the car fully repaired under warranty - including a new battery - makes Lotus a pitiful comparison indeed. The Lexus dealer even offered me cookies and refreshments while I waited for the car.

[Me&MyE]

Originally Posted by evoate

I have 16,000+ miles on my 05 elise, I just had the 15,000 service last month. Three weeks ago I was on the last mile of my 23 mile commute, beautyful day and all of a sudden I smelled oil. I thought it was coming from the car in front of me but then I looked in the rear view mirror and saw that I was leaving a tire track of oil behind me. I stopped immediately, and saw that the whole left side of the car was covered in oil and a gusher was coming from the left front oil cooler. I was in a dangerous spot on the highway,no oil pressure light had come on so I restarted the car and drove about a block to a safer spot. I called the nearest dealer (40 miles away) and told them I was geting a flatbed to bring my car to them. Fortunately I have the AAA membership with 200 miles of free towing.

The next day the dealer got to the car and told me the connection from the oil cooler hose had come apart. No, this wasn't a leak,but the hose physically separated (the fitting was on the oil cooler but the hose detached from the fitting-defective part). The dealer told me the part had to be shipped from England, he then asked me to pay for the air shipment charges or it would take three weeks to get the part. Now wait a minute, its a defective part, if I want it fixed realtively quickly I would have to pay for the shipping! I paid for the shipping and got the car back in 7 days. The failure of the hose bathed the front tire and left front brake with oil, the fortunate thing was I was going in a straight line when it happened. Through all of this, no mention of a rental car, any type of remuneration for the towing etc. I am very diappointed with both the dealer's and Lotus itself for the way this was handled.

Has anyone else had a hose failure like this? How was it handled by lotus?
I suggested to the dealer to dump the computer to check to see if the engine ever hit low oil pressure during the oil cooler disaster. He didn't do it.

I had the exact same problem http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...ne+replacement

[GetBoost]

I see references in the Service Parts List to an oil-2-water cooler, on a non-cooler car. I'm guess that there are Elise/Exige versions without the front oil coolers and instead rely on an oil to water cooler sandwich. Would be interesting to see how those run.

From those who have oil temp gauges, I've heard that they pretty much match up with the water temperature. Is this the case?

[kverges]

To give you a for example, on this 68 degree morning, my water temp quickly warmed to the usual 186 deg F, but oil never exceeded 150 deg F (measured in the pan). I rarely see over 170 deg F on the road, even on my 65-mile drive to MotorSport Ranch. On track, oil temps do rise above 200.

If my car has an oil thermostat, I have to guess it does not work.

Oh, I have taken off the sandwich adaptor between block and filter (the thing to which the oil lines attach) and it has only a bypass valve, not a thermostat.

Tim, where is the oil T-stat?

[TimMullen]

Originally Posted by kverges

Oh, I have taken off the sandwich adapter between block and filter (the thing to which the oil lines attach) and it has only a bypass valve, not a thermostat.

Tim, where is the oil T-stat?

That is the thermostat. The thermostat is part of the "sandwich adapter" and the mechanism that controls it is contained under the "extra" bolt (looks like a plug) on the plate. The red arrow points to it in the diagram below. For those that don't know - the adapter is where the oil filter screws onto, and the oil hoses attach.

It's possible that you thermostat isn't working quite right, or that you gauge is off a bit and reading slightly low. You might want to check your gauge by inserting the sensor into a pot of boiling water to measure the temperature (use a good thermometer to measure the temperature of the water).

In the case of the oil/water heat exchanger (cooler) cars, everything outside of the blue "circled" area is replaced by the few parts inside the blue area. The heat exchanger hoses are connected to the "heater" connections on the side of the engine (the head, if I remember). On our cars, the bypass hose is used instead to connect the coolant circuit instead.

[reganfin]

Originally Posted by TimMullen

That is the thermostat. The thermostat is part of the "sandwich adapter" and the mechanism that controls it is contained under the "extra" bolt (looks like a plug) on the plate. The red arrow points to it in the diagram below. For those that don't know - the adapter is where the oil filter screws onto, and the oil hoses attach.

It's possible that you thermostat isn't working quite right, or that you gauge is off a bit and reading slightly low. You might want to check your gauge by inserting the sensor into a pot of boiling water to measure the temperature (use a good thermometer to measure the temperature of the water).

In the case of the oil/water heat exchanger (cooler) cars, everything outside of the blue "circled" area is replaced by the few parts inside the blue area. The heat exchanger hoses are connected to the "heater" connections on the side of the engine (the head, if I remember). On our cars, the bypass hose is used instead to connect the coolant circuit instead.

Interesting that the oil return is in the left hand sill while the hot coolant water travels to the radiator on that side.