Recall on oil coolers? - LotusTalk

Biomax · 09-02-2004, 05:28 AM

I don't know about everyone else but with less than 200 elises delivered, and 3 reports on this board about broken/cracked oil coolers dumping oil, I'm quite concerned.

Has Lotus changed manufacturers yet?

What does it take to create a recall?

Robert

Racer X · 09-02-2004, 07:18 AM

Perhaps they are actually investigating the cause of the failure. Why change suppliers? Most companies would allow/force the current manufacturer to alter the design to avoid the problem.

Let's see why it is happening before we ask for a recall.

Greg

MattG · 09-02-2004, 09:11 AM

No need to panic just yet. The fact that these are failing so early in the car's life in encouraging; it's almost certainly to be caught under warranty if it really is a widespread problem.

Randy Chase · 09-02-2004, 11:41 AM

I think there is some investigating work and discussion back in Hethel about this.

ConeFusion · 09-02-2004, 11:57 AM

You have to expect a few problems if you're one of the first to get a completely new car model. It's not exclusive to Lotus, the same thing happens to much larger manufacturers. That's what warranties are for. It's still a hassle, of course, but that's a risk you take.

agent.5 · 09-02-2004, 01:59 PM

Relax. I think Lotus can figure it out. But it will be kind of funny if we have a recall when only a couple hundred cars are delivered.

NtflBlueLiz · 09-02-2004, 08:28 PM

It is almost a mantra in Porschephile circles to never get a first year Porsche. Recent examples that come to mind are 1995 993s (1st year) had faulty wire harnesses that lead to car fires, 1999 996s (1st year) had oil starvation problems during high speed cornering and some engines were lost and so on.
Don't panic over 3 oil coolers, all car manufacturers find during the first year the bugs they didn't catch during the development and testing phases, it is totally normal in ANY price car and more so in low volume cars. The more important question is if they fix the problem and let us know about it so we may get it corrected on cars that have already been delivered. Just so you know, the problem on the 95 993s even though widely known and can be corrected under warranty is still an issue one should look at when bying a 1995 993 since many cars still haven't had the wire harnesses replaced, and the 1999 996 oil starvation problem was corrected in the following year but as far as I know all 1999 cars are subjected to it and there is no easy fix for it. There are a lot more examples like these for all cars.

agent.5 · 09-02-2004, 08:29 PM

I think all the Boxsters still have RMS leaks after all these years of development. One good reason to stick with air cooled Porsches.

adamant · 09-02-2004, 08:35 PM

"All" is a little extreme. All the (12) Boxsters I know have not needed RMS work.

agent.5 · 09-02-2004, 08:41 PM

I mean all model years.

Dan · 09-03-2004, 12:16 AM

The Miata is generally considered as the most reliable sports car in the world, but it still had/has its share of problems, including recalls.

Au111 · 09-03-2004, 04:21 AM

I wouldn't be so concerned, except for the location of the coolers. If one decides to let go under pressure and oils a front tire, serious mayhem may occur. I had a formula vee oil the track right in front of me yesterday

and I REALLY do not want to go through that again - especially on my own oil.

Derek · 09-03-2004, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Au111
I wouldn't be so concerned, except for the location of the coolers. If one decides to let go under pressure and oils a front tire, serious mayhem may occur. I had a formula vee oil the track right in front of me yesterday and I REALLY do not want to go through that again - especially on my own oil.

This is clearly a concern. I hope Lotus looks into this carefully and takes whatever action is necessary to prevent these failures.

Evl · 09-03-2004, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by NtflBlueLiz
Don't panic over 3 oil coolers, all car manufacturers find during the first year the bugs they didn't catch during the development and testing phases, it is totally normal in ANY price car and more so in low volume cars. The more important question is if they fix the problem and let us know about it so we may get it corrected on cars that have already been delivered.

Agreed, I'm not worried that there are some bugs, but I'm very interested to see if they handle this any better than the rest of the roll out.

thegit · 09-14-2004, 06:56 AM

I'll bet that they are simply overtorquing the aluminum fittings during the build.
The push for quality control sometimes deprives otherwise skilled people of the self confidence and common sense.
The problem is that these fittings tend to be unforgivable.
I've seen this problem with Mocal/Setrab coolers.
m.

zvezdah1 · 09-14-2004, 09:28 AM

git,
This was mentioned in the oil cooler thread it was purely an assembly issue causing a slight leak at the fitting which would pool on the rubber padding on the bottom of the cooler, when the area was saturated, you'd get a steady oil drip on the floor. NO CATASTROPHIC FAILURES LIKE SPLITTING ETC> assembly process modified and they'll be issuing a bulletin on what vin range is POTENTIALLY affected. FWIW if it doesn't happen after the first few hundred miles you should be ok. You can give a squeeze to the rubber piece below the oil cooler, if it's oil soaked see your dealer.
Chris

thegit · 09-15-2004, 09:07 AM

Yep.
If you check the cooler fittings and they are dry, then they will never leak until undone or damaged.
Once the fittings are overtorqued and leak, then you cannot seal the leak unless you're able to goop it, as the aluminum is gouged (This is what I mean by unforgiveable- you can't undo the damage, basically). The aluminum is thick at the fittings so will not worsen due to oil pressure.
When you purchase an aftermarket oil cooler, you are exhorted not to overtorque the fittings.

If the cooler matrix itself is leaking, then this has more potential for a runny leak that would quickly saturate any absorbents. This kind of leak would worsen as the tubing is thin gauged and will be exascerbated by the 80+ psi on start up and the 68-70 PSI at cold and at cruise + full throttle. This flow amount is more likely to get under a tire.
m.

zvezdah1 · 09-15-2004, 09:21 AM

Was told it's purely a fittings issue and not matrix
Chris

edaddy · 10-21-2005, 06:36 PM

Having lurked on ET for some time before buying mine in August, I concluded that things like oil cooler leaks were early production issues. Guess what's in the driveway when I got home from work

a small but growing puddle under the driver's side oil cooler. My car is 2116, January '05 build. Guess it's going on the tow truck to the dealer Monday, i.e. no driving this weekend

At least not much leaked. Though the puddle's fairly large now, it was only down 1/2 to 3/4 quart on the dip stick. Does anyone know of cars built later in the production cycle with oil cooler leaking problems?

Arno · 10-22-2005, 06:07 AM

Is it really oil?

Could also be coolant. Radiators or hose-connections sometimes fail on these cars too. Recently witnessed a spectacular radiator end-cap blowout on an Opel Speedster. Great geyser of coolant emerging from the car... (ir was idling at that time)

Bye, Arno.

09-02-2004, 05:28 AM	#1 (permalink)
Biomax Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Secret Posts: 154	Recall on oil coolers? I don't know about everyone else but with less than 200 elises delivered, and 3 reports on this board about broken/cracked oil coolers dumping oil, I'm quite concerned. Has Lotus changed manufacturers yet? What does it take to create a recall? Robert __________________ '05 Elise - NFB, Biscuit, Touring

09-02-2004, 07:18 AM	#2 (permalink)
Racer X Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: DFW, TX Posts: 591	Perhaps they are actually investigating the cause of the failure. Why change suppliers? Most companies would allow/force the current manufacturer to alter the design to avoid the problem. Let's see why it is happening before we ask for a recall. Greg __________________ Aubergine/Black, Touring, Sport, and Hardtop

09-02-2004, 09:11 AM	#3 (permalink)
MattG insert clever title here Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Living above the clouds in Colorado Posts: 7,676 Images: 11	No need to panic just yet. The fact that these are failing so early in the car's life in encouraging; it's almost certainly to be caught under warranty if it really is a widespread problem. __________________ '05 Elise, Magnetic Blue / Biscuit / Hardtop / http://eliseinfo.com Radar detector mounting brackets for sale here

09-02-2004, 11:41 AM	#4 (permalink)
Randy Chase Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Diego and where ever the roads lead Posts: 28,174 Images: 761	I think there is some investigating work and discussion back in Hethel about this. __________________ * V E R I T A S * A E Q U I T A S * No Longer the ADMIN here, please do not PM me asking for help. Thanks! 2006 Noble M400. Getrag tranny, Quaiffe LSD, Hinged clams. Duratec dual turbo V6. Hoosier 315-18 tires. 2350 pounds. Over 500hp. Track weapon. 2009 Rossion Q1. Monaco Orange. Wing. Black leather/Alcantara with orange stitching. The street car. In build: 2009 Toniq R (300whp? 1100 pounds?). Chrome Orange. Lexus GX-470 tow vehicle.

09-02-2004, 11:57 AM	#5 (permalink)
ConeFusion Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,579	You have to expect a few problems if you're one of the first to get a completely new car model. It's not exclusive to Lotus, the same thing happens to much larger manufacturers. That's what warranties are for. It's still a hassle, of course, but that's a risk you take. __________________ Reto 2005 Lotus Elise (yellow, sport pack), #94 SS 2005 Nissan Xterra (LSV)

09-02-2004, 01:59 PM	#6 (permalink)
agent.5 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA. Posts: 1,201	Relax. I think Lotus can figure it out. But it will be kind of funny if we have a recall when only a couple hundred cars are delivered.

09-02-2004, 08:28 PM	#7 (permalink)
NtflBlueLiz Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,198	It is almost a mantra in Porschephile circles to never get a first year Porsche. Recent examples that come to mind are 1995 993s (1st year) had faulty wire harnesses that lead to car fires, 1999 996s (1st year) had oil starvation problems during high speed cornering and some engines were lost and so on. Don't panic over 3 oil coolers, all car manufacturers find during the first year the bugs they didn't catch during the development and testing phases, it is totally normal in ANY price car and more so in low volume cars. The more important question is if they fix the problem and let us know about it so we may get it corrected on cars that have already been delivered. Just so you know, the problem on the 95 993s even though widely known and can be corrected under warranty is still an issue one should look at when bying a 1995 993 since many cars still haven't had the wire harnesses replaced, and the 1999 996 oil starvation problem was corrected in the following year but as far as I know all 1999 cars are subjected to it and there is no easy fix for it. There are a lot more examples like these for all cars. __________________ 2005 Nightfall Blue

09-02-2004, 08:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
agent.5 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA. Posts: 1,201	I think all the Boxsters still have RMS leaks after all these years of development. One good reason to stick with air cooled Porsches.

09-02-2004, 08:35 PM	#9 (permalink)
adamant Time to DRIVE Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 1,313 Images: 2	"All" is a little extreme. All the (12) Boxsters I know have not needed RMS work. __________________ 2006 Exige Chrome Orange

09-02-2004, 08:41 PM	#10 (permalink)
agent.5 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Francisco, CA. Posts: 1,201	I mean all model years.

09-03-2004, 12:16 AM	#11 (permalink)
Dan Elise Owner Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: (650) Posts: 686	The Miata is generally considered as the most reliable sports car in the world, but it still had/has its share of problems, including recalls. __________________ "If you think conventionally and expect the ordinary, this is not for you." —Lotus Engineering

09-03-2004, 04:21 AM	#12 (permalink)
Au111 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Traveling at the speed of lightness . . . Posts: 442	I wouldn't be so concerned, except for the location of the coolers. If one decides to let go under pressure and oils a front tire, serious mayhem may occur. I had a formula vee oil the track right in front of me yesterday and I REALLY do not want to go through that again - especially on my own oil. __________________ Cheers, Al "It is recognized that owners may wish to use the car occasionally on closed circuit tracks to experience the cars' full range of dynamic capabilities." (Elise Owner's Handbook p. 98) No truer words have ever been spoken by Lotus.

09-14-2004, 06:56 AM	#15 (permalink)
thegit Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Iowa. Posts: 1,077	I'll bet that they are simply overtorquing the aluminum fittings during the build. The push for quality control sometimes deprives otherwise skilled people of the self confidence and common sense. The problem is that these fittings tend to be unforgivable. I've seen this problem with Mocal/Setrab coolers. m.

09-14-2004, 09:28 AM	#16 (permalink)
zvezdah1 eliseaholic! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: georgia Posts: 6,773	git, This was mentioned in the oil cooler thread it was purely an assembly issue causing a slight leak at the fitting which would pool on the rubber padding on the bottom of the cooler, when the area was saturated, you'd get a steady oil drip on the floor. NO CATASTROPHIC FAILURES LIKE SPLITTING ETC> assembly process modified and they'll be issuing a bulletin on what vin range is POTENTIALLY affected. FWIW if it doesn't happen after the first few hundred miles you should be ok. You can give a squeeze to the rubber piece below the oil cooler, if it's oil soaked see your dealer. Chris __________________ Chris Club111 #3 06 Solar yellow/Touring/Traction Ctrl/Blk Whl Pkg/Strshld

09-15-2004, 09:07 AM	#17 (permalink)
thegit Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Iowa. Posts: 1,077	Yep. If you check the cooler fittings and they are dry, then they will never leak until undone or damaged. Once the fittings are overtorqued and leak, then you cannot seal the leak unless you're able to goop it, as the aluminum is gouged (This is what I mean by unforgiveable- you can't undo the damage, basically). The aluminum is thick at the fittings so will not worsen due to oil pressure. When you purchase an aftermarket oil cooler, you are exhorted not to overtorque the fittings. If the cooler matrix itself is leaking, then this has more potential for a runny leak that would quickly saturate any absorbents. This kind of leak would worsen as the tubing is thin gauged and will be exascerbated by the 80+ psi on start up and the 68-70 PSI at cold and at cruise + full throttle. This flow amount is more likely to get under a tire. m.

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09-15-2004, 09:21 AM	#18 (permalink)
zvezdah1 eliseaholic! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: georgia Posts: 6,773	Was told it's purely a fittings issue and not matrix Chris __________________ Chris Club111 #3 06 Solar yellow/Touring/Traction Ctrl/Blk Whl Pkg/Strshld

10-21-2005, 06:36 PM	#19 (permalink)
edaddy Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: SF East Bay Posts: 935 Images: 2	Having lurked on ET for some time before buying mine in August, I concluded that things like oil cooler leaks were early production issues. Guess what's in the driveway when I got home from work a small but growing puddle under the driver's side oil cooler. My car is 2116, January '05 build. Guess it's going on the tow truck to the dealer Monday, i.e. no driving this weekend At least not much leaked. Though the puddle's fairly large now, it was only down 1/2 to 3/4 quart on the dip stick. Does anyone know of cars built later in the production cycle with oil cooler leaking problems?

10-22-2005, 06:07 AM	#20 (permalink)
Arno Nerd on wheels Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,044	Is it really oil? Could also be coolant. Radiators or hose-connections sometimes fail on these cars too. Recently witnessed a spectacular radiator end-cap blowout on an Opel Speedster. Great geyser of coolant emerging from the car... (ir was idling at that time) Bye, Arno.