Consumer Reports HATES Elise!!!

[JoshS]

Originally Posted by raggedy1

It is sad to see so many Lotus cars with few miles for sale. Many bought sight unseen thinking the car looked exotic & cool. They had a rude awakening and quickly sold.

Hey, I bought the car because I thought it looked exotic and cool and would make a great second car. And I did have a rude awakening. Now you have to use a crow bar to get me out of it. And, I'm going to do the last thing I thought I'd ever do... take lessons at the track. Whoopeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!

[A2 111]

CR is about practicality not passion.

Sports cars are usually about passion.

Minivans and household appliances are about practicality.

Would you want CR picking your GF/BF? Maybe a poll required? (just kidding)

[texige]

Anyone that reads CR for buying cars has no business buying a Lotus.

As for quality, some parts of the interior look cheap but it is durable. Compare the wear on the interior between a 10,000 mile Lotus and a 10,000 mile Ferrari some time and as for noise, there is a reason it weighs 1000 lbs. less than a Cayman.

It's a no compromise car in an age of compromise.

[jermat]

Originally Posted by SKYVUE

I was in the drug store today, picked up the Car & Driver (Exige S is on the cover) and I glanced through Consumer Reports 2007 Cars and I read the evaluation about 2007 Elise. The said (basically) the Elise handles (agility) no better than a Miata, and the Elise wildly goes out of control if the limits are exceeded. Also, CR said many bad, bad things about our Elises!

I'm thinking of writing a letter to the editor, but I think it won't do anything, anyway. I drive an '05 Elise and 06 Miata (MX-5) and the handling characteristics are obviously NOT the same. Why did they attack the Elise?

--SKYVUE/STARVUE

I agree that Consumer Reports isn't going to give a favorable review to a quirky entusiast car like the Elise but it does wildly go out of control if the limits are exceeded. Just ask anyone who has spun and crashed one. There are more than a few of us. When it lets go it's sudden and without warning.

[VINSTA]

Our cars can't be compared to normal cars because they are not "normal". Driving an Elise/Exige is a rare experience most people will never have. It is way out there on the fringe of sport driving in a zone most "normal" people don't ever think about and will never understand.
In some ways, it is more appropriate to compare them to the motorcycle experience. You don't usually buy a motorcycle for mundane transportation. You buy it for an experience that creates lasting memories and puts a big fat smile on your face.
Compare an Elise/Exige to a Miata??? Are you kidding me???
When I picked up my car from Lotus of Greenwich, Nile said to me:
"You don't buy this car for what you see here; you buy it for what's underneath"
It's true that these cars have their quirks and they may not be the best value on the market. However, if you want a one-of-a-kind connection with the road and your environment, look no further. These cars are hard-ass entertainment at its best for the few.

2006 Elise Sport #46

[PhlypSide]

CR needs to stick to their domain: Home appliances. Evidently even then they're not always on point

I don't go to the mechanic's when I have a cold, nor would I go to CR for my car information

[PhlypSide]

Originally Posted by Westrock

You are exactly right. That was on Monday that I drove it, and already less then a week later I am finding a buyer for my current car....it moved me that much....

Good to hear you're moving away from FWD transportation appliances and onto true sportscars.

The test drive is the nail in the coffin for many of us. I sold a 400+rwhp car for a Lotus with less than half that. LOL!

[glb]

I disagree with many of you CR-bashers. I've been a subscriber/member since the 70s and will tell you there is no better source of info for the average consumer.

Given the amount of testing they do, there have been very few problems.

They've never lost a lawsuit, altho they did adjust a report or two. And, Suzuki did modify that car in question, IIRC.

No "enthusiast" mag tells you anything about reliability, crash tests, ins claims, etc. IMO, those mags do a disservice to their readers. *Long-term tests of a single sample are of very little value.

I remember reading the CR Elise test and thinking that they made no incorrect statements, but that we didn't care about such things. As posted above, the car can go "out of control" in a bigger way than most.

Tell me what you think they said that was untrue about the Elise.

An auto engineer friend of mine deals with CR all the time and says they are on the up and up.

CR does buy their test cars, unlike every other mag. No "massaged" samples.

*Their Reliabilty Charts use the largest sampliing in N. America, if not the world, and those have been fully accurate when applied to the cars I've owned since the 70s.

Tormac's statement makes no sense to me, as individuals cannot test products prior to buying. Their "opinons" are just that...

Last, remember that dilettantes buy sports cars too. Wouldn't many of them would certainly be better off in a Honda S2000, Miata, etc?

You may not agree with CR's opinions and results, but it's the only publication that tries to give an accurate report, independent of advertising/marketing and based on facts gleaned from actual testing.

=gb=

PS: Some of us find reliability more or less important than others. Some feel differently about safety, etc. What we need to make intelligent decisions are facts, which is what CR gives us.

[fastliz]

Originally Posted by jermat

but it does wildly go out of control if the limits are exceeded. Just ask anyone who has spun and crashed one. There are more than a few of us. When it lets go it's sudden and without warning.

I dunno. In every spin video I've seen posted / linked on ET, I've been able to accurately predict, "Here it comes!" right before the spin. There are "rules" you have to follow, and "cues" that lead up to the spin. It's just that those rules are more strict than other cars that are more forgiving.

That said, I appreciate those videos. I play them over and over to learn from them.

Mike

[fastliz]

Originally Posted by glb

As posted above, the car can go "out of control" in a bigger way than most.

This phrase has always bothered me. You hear it all the time on the evening news about crashes. Cars don't go out of control. Drivers do. Drivers FORCE cars out of control. Unless something BROKE on the car, like a suspension part or brakes, they don't just "go out of control" any more than guns go off by themselves. Someone HAS TO PULL THE TRIGGER.

I would say that DRIVERS may go out of control in a bigger way with the Elise than your typical road car, if they FORCE it beyond the laws of physics.

Mike

[antinym]

Here's what I see.
A bunch of lotus fanatics defending their idol against a logical blasphemer.

I own an exige, and I didn't buy it on any of the aspects of which consumer reports bases their opinions. Compared to a "normal car" the exige/elise fails in most areas of practicality, reliability, gas mileage, storage, maintenance, and safety.

Consumer reports rates cars in terms suitable for the general public, and as stated before, this is not car for the general public. Heck, it's not even a car for most sports car enthusiasts.

Back to the beginning of this post - I think it's funny to see the blind passion wail away against the sea of conservative rationalists.

Step back, and realize you're preaching to the choir.

[Lancia]

If they are honest, how do you explain their ignoring of major brands to include weird off brands?
Or comparison charts that would get you a failing grade in any science or statistical class anywhere?
If they don't know how to do valid testing, they could surely hire someone to tell them.
Their tactics and statements regarding the very complex area of handling cross way over the line of irresponsibility as far as I can tell.
There is a point at which you are responsible legally and ethically for what you should have known, if the excuse is ignorance.
How can you get any useful information from them?
I can rarely find products I'm interested in listed at all.

My first priority is reliability in the performance range I want.
I ask people who repair these products and who use them.

Much has been written about the problem of writing about cars you carry advertising for.
There have been articles written explaining how to translate and read between the lines in these magazines.
Independent lines are always more useful, such as Grassroots Motorsports or Buckaroo.
I can still get more useful information about a car from road and track than cr.

I haven't read the Lotus article.
Does all it say is the car breaks loose abruptly?
How abruptly?
What does that mean?
All light mid-engine cars do everything abruptly.
That's what they are for.
No warning? Really?
Is that helpful?
Is it tires?
Suspension tuning?
Bad geometry?
Do different tires change the predictability?
Is there a recall?

Is it another Susuki style 'If you push something hard enough, it will fall over' kind of statement?

I remember when all the stories about extended vans were going on, it was observed that most people drove them within their limitations.

Sort of a "Hello! Physics Still Apply!" story again.
Do they think it handles more erratically than other mid-engine cars with a similar weight distribution and mass?
Or more abrupt than a Camry?

Do they have any clue how to drive such a car in a corner?

Remember the Corvair tests that are so famous?
It came out later that they were faked.
They were twitching the car to break the rear end loose.
Does everyone make it through the corner at the same speed, even in the same car?
I can't even buy that they are just bumbling.

[Serebo1]

Originally Posted by antinym

Compared to a "normal car" the exige/elise fails in most areas of practicality, reliability, gas mileage, storage, maintenance, and safety.

Will you please explain your claim of sub-standard safety?

[ScaldedDog]

Originally Posted by SKYVUE

I was in the drug store today, picked up the Car & Driver (Exige S is on the cover) and I glanced through Consumer Reports 2007 Cars and I read the evaluation about 2007 Elise. The said (basically) the Elise handles (agility) no better than a Miata, and the Elise wildly goes out of control if the limits are exceeded. Also, CR said many bad, bad things about our Elises!:

My experience with Consumer Reports greatly conflicts with any car that is not from Japan. They reported that the Datsun was a great car for example. It was so bad that Nissan pulled the name from the market.

They greatly under report reliability, safety and the maintenance and repair costs for Japanese cars compared to US makes.

[Devious]

I am a regular CR subscriber. The following is from the latest issue, and nothing I wouldn't expect:


Consumer Reports, April 2007 issue, page 64:

"Lotus Elise
The Elise is a quick, lightweight, mid-engined roadster. Its 4.6-second 0-60 mph time is very quick, yet the car gets 29 mpg overall. Power comes from a 190-hp, 1.8-liter four-cylinder supplied by Toyota. The engine needs to be revved to deliver real punch. The Elise is agile but no more so than the Mazda Miata or Porsche Boxster. Cornering limits are very high, but the car is hard to control once past them. You might also have to put up with a harsh, noisy ride; a tight austere interior; a clunky shifter; and difficult cabin access. The canvas top is a nuisance to fold. The Exige is a more powerful coupe version of the Elise."

Also in the same issue:
Page 12 "Best & Worst"

Quickest Vehicles
Model...............................seconds to 60 mph
1 Dodge Viper SRT10........... 4.2
2 Chevrolet Corvette Z06..... 4.3
3 Porsche 911 Carrera S...... 4.4
4 Lotus Elise ..................... 4.6
5 Chevrolet Corvette........... 5.0
6 Subaru Impreza WRX STI... 5.2


Dry Breaking
Model............................... ft
1 Porsche Boxster 2.7......... 112
2 Dodge Viper SRT10.......... 113
Porsche 911 Carrera S........ 113
3 Mazda RX-8................... 117
BMW Z4 3.0i..................... 117
Lotus Elise....................... 117

Least Comfortable
Didge Viper SRT10
Jeep Wrangler
Lotus Elise
Smart ForTwo

Avoidance Maneuver
Model.............................. mph
1 Porsche 911 Carrera S..... 59.5
2 Mini Cooper Conv. S........ 57.5
Mazda MX-5 Miata............. 57.5
Porsche Boxster 2.7........... 57.5
3 Dodge Viper SRT10.......... 57.0
Honda S2000.................... 57.0
Lotus Elise........................ 57.0
Nissan 350Z (convertable)... 57.5
Volkswagon GTI................. 57.0

[Serebo1]

Originally Posted by Devious

The Exige is a more powerful coupe version of the Elise.

[SKYVUE]

I'm not defending Elise for sake of practicality vs passion, etc.
There were two statements CR published that bothered me.
1. An Elise is "no better than a Miata as to agility".
2. Elise goes "wildly out of control when exceeded the limits".

#2 Covered by fastliz's elequent posts: "Driver error"
#1 Miata and Elise have completely different "agility". We know that.

Lotus Elise is a passionate sports car for enthusiasts. Lotus drivers are passionate too. We know the quirks and the compromises. But those two statements certainly bothered me. If you read the actual "report", you might have felt a bit different.

--SKYVUE

[Lancia]

The car is hard to control past the cornering limits?
Aren't they all?


Do you think the braking comparisons are valid?

[Brennon]

Avoidance Maneuver
Model.............................. mph
1 Porsche 911 Carrera S..... 59.5
2 Mini Cooper Conv. S........ 57.5
Mazda MX-5 Miata............. 57.5
Porsche Boxster 2.7........... 57.5
3 Dodge Viper SRT10.......... 57.0
Honda S2000.................... 57.0
Lotus Elise........................ 57.0
Nissan 350Z (convertable)... 57.5
Volkswagon GTI................. 57.0[/quote]

There's not a chance a 350z or a GTI is as good at avoidance manuevering as is an elise. Not that either are bad cars, but the 350Z has an extra 1600 lbs to lug around.

[Allan Gibbs]

Originally Posted by SKYVUE

I'm not defending Elise for sake of practicality vs passion, etc.
There were two statements CR published that bothered me.
1. An Elise is "no better than a Miata as to agility".
2. Elise goes "wildly out of control when exceeded the limits".

#2 Covered by fastliz's elequent posts: "Driver error"
#1 Miata and Elise have completely different "agility". We know that.

Lotus Elise is a passionate sports car for enthusiasts. Lotus drivers are passionate too. We know the quirks and the compromises. But those two statements certainly bothered me. If you read the actual "report", you might have felt a bit different.

--SKYVUE

Well, when reading the excerpt from car and driver, I think I can see where they're coming from. Agility is relative. When you're comparing and SUV or full size sedan to a sports car (which is CR's reference), the agility of the Elise isn't that much different from a Boxster or Miata because of the size. They're not talking about 9/10ths driving here.

As for the hard to control past the limits, they're referring to the typical characteristic of a a mid-engine car.