Consumer Reports HATES Elise!!!

[Devious]

Originally Posted by Chris D.

Actually, this part of the review did surprise me. I would expect the most nimble cars to excel in an avoidance maneuver test. Yet, I've never heard anyone describe a Viper as being more nimble than a Lotus.

Overall, I would suggest that CR should stick to reviewing mass production cars. There is no way they will ever get enough data on the Lotus (although I did rate mine the last time they surveyed) to provide reliability ratings.

The problem is that I have no clue as to what the 'Avoidance Maneuver' test requires. I have read throught he issue a couple of times and could not find any details. It COULD simply be a wide slalom, a chicane, or even something even less able to show the abilities of the Lotus. It could also likely be the driver of the test vehicles abilities and how comfortable he/she was at pushing the Elise harder.

It doesn't phase me one bit that CR did not like the Elise. Based on what and how they reviewed cars in the past, it would shock me if they did like the Elise. I bought mine for the same reason others avoid the Lotus. The Elise isn't perfect, but it is very close for me, and what I wanted. It definately has a lot of character. And I like the fact that is isn't loved by all test drivers - especially CR test drivers.

[jermat]

Originally Posted by fastliz

This phrase has always bothered me. You hear it all the time on the evening news about crashes. Cars don't go out of control. Drivers do. Drivers FORCE cars out of control. Unless something BROKE on the car, like a suspension part or brakes, they don't just "go out of control" any more than guns go off by themselves. Someone HAS TO PULL THE TRIGGER.

I would say that DRIVERS may go out of control in a bigger way with the Elise than your typical road car, if they FORCE it beyond the laws of physics.

Mike

The point is that most other cars are alot more forgiving once their limits have been exceeded. They are easier to "reel in" so to speak. The Elise swaps ends so fast it will make your head spin (literally). Once it snaps forget it. You're along for the ride until it comes to rest. If you haven't experienced this good for you. I also thought I was an incredible driver and invinsibe once.

[FlyLo]

I haven't seen anything in Consumer Reports that is incorrect about the Elise.

We simply look past the "quirks" because we have different priorities.

"This exhilarating, bare-bones, midengine car is designed for the track, and isn't a realistic alternative to most day-to-day roadsters. "

Highs: Acceleration, go-kart agility, braking, high handling limits, fuel economy.
Lows: Ride, driving position, visibility, noise, unforgiving at handling limits, access, seat comfort, no passenger air-bag cutoff.


FWIW, my TT is much more forgiving at the limit. If I overdo it, the car understeers and the ESP kicks in, saving my butt. The Elise spins.

There are "reasons" for this behavior, but that doesn't change the fact that it occurs.

If CR were off the deep end, there would have been fewer '05s dumped on the marker after just a couple thousand miles.

The CR reviews should be required reading for any prospective Elise owner.

Here's more:

The ride is stiff and nervous, and even the smallest bumps transmit into the cabin. The engine buzz is unpleasant. Road, wind, and engine noise mix together to make it the noisiest car we've tested in recent memory. At open throttle it recorded a nearly unbearable 88 decibels. Quick steering and a tiny steering wheel give the Elise a go-kart feel, but the manual steering lacks feel around the center. On our track, it showed very high levels of tire grip that most drivers are unlikely to approach. However, if you lift off the throttle in mid-corner at the limit, the Elise will enter an abrupt tail slide that can result in a spinout. The 190-hp, 1.8-liter four-cylinder engine produced the best acceleration times we've ever recorded. The six-speed manual has long throws and feels clunky. The 29 mpg overall fuel economy is very good. Overall braking is excellent, but there's about an inch of play in the pedal before braking kicks in. Headlight performance is poor.

The Elise's interior trim befits a racecar, not a $45,000 upscale roadster. Aluminum framework is exposed and the plastic trim is hard and flimsy. The optional full carpet set is just two small mats that attach with Velcro. The Elise has the most restrictive driving position of just about any car we've tested. Foot room is nearly nonexistent and the narrow wells skew legs to the center of the car. The pedals are frustratingly close together and it's easy to hit the brake pedal and the accelerator simultaneously. The low seating position, small windows, and wide rear roof pillar compromise visibility. The Elise's seats are narrow, basic-leather clad with a little padding stretched over a metal frame. The driver's seat slides fore/aft, but the passenger seat is fixed. Graceful cabin entry is impossible. The controls seem like an afterthought. Even starting the car is a confusing process. The radio is a collection of tiny buttons and the climate-control system is ineffective. Don't expect a remote hood release or rear defroster. Weather conditions dictate the temperature of the cabin's metal pieces. Interior storage is nonexistent. Two small duffels can fit in the trunk. There is no spare tire.

Could have come straight off EliseTalk.

[LARRY]

Most restrictive driving position?

Alot of cars are alot worse....

Let's leave the Lotus reviews to the car magazines. They seem to love us.

[Lancia]

Did they mention the lack of an lsd?
Now that's outrageous!

[Alphonse]

Originally Posted by Westrock

For the same price as a new Exige you can get a slightly used Esprit which has alot of the creature comforts and has the power. But I just don't trust that Lotus "quality" enough to have one of their engines in the car. Plus it doesn't have that rediculous look to it .

Westrock,

I was with you up to the above point. I have a 89 Esprit and as engines go, the 4 cylinder Esprit motors are tough. I've got approx. 91K miles on my car and the engine has not had a bit of work done to it.
The car is not a garage queen. In the last couple of years the car has been used on the track and in Auto-X. Neither of which babies the motor.
Don't be so hasty to slam the 4 pot motor. Properly maintained they are the best thing about the Esprits.
I cannot speak for the 8 cylinder versions as I do not own one.

The problem with CR as I see it is that they lump cars all into the same category without any consideration for what the cars were designed for.
With that, yes the Elise/Exige or any other Lotus will favor poorly in the Cr assesments.
Considering that CR is not primarily an automobile focused publication I would take their judgements with a grain of salt.
Especially in the area of performance cars. Now if we are talking about mini-vans, (the four wheeled version of a household appliance, just my opinion there), then I would place a bit more value on Cr's write-ups.

Al (slightly sensitive about Esprits ;-P) B.

[Serebo1]

Originally Posted by antinym

Granted, at times I feel safer because I can out-manuver obsticals and other drivers, but a lotus drivers head is at bumper level to most SUV's out there.
Fortunatly, there aren't enough crash statistics on the elise/exige in the real world. And I'm guessing that these cars are driven less, yet more carefully than others.

Imagine this - you are stopped at an intersection, and an oncoming Ford Expedition wanders out of it's lane and crashes head on into you at 40 mph. Rate the following cars that you feel are the most safe to be in.
a. Ford Expedition, b. Mercedes ML320, c. volvo s60, d. honda accord. e. lotus elise.

We are in a car that can easily go under 50% of the vehicles on the road. I would say, that doesn't make it near the top on my safety list.

It wasn't an Expedition, granted, but still a 4-door toyota. The crash was nearly head-on. The closing speed was ~60 mph. I walked away. Two people in the Toyota went to the hospital in an Ambulance.

Perception and reality are sometimes two different things. Consider the size of a Formula 1 cockpit and the accidents they walk away from at 180+ mph.

Based on the above scenario, I'd go with "E" every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Rugbyduck]

Originally Posted by mopho

You clearly cannot separate defending your purchase with reality.

Quite possibly. I don't feel that it is "the worst quality car" in America. I cannot defend the car against that?

Originally Posted by mopho

While worst in America is arguably an exaggeration, the build quality is pretty bad.

Guess you agree too.

Originally Posted by mopho

BUT, the point Westrock really made is that a certain and limited "breed" of driver is willing to overlook all that because the car is so much fun. Did you miss all that?

Guess I did miss where he said "I really mean this but not so much this."

Originally Posted by mopho

hypocrisy |hi'päkris'| noun ( pl. -sies) the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.
You chastised people for judging ANS in the other thread, yet here you are judging westrock and now me

I hate when people throw out the inevitable smartass definition. Like I don't know what it means...you still never explained how what I said about ANS and your thoughts has anything to do with this. How am I judging you? Like you are above that in not judging me? Just lump me in with the people you want to bully...Agree to disagree.

[mopho]

Originally Posted by Rugbyduck

Quite possibly. I don't feel that it is "the worst quality car" in America. I cannot defend the car against that?

You could have done it without the flames and the name calling

I hate when people throw out the inevitable smartass definition. Like I don't know what it means...you still never explained how what I said about ANS and your thoughts has anything to do with this. How am I judging you? Like you are above that in not judging me? Just lump me in with the people you want to bully...Agree to disagree.

I had explained it to you a bunch of times already and yet you still don't get, so I felt you needed the definition

PS your obnoxious use of emocons just makes you more irritating

[LBC111]

The last time I trusted Consumer Reports:

My best friend and I bought two vastly different vehicles in the same month of 1994. Mine was an '05 Jeep Wrangler 6cyl 4L Manual. His was an '05 Lexus.

CR rated his as a "Best Pick" with quite impressive stats. Possibly as the best rated vehicles of that edition.
CR rated mine basically as a piece of junk. Quite possibly one of the worst rated vehicles of that edition.

His car: In for warranty service for MOST of the first 6 months of ownership, and then on-and-off a lot for the next 2 years. Dozens of warranty problems.

My car: Completely trouble-free for the first 5 years, then after 120,000 miles, replaced front brake pads, water pump, and new belts, with a major tune-up. Continued to run strong and solid 'till the day I sold it (big mistake )

Before that I bought a phone and a juicer from them that were rated as "Best Picks" or "Best Buys" or whatever. They were both pieces of junk!

Consumer Reports - Worse Pick.

[Lancia]

IRONY-To be made of iron or have the appearance and feel of iron.

[glb]

Originally Posted by LBC111

The last time I trusted Consumer Reports:

My best friend and I bought two vastly different vehicles in the same month of 1994. Mine was an '05 Jeep Wrangler 6cyl 4L Manual. His was an '05 Lexus.

CR rated his as a "Best Pick" with quite impressive stats. Possibly as the best rated vehicles of that edition.
CR rated mine basically as a piece of junk. Quite possibly one of the worst rated vehicles of that edition.

His car: In for warranty service for MOST of the first 6 months of ownership, and then on-and-off a lot for the next 2 years. Dozens of warranty problems.

My car: Completely trouble-free for the first 5 years, then after 120,000 miles, replaced front brake pads, water pump, and new belts, with a major tune-up. Continued to run strong and solid 'till the day I sold it (big mistake )

Before that I bought a phone and a juicer from them that were rated as "Best Picks" or "Best Buys" or whatever. They were both pieces of junk!

Consumer Reports - Worse Pick.

And, this proves what to you? That occasionally Lexus builds a bad car and sometimes Jeep builds a decent Wrangler?

Such are the vagaries of mass production. Production runs can often look like a bell curve, with bad examples at one end and good at the other.

In general, Lexus builds much more reliable cars than Jeep/Chrysler, i.e. their production run curves would not be similar. Moreover, a sampling of two is of no value.

Did you test the phone and juicer against other brands? Maybe the others were worse pcs of junk.

Why do I feel like Mr. Spock on this thread? Wasn’t that the logical guy on “Star Trek”?

[SKYVUE]

glb: Do you have pointed ears?

Nothing matters in life except 0-60 times.
1.5 years from now, I'll reach 60!
Then it's downhill. I've got to reach Nirvana before the time is up!
After that I'll be on borrowed time.

Nothing matters in life except 0-60 acceleration.
That's it. Who cares about handling?
Who cares about style, looks, reliability blah blah blah?
The only thing is 0-60!
I want it and I WANT IT NOW!!
Exige S gets closer to Nirvana, but I need MORE!
I'm thinking of installing a jet engine replacing the 4 banger in my Elise.

CR knows that acceleration is important.
"The 190-hp, 1.8-liter four-cylinder engine produced the best acceleration times we've ever recorded."
If it's good for CR it's good for me too!

hmmm....

Didn't Nirvana's lead singer died 20 years ago?
SEE! I told you so!

--Crazy SKYVUE

[LBC111]

Originally Posted by glb

And, this proves what to you? That occasionally Lexus builds a bad car and sometimes Jeep builds a decent Wrangler?

It proves to me that I can't trust Consumer Reports.

Originally Posted by glb

Such are the vagaries of mass production. Production runs can often look like a bell curve, with bad examples at one end and good at the other.

In general, Lexus builds much more reliable cars than Jeep/Chrysler, i.e. their production run curves would not be similar. Moreover, a sampling of two is of no value.

Uhmmm.. well, maybe so with the Lexus, but I specifically chose this particularly configured Jeep based on impressions I learned of from other owners.

Originally Posted by glb

Did you test the phone and juicer against other brands? Maybe the others were worse pcs of junk.

No.. I don't get paid to test products against other brands. I EXPECT OTHER SOURCES LIKE CONSUMER REPORTS TO PROVIDE THAT INFORMATION TO ME SO I CAN MAKE A "WELL INFORMED" DECISION AS A CONSUMER, NOT A PRODUCT RESEARCHER!

[XPcarguy]

Yep. I like to look it like this. If it's a part that would regularly be found on a racecar, it will be very well built and reliable. If it's a part that you would never see on a racecar, it will likely be thrown on as an after thought. It will be cheap, ugly, and flimsy.

And didn't Colin Chapman once say "If it doesn't break every now and then, it's too heavy."?

[LARRY]

If you want a car that looks EXACTLY like a Sears dishwasher, read Consumer Reports.

[RegGuy]

I agree. This car is not for most people. I can hardly breath after a fun drive in it I enjoy it that much. Others can't wait to get out of it, I can't wait to get back into it and drive again.

This should be required reading for anyone considering the Elise. If they can read that and say who cares, have you driven it!? Then they are a Lotus driver. For me it's the car I've waited for.

Originally Posted by FlyLo

I haven't seen anything in Consumer Reports that is incorrect about the Elise.

We simply look past the "quirks" because we have different priorities.

"This exhilarating, bare-bones, midengine car is designed for the track, and isn't a realistic alternative to most day-to-day roadsters. "

Highs: Acceleration, go-kart agility, braking, high handling limits, fuel economy.
Lows: Ride, driving position, visibility, noise, unforgiving at handling limits, access, seat comfort, no passenger air-bag cutoff.


FWIW, my TT is much more forgiving at the limit. If I overdo it, the car understeers and the ESP kicks in, saving my butt. The Elise spins.

There are "reasons" for this behavior, but that doesn't change the fact that it occurs.

If CR were off the deep end, there would have been fewer '05s dumped on the marker after just a couple thousand miles.

The CR reviews should be required reading for any prospective Elise owner.

Here's more:


Could have come straight off EliseTalk.

[milehitom]

[quote=RegGuy]I agree. This car is not for most people...Others can't wait to get out of it...[quote=RegGuy]

Yeah, one way or another, most people can get out of mine.

Originally Posted by RegGuy

This should be required reading for anyone considering the Elise. If they can read that and say who cares, have you driven it!? Then they are a Lotus driver. For me it's the car I've waited for.

I agree. And FlyLo is right when he quoted the review and said it's basically a list of comments right off our site.

As for losing it the limits of its handling capabilities, I look at it this way: my former rwd front-engined sports cars "talked" to me very clearly before I was going to lose control. That's because those were the only cars I drove, so I was very familiar with their handling characteristics. Plus, they'd lose it at lower speeds, in less tight corners, as compared to the Elise. The Elise talks to me, if not in another language, at least with a foreign accent, and it breaks loose at much higher speeds on much tighter corners, where all mistakes are magnified. I could "save" it easier in one of my previous rwd cars because I was going slower when it broke free.

Consumer Reports is for consumers. We are in some different group when it comes to this car.

Tom

[Serebo1]

Posted this earlier, but I feel I should do it again. So I am. Lotus "viral" starring Tony Shute and Nick Adams, the "Mom and Dad" of the Elise.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7XzBI2iN5UA"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7XzBI2iN5UA" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

[xtn]

Originally Posted by LARRY

If you want a car that looks EXACTLY like a Sears dishwasher, read Consumer Reports.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allstate_(automobile)