December Car and Driver Preview 2005 Elise - Page 2 - LotusTalk

Randy Chase · 11-02-2003, 07:52 AM

http://www.cpdserver.com/elisetalk/m...er/cdpage1.jpg

http://www.cpdserver.com/elisetalk/m...er/cdpage2.jpg

atyclb · 11-03-2003, 06:22 PM

What color do we think that is? Cobalt Blue slightly enhanced maybe?

Magnetic Blue?

Dan · 11-03-2003, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by atyclb
What color do we think that is? Cobalt Blue slightly enhanced maybe?

Magnetic Blue?

It may be Blue Mica.

RacingDynamcs · 11-04-2003, 06:24 AM

its Heavier and its the fastest elise ever?? IS that what i read in the aricle?

atyclb · 11-04-2003, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan
It may be Blue Mica.

ooooh, I like it.

I need to know what my color choices will be!!!!!!!!

adamant · 11-04-2003, 08:07 AM

To be honest, the 0-60 figures really don't bother me, what REALLY does is that the weight has gone up so much and keeps creeping!
What I would really love to know is where all this weight went. I think I can account for about 150lbs with the engine change.
For a car that has a chassis that weighs 150lbs and GRP body, why is this car getting close to the weight of an MR2!!!
I just don't understand it. I really wanted a car in the 1600-1700lb range. Don't get me wrong I still think this will be a great car, but a lot of my initial excitement has ebbed.

smoseley · 11-04-2003, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by adamant
I just don't understand it. I really wanted a car in the 1600-1700lb range. Don't get me wrong I still think this will be a great car, but a lot of my initial excitement has ebbed.

Just remove the sand bags they're adding beneath the frame and you should be set ;-)

zvezdah1 · 11-04-2003, 09:14 AM

Adamant the real world weights of the S2 are over 1700 pounds, no chance of it being lighter than that.

Here's the link to a post earlier showing real world weights of cars done at a SELOC rolling road. Both S1 and S2s are featured.

http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...+world+weights

Chris

smoseley · 11-04-2003, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zvezdah1
Adamant the real world weights of the S2 are over 1700 pounds, no chance of it being lighter than that.

Yeah, cause you can't remove the passenger seat, or air conditioning, or stereo, or other unnecessary weight... the car has a magical lower limit of 1700 lbs.

RacingDynamcs · 11-04-2003, 10:14 AM

IF you look at the s1 with 1600lb and s2 with 1700-1800lb's the result is the s2 is 2 seconds quicker than the s1 on the lotus test track...

transio what did u mean by this "Just remove the sand bags they're adding beneath the frame and you should be set ;-)" please explain !?

jml1952 · 11-04-2003, 10:18 AM

If the car is too minimal, Lotus will never sell 3000 cars per year. More like 50-100 or so to the weight-loss fanatics here.

Personally, I have no preconceived notion of how much the car should or shouldn't weigh. I trust Lotus to produce a great handling car, and that seems to be confimed by the reports from Chris after he drove the US-spec version. I would imagine that Lotus will try to come in under 2000 pounds, since that will sound good in comparison to competing models out there. But I doubt if they are worried about whether it weighs 1800, 1900 or 1975 pounds; I would assume that they are more concerned about the total package and how it stacks up to the other choices available.

Similarly, I suspect that the base price will come in under $40K to make it attractive compared to other choices.

I've said it before, but despite the vocal group of racer types posting here and elsewhere, most of the potential buyers do not fall into that group. So Lotus cannot design the car primarily to meet your needs and desires.

smoseley · 11-04-2003, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RacingDynamcs
transio what did u mean by this "Just remove the sand bags they're adding beneath the frame and you should be set ;-)" please explain !?

2000 lbs (US weight) - 1700 lbs (UK weight) = 300 mysterious lbs... it's gotta be coming from SOMEWHERE, and no one else has come up with a more reasonable explanation

Actually, I think it's probably coming from comfort add-ons... A/C, Stereo, power windows and doorlocks, cushier seats, etc... those things add up (you'd be surprised !!!)

smoseley · 11-04-2003, 11:33 AM

What would be really amusing is if they offered a "sport package" that eliminated all the add-ons and cost more money... you'd essentially be paying them to undo the crap they did for the rest of us spoiled Americans

babak · 11-04-2003, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by transio
What would be really amusing is if they offered a "sport package" that eliminated all the add-ons and cost more money... you'd essentially be paying them to undo the crap they did for the rest of us spoiled Americans

I smell an aftermarket enterprise opportunity here, now where did I leave my copy of Rules of Aquisition!"

jeffc · 11-04-2003, 01:55 PM

Curb weight of cars can be highly subjective, especially when you consider all the car shows, magazines, testers, etc. have different measurement conditions. Some weigh the car with a driver but a half tank of fuel. Some measure with a full tank of fuel but no driver. Some measure with everything full up, a driver in racing gear and full test equipment. Some measure the car dry (like a manufacturer might).

So the quoted weights can be all over the place. If different sources quote the car with different weights, it doesn't mean the weight is "creeping up" all on it's own. It probably means the measurement conditions are different.

That said, I too am disappointed that the weight has increased somewhat over Elise S1 and S2. Most of the added weight is probably due to adding air conditioning, and the plumbing and larger radiators that go along with it. Power window lifts probably don't add that much weight and certainly make some aspects of packaging easier. Radio adds some too, but not a lot. Even with the minorly porcine pretentions, the new car should be fantastic to drive.

The link to tested weights is interesting:
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...+world+weights

but be aware that the driver will add enough kilos to round up to the next hundred at least. With cars this light, the driver and passenger weight are significant. Time to go on that diet.

smoseley · 11-04-2003, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jeffc
Most of the added weight is probably due to adding air conditioning, and the plumbing and larger radiators that go along with it. Power window lifts probably don't add that much weight and certainly make some aspects of packaging easier. Radio adds some too, but not a lot.

Since we're talking about AVERAGE weight differential here, I wouldn't think the drivers or fuel make any difference for the Fed. Elise.

The A/C and radiator are indeed probably the biggest addition in weight, but definitely worth it for those who are looking for daily drivers. The rest of you mugs can promptly rip them out and save weight AND increase HP at the same time.

A three-to-five-speaker stereo system with a nice subwoofer can weigh quite a few pounds (30 or so?).

The power windows and doorlocks and cushy seats probably don't add all that much, but I'd guess somewhere in the range of 10 pounds or so for the lot.

jeffc · 11-04-2003, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by transio
Since we're talking about AVERAGE weight differential here, I wouldn't think the drivers or fuel make any difference for the Fed. Elise.
[...]

A three-to-five-speaker stereo system with a nice subwoofer can weigh quite a few pounds (30 or so?).

[...] cushy seats probably don't add all that much

I suspect the stereo will have 2 small speakers, or so we can hope. The seat I believe is the same as the rest of the world, i.e. thin and light.

Drivers and fuel make a huge difference in the weight of a particular car; easily a hundred kilos difference. My main point is that unless we know the exact conditions of the measurements, we can't really say how much the older and newer cars differ in weight. If one magazine quotes and S1 dry at 1650 lbs and another an S3 full up at 2000 lbs, we don't really know how much their test equipment, driver or fuel added. Even the factory is somewhat coy about its citation of official weights. Certainly the earliest S1 prototypes or design goals were lighter than the resulting street cars.

zvezdah1 · 11-04-2003, 02:15 PM

Yep, I'll gladly sacrifice a tenth or two off my zero to sixty time (that I'll never make an attempt at anyway

) to have some small degree of comfort when driving the car around town.

Believe a couple summers in my caterham with roasted legs (only a thin piece of alum between legs and engine and that 2 liter vauxhall put out some heat) makes me glad to have the A/C in the upcoming "portly" elise

Chris

Who will measure the quality of his Elise by how many thousands of MILES a year he drives it, not the number of laps a half dozen weekends a year.

smoseley · 11-04-2003, 03:16 PM

If lotus itself is being hush hush about the weight, they're probably not telling us something intentionally so they don't raise any eyebrows (e.g. the car weighs less than the DoT is comfortable with and they're hoping to slip it by?) I for one can live with something like that

and so won't complain if we don't get any real specs prior to delivery

jeffc · 11-04-2003, 03:46 PM

Hi Steve, I think you may have misinterpreted my meaning. Lotus doesn't always publish exact specs on the car weights, at least from what I can see on their web pages. If no official specs are out on the new car it's not necessarily because they're trying to "hide" something, though I'm sure they wish they didn't need to add air condtioning and lots of other stuff. It could just be that the details haven't been finalized and gotten to the marketing folks, etc.

11-02-2003, 07:52 AM	#21 (permalink)
Randy Chase Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: San Diego and where ever the roads lead Posts: 28,175 Images: 761	http://www.cpdserver.com/elisetalk/m...er/cdpage1.jpg http://www.cpdserver.com/elisetalk/m...er/cdpage2.jpg __________________ * V E R I T A S * A E Q U I T A S * No Longer the ADMIN here, please do not PM me asking for help. Thanks! 2006 Noble M400. Getrag tranny, Quaiffe LSD, Hinged clams. Duratec dual turbo V6. Hoosier 315-18 tires. 2350 pounds. Over 500hp. Track weapon. 2009 Rossion Q1. Monaco Orange. Wing. Black leather/Alcantara with orange stitching. The street car. In build: 2009 Toniq R (300whp? 1100 pounds?). Chrome Orange. Lexus GX-470 tow vehicle.

11-04-2003, 06:24 AM	#24 (permalink)
RacingDynamcs Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 237	its Heavier and its the fastest elise ever?? IS that what i read in the aricle? Last edited by RacingDynamcs : 11-04-2003 at 06:28 AM.

11-04-2003, 08:07 AM	#26 (permalink)
adamant Time to DRIVE Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 1,313 Images: 2	To be honest, the 0-60 figures really don't bother me, what REALLY does is that the weight has gone up so much and keeps creeping! What I would really love to know is where all this weight went. I think I can account for about 150lbs with the engine change. For a car that has a chassis that weighs 150lbs and GRP body, why is this car getting close to the weight of an MR2!!! I just don't understand it. I really wanted a car in the 1600-1700lb range. Don't get me wrong I still think this will be a great car, but a lot of my initial excitement has ebbed. __________________ 2006 Exige Chrome Orange

11-04-2003, 09:14 AM	#28 (permalink)
zvezdah1 eliseaholic! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: georgia Posts: 6,773	Adamant the real world weights of the S2 are over 1700 pounds, no chance of it being lighter than that. Here's the link to a post earlier showing real world weights of cars done at a SELOC rolling road. Both S1 and S2s are featured. http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...+world+weights Chris Last edited by zvezdah1 : 11-04-2003 at 09:27 AM.

11-04-2003, 11:33 AM	#33 (permalink)
smoseley Bubble Boy Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 12,132 Images: 8	What would be really amusing is if they offered a "sport package" that eliminated all the add-ons and cost more money... you'd essentially be paying them to undo the crap they did for the rest of us spoiled Americans __________________ - Steve Transio - Software Development & Web Design, Miami, FL

11-03-2003, 06:22 PM	#22 (permalink)
atyclb htdaab Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,830	What color do we think that is? Cobalt Blue slightly enhanced maybe? Magnetic Blue?

11-04-2003, 10:14 AM	#30 (permalink)
RacingDynamcs Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 237	IF you look at the s1 with 1600lb and s2 with 1700-1800lb's the result is the s2 is 2 seconds quicker than the s1 on the lotus test track... transio what did u mean by this "Just remove the sand bags they're adding beneath the frame and you should be set ;-)" please explain !?

11-04-2003, 10:18 AM	#31 (permalink)
jml1952 Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Westlake Village, CA Posts: 2,154	If the car is too minimal, Lotus will never sell 3000 cars per year. More like 50-100 or so to the weight-loss fanatics here. Personally, I have no preconceived notion of how much the car should or shouldn't weigh. I trust Lotus to produce a great handling car, and that seems to be confimed by the reports from Chris after he drove the US-spec version. I would imagine that Lotus will try to come in under 2000 pounds, since that will sound good in comparison to competing models out there. But I doubt if they are worried about whether it weighs 1800, 1900 or 1975 pounds; I would assume that they are more concerned about the total package and how it stacks up to the other choices available. Similarly, I suspect that the base price will come in under $40K to make it attractive compared to other choices. I've said it before, but despite the vocal group of racer types posting here and elsewhere, most of the potential buyers do not fall into that group. So Lotus cannot design the car primarily to meet your needs and desires.

11-04-2003, 01:55 PM	#35 (permalink)
jeffc Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 40	But weight, there's more... :( Curb weight of cars can be highly subjective, especially when you consider all the car shows, magazines, testers, etc. have different measurement conditions. Some weigh the car with a driver but a half tank of fuel. Some measure with a full tank of fuel but no driver. Some measure with everything full up, a driver in racing gear and full test equipment. Some measure the car dry (like a manufacturer might). So the quoted weights can be all over the place. If different sources quote the car with different weights, it doesn't mean the weight is "creeping up" all on it's own. It probably means the measurement conditions are different. That said, I too am disappointed that the weight has increased somewhat over Elise S1 and S2. Most of the added weight is probably due to adding air conditioning, and the plumbing and larger radiators that go along with it. Power window lifts probably don't add that much weight and certainly make some aspects of packaging easier. Radio adds some too, but not a lot. Even with the minorly porcine pretentions, the new car should be fantastic to drive. The link to tested weights is interesting: http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/show...+world+weights but be aware that the driver will add enough kilos to round up to the next hundred at least. With cars this light, the driver and passenger weight are significant. Time to go on that diet. Last edited by jeffc : 11-04-2003 at 01:58 PM.

11-04-2003, 02:15 PM	#38 (permalink)
zvezdah1 eliseaholic! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: georgia Posts: 6,773	Yep, I'll gladly sacrifice a tenth or two off my zero to sixty time (that I'll never make an attempt at anyway ) to have some small degree of comfort when driving the car around town. Believe a couple summers in my caterham with roasted legs (only a thin piece of alum between legs and engine and that 2 liter vauxhall put out some heat) makes me glad to have the A/C in the upcoming "portly" elise Chris Who will measure the quality of his Elise by how many thousands of MILES a year he drives it, not the number of laps a half dozen weekends a year.

11-04-2003, 03:16 PM	#39 (permalink)
smoseley Bubble Boy Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 12,132 Images: 8	If lotus itself is being hush hush about the weight, they're probably not telling us something intentionally so they don't raise any eyebrows (e.g. the car weighs less than the DoT is comfortable with and they're hoping to slip it by?) I for one can live with something like that and so won't complain if we don't get any real specs prior to delivery __________________ - Steve Transio - Software Development & Web Design, Miami, FL

11-04-2003, 03:46 PM	#40 (permalink)
jeffc Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 40	Hi Steve, I think you may have misinterpreted my meaning. Lotus doesn't always publish exact specs on the car weights, at least from what I can see on their web pages. If no official specs are out on the new car it's not necessarily because they're trying to "hide" something, though I'm sure they wish they didn't need to add air condtioning and lots of other stuff. It could just be that the details haven't been finalized and gotten to the marketing folks, etc.

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