Europa S review

[lateapex]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...topanel..3.*#3

He doesn't like it. No surprise since it's a misfire.
Good thing they aren't bringing it over. It's a $77,000 way to kill off Lotus in the States.

[Mean TT]

I agree. Any 80K dollar car that claims to be a sports car needs to be able to sprint to 60 in less than 5 seconds.

I would rather the R8 Audi ir RS4 or maybe even a Jeep Cherokee SRT8 and an EVO for that a mount of money.

I posted this in another thread, but in a few years, the Elise will be completely outdated.

In the 25,000-35,000 category there will be:

EVO, STI, Sky, Miata, Solstace, Supra and its 350 hp 3200 lbs, a 350+ hp and the Nissan Z.

For 35,000 to 45,000

Z2 BMW 270 hp and 2000 pounds, Light weight Audi if the decide to build it (1800 pounds 220 hp), MB 350s, the Return of the RX-7 and Audi TT

45,000-60,000

Boxter, Caymen, Elise, Exige (S maybe road legal) RS4, S4, Z06

For 60,000+

Europa? Esprit? Baby Buigatti 280 hp 2500 lbs and looks to kill for, R8, Alpha 8C for a lot of money, GT-R and a few others.


I think that Lotus needs to add power to everything. It may be difficult to make a lightweight car, but it is relatively easy to put more power into one. Lotus is about to get outclasses and outperformed on just about every level. Let's not forget about price/value.

When it comes to selling Loti in about 3 years, I sure wouldn't want to be part of the sales team. Any sports car needs to ahve an appealing hp # and good 0-60 times as a bragging right to be accepted in the American market. With al the compromises in the Elise, if you could get better performance with less compromises, and less money, 99.99% of people will take the non Lotus option.

I think the Elise needs a new powerplant to be competitive in the US market in the next 3 years. Maybe I am wrong, but time will tell, Sales and resale value are already WAY down. It' too bad really....

An Elise with 240+ hp and 0-60 in the low 4s would be competitive for sure, but not at almost 60K

[Spudboy]

Originally Posted by Mean TT

I agree. Any 80K dollar car that claims to be a sports car needs to be able to sprint to 60 in less than 5 seconds.

I would rather the R8 Audi ir RS4 or maybe even a Jeep Cherokee SRT8 and an EVO for that a mount of money.

I posted this in another thread, but in a few years, the Elise will be completely outdated.

In the 25,000-35,000 category there will be:

EVO, STI, Sky, Miata, Solstace, Supra and its 350 hp 3200 lbs, a 350+ hp and the Nissan Z.

For 35,000 to 45,000

Z2 BMW 270 hp and 2000 pounds, Light weight Audi if the decide to build it (1800 pounds 220 hp), MB 350s, the Return of the RX-7 and Audi TT

45,000-60,000

Boxter, Caymen, Elise, Exige (S maybe road legal) RS4, S4, Z06

For 60,000+

Europa? Esprit? Baby Buigatti 280 hp 2500 lbs and looks to kill for, R8, Alpha 8C for a lot of money, GT-R and a few others.


I think that Lotus needs to add power to everything. It may be difficult to make a lightweight car, but it is relatively easy to put more power into one. Lotus is about to get outclasses and outperformed on just about every level. Let's not forget about price/value.

When it comes to selling Loti in about 3 years, I sure wouldn't want to be part of the sales team. Any sports car needs to ahve an appealing hp # and good 0-60 times as a bragging right to be accepted in the American market. With al the compromises in the Elise, if you could get better performance with less compromises, and less money, 99.99% of people will take the non Lotus option.

I think the Elise needs a new powerplant to be competitive in the US market in the next 3 years. Maybe I am wrong, but time will tell, Sales and resale value are already WAY down. It' too bad really....

An Elise with 240+ hp and 0-60 in the low 4s would be competitive for sure, but not at almost 60K

I don't dispute any of your points, but how many Lotus loyalists will always buy a Lotus just because it's a Lotus? And is that number enough to keep them afloat in the US?

[dickedup]

Originally Posted by Mean TT

I think the Elise needs a new powerplant to be competitive in the US market in the next 3 years.

Maybe I am wrong, but time will tell, Sales and resale value are already WAY down. It' too bad really....

An Elise with 240+ hp and 0-60 in the low 4s would be competitive for sure, but not at almost 60K

Pretty right on.

The Buzzbomb needed a new powertrain yesterday.

[dickedup]

Originally Posted by Spudboy

I don't dispute any of your points, but how many Lotus loyalists will always buy a Lotus just because it's a Lotus?

And is that number enough to keep them afloat in the US?

The Buzzbomb's initial sales success was achieved in large part by appealing to the Looky@Me and Got-To-Have-The-Latest-Now crowd.

Those fellas have moved on......leaving the True Faithful to tow the line.





If Lotus does'nt attract a new generation to the marque, the end won't be far behind.

[MitchT]

Price is always an issue, and without volume the auto industry has a tuff time delivering a product that is afforadble and good. Lotus always has the option of dropping in a better motor, these guys are pretty smart, a ztec, or upgrades to the toya lump are easy for them, and the small marque heritage is what they need to keepup, innovation and technology. Plus the gas issues ( price) alway curb the hp wars, ie mpg crap, they industry is already shouting mpg again like in the seventies early eighties. Sometime small and niche can make it thru tuff times if they keep overhead in check and do not get spread too thin, just some observations, as a CPA.

[darkSol]

Originally Posted by Mean TT

For 35,000 to 45,000
Z2 BMW 270 hp and 2000 pounds, Light weight Audi if the decide to build it (1800 pounds 220 hp)

I agree with everything you have said except I highly doubt that either Audi or BMW have the hardcore "guts" to make a stripper in the 2000 lb. range.

2500 lbs. maybe, but not 2000.

[Icedog_16]

For $77K? NFW. I was figuring this car was going to be priced around $60K based on its specs. There would be a nicely-equipped RS4 in my garage at that price-point.

[Taxcheat]

Originally Posted by Mean TT

I agree. Any 80K dollar car that claims to be a sports car needs to be able to sprint to 60 in less than 5 seconds.

Mean TT, you're close to the mark but any car that claims to be a sports car needs to be a two door. That knocks a bunch off your list. Technically, it should be a convertible, too.

I love my STi, but it's not a sports car.

I think Lotus will own the lightweight field for quite some time. Too much desire for heated power seats and cupholders for there to be any competition.

[fitfan]

70k?!?! yikes! i would have thought that car would be LESS than an Elise/Exige...

anyways - as i have allways said thats not the "real" car to come, its a stop gap... until god knows when they really do come out with a "caymen/Mcoupe" type fighter for the sports GT market. ..if ever.

[cpforyou]

So it seems to have some kind of lag. If there were going to use the 2.0 boosted engine, maybe a supercharger, like that in the Ion Redline or Cobalt would have helped with response and still give it decent power.

[testdriver]

I took it for a test drive last week, here are some pics:

http://home.datacomm.ch/freepix/lotuseuropa/

I liked the engine, the handling is excellent for a 1000kg (2200lb) car and it still feels like a lotus. But I don't like the design, and the price is way too high...

Anyway, it was good fun

[Mean TT]

My point was that in since the Elise has been released, we have see an explosion of growth an innovation. Direct Injection is being used in even cheap cars like the Mazda speed 3, with great results.

I agree about a sports car having 2 doors, but there is no difference in performance between some of the 4 doors and some of the 2 doors. Similiarly, I think the Mazaratti is a GT, even though it has 2 doors, same with a few Austin Martins (God they are always beautiful).

My point was that Lotus has fallen behind in the innovation wars, their prices keep rising, Resale values are falling, #s sold are declining, and Competition is vastly imporving.

The RS4 you know is faster than a lot of so called sports cars, and if you have ever been around them, they sound delicious.

I hope Lotus doesn't fall off the mark, but if they are to follow the BMW model their price leader should be their profit and quantity leader. The Esprit will be great I am sure, but to let an older design such as the Elise dangling on the vine seems like a terrible oversight. I have faith that common sense and a little bit of pride will encourage a little more development of Elise. Time will tell...

[gameson]

The interior looks exactly like Elise...

[dododge]

Fifth Gear did a quick review of the new Europa last week, and their verdict was pretty much the same as everybody else's: too expensive and not a proper GT car.