How to FIGHT a Traffic Ticket in California

[cpforyou]

NOTE: It seems like this link shows up under Google's Search Engine, and I have a lot of people who sign up for LotusTalk just to PM me. I will only help you if you are a LotusTalk member in good standing, or a Honda-Tech member in good standing. If you just signed up for this forum just to talk to me (and many have), then I will not help you. If you are neither, and still want help, I will charge a $10 fee.


A lot of us like to drive our Lotus to far away locations. Examples including someone in Orange County going to Willow Springs, Buttonwillow, Laguna Seca, etc. Are you driving a few counties away to get to a Lotus meet?

I've decided to share some information on fighting your traffic ticket. You should know this even before you go out and drive next time. The following information will help you greatly if there is a lot of things question, or if you were (or weren't) speeding excessively. Obviously if you're racing over 100 MPH+ on the freeway, don't expect this to help much.

HIGHLIGHT: Never admit guilt. Always be polite. Always try to get as much information as you can.

1. GETTING PULLED OVER
I recommended that you never admit guilt. By admitting guilt, you put your case into the hands of the cop who pulled you over. If you get a nice cop, he might let you off. If you don’t get a nice cop, and he gives you a ticket, you have just incriminated yourself.

Cop: Do you know why I pulled you over?

WRONG ANSWER: Yes. I was doing 80mph.
WHY: This self-incriminates you.

WRONG ANSWER: No. I don’t. What speed was I going?
WHY: This makes you seem like you don’t pay attention to your driving.

RIGHT ANSWER: Would you mind telling me why you pulled me over?
WHY: You’re not admitting guilt. You are not answering his question, but appear to do so by responding back with a question yourself.

Cop: Yes, you were doing 85 MPH in a 65 Zone.

WRONG ANSWER: No I wasn’t.
WHY: Arguing or disagreeing with a cop will not help you.

RIGHT ANSWER: Oh I see. Would you mind telling me how you were able to get that speed?
WHY: You acknowledge his statement and at the same time, getting information on how exactly he determined your speed. Not all cops will state how he determined your speed on your ticket. You need this information to fight your ticket.

Cop: Do you know how fast you were going?

WRONG ANSWER: Yes. I was doing 80 MPH.
WHY: This self-incriminates you.

RIGHT ANSWER: Yes. I believe I was going at a safe and reasonable speed as per CVC 22350. (MEMORIZE THIS ONE!)
WHY: If you’re doing 80 MPH on the freeway, he will write you up for CVC 22349 or CVC 22356. CVC 22350 basically states, “No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.” If everyone else is driving the same speed, sometimes driving 65MPH actually endangers the safety of persons or property if everyone is tailgating you, high-beaming you, etc.

This answer will trigger different responses from different cops. Some cops might think you’re a smart-@$$s. Some cops might think that you know what you’re talking about and continue to ask you more questions. If you get a cop that decides to throw a bunch of questions at you, make sure you slow him down. Think carefully about each question he asks you, always be polite, don't incriminate yourself, and if you can, answer a question back with a question to get information from him.

2. GETTING A TICKET
So the cop has decided to give you a ticket. As he is writing it...

Ask him nicely, "Can you give me a warning?"

It doesn't hurt to ask. If he denies it, tell him, “Excuse me officer. I would like request my right to appear county seat.” Do this only if you get a ticket in another county other than the one where you work or live. When he grants your request, he should ask you which court. If you get a ticket in San Diego, but live in LA, you could say Santa Monica for example. If you get a ticket in California near the border of Nevada, but live in Orange County, you would say Santa Ana. Obviously, if you're getting a ticket a few blocks away from your home, you can't do this.

If he denies your request, tell him, “According to CVC 40502(b), upon demand, I can request my court appearance closest to my residence or my principal place of employment. Can I request my right to appear county seat?”

If he still denies it, when you sign your ticket, make sure you face it away from the cop. Write in the signature box, “Request County Seat.” and then sign it. This is your proof that you requested it. If a cop denies you two times, and you write this in, you will have a STRONG CASE. The cop has denied your right to appear county seat, so now you have to write it in the signature box. You can use this as a basis to fight your case. PM me if this happens to you.

If you live in Orange County, and you get a ticket in LA, do it anyways. At the very least, you make him drive one hour or so to fight you in court.

OTHER NOTES:
SPEED TRAP: If it appears to be a speed trap, when the cop is writing you the ticket, ask him playfully any the following (depending on your situation).

"You know what officer, that was a good hiding spot. How many people did you get today from that spot?"

"You must be getting a lot of people from that spot today. Did you meet your quota yet?"

"You know, I see you a lot on Main St. Are you getting more people on this street?" If he answers yes, ask him "Wow. How many did you get today?"

WHY: You are building up evidence against a speed trap case. If it appears he has pulled over numerous people at that spot, you can request to see his log for the day.

MULTIPLE CARS: If a cop pulls over you and a few other cars at the same time, try to get their license plates.

WHY: If you are able to locate the cars later, everyone can fight the case together.


3. TRIAL BY DECLARATION
V.C. Section 40902 - Trial by Written Declaration

I recommend that everyone declares a Trial by Declaration, which basically means that you can fight it by mail. By fighting your traffic ticket by mail, you basically send your side of the story, and the cop sends his. The judge reviews both sides, and then makes a decision. The good thing about this is that you’re forcing a cop to gather his evidence and write a statement about your ticket. Some cops don’t like to do this, and will just let it go and would rather just go out and give another ticket. The cop has a certain amount of days to submit his statement. If he does not, you win. If he does, and the judge declares in your favor, you win. If the judge declares in the cops favor, you have another chance to fight it! You have multiple chances of winning, therefore Trial by Declaration is the best route to take.

I have samples of arguments you can use to submit to the judge. Please PM me. I have them for the following types of tickets:
Speeding on a freeway with a 65MPH or 70MPH posted speed limit.
Exceeding a speed greater than reasonable for the conditions present.
Failure to do a complete stop.
Red light camera ticket.


4. SO YOU LOST TRIAL BY DECLARATION?
If you lost Trial by Declaration on a ticket where you drove 5 - 10 MPH, then I'm very surprised. If you did, say 90 MPH in a 65 Zone, then I'm not surprised you lost. I suggest you get a laywer. Otherwise, keep going.

Hopefully, you got your ticket far from your location of residence. The latest statistic I have from a couple years ago say that a traffic ticket case in court is in the defendant’s case approximately 12% of the time. A majority of them are due to the cop not showing up. By having your court case outside of the cop’s favorite court, he is even more likely not to show up.

If you’re ticket is close to your location of residence, please PM me for more advice, or hire a lawyer.

OTHER THINGS YOU CAN DO

1. Do you have parents who live far away that you frequently visit? If so, let me know, and I'll share with you something you can do, so that if you ever get a ticket, you have higher chances of winning.

2. If you're ticket is for CVC22350, try to go online RIGHT AWAY and print out a few weather reports from a few websites.

3. If you're ticket is for speeding on the freeway, go online to SigAlert and print out what the current flow of traffic is. If you are far from home, call someone and have them do it RIGHT AWAY. Also, if it was for a Monday 11AM for example, go to SigAlert every Monday at 11AM and print out a speed report.

FOR THE RECORD:
I'm not a wreckless driver. I generally drive in a safe and reasonable manner. It all started, when I got a 45MPH in a 35MPH Zone many years ago, which no posted speed-limit. I did research, and I won! Since then, I fight every ticket I get, even if I can take traffic school. If I am eligible for traffic school, I usually fight by mail first. If I don't win, I ask to appear in court, in which I ask for traffic school.

As such, I have a good driving record, and a good driver's discount.

[Macgyver]

Good tips, a good site to visit for Californians is: http://www.helpigotaticket.com

[Chococar]

Thanks! Hope I don't need this :-)

[MattG]

Great advice! I'm making this one a sticky.

One thing to add - I've heard that if you choose a trial by declaration and lose, you can appeal that and, I believe, ask for a trial in person instead. Anyone know the specifics of that?

[cpforyou]

Originally Posted by MattG

Great advice! I'm making this one a sticky.

One thing to add - I've heard that if you choose a trial by declaration and lose, you can appeal that and, I believe, ask for a trial in person instead. Anyone know the specifics of that?

Yes. I've stated it above:

I recommend that everyone declares a Trial by Declaration, which basically means that you can fight it by mail. By fighting your traffic ticket by mail, you basically send your side of the story, and the cop sends his. The judge reviews both sides, and then makes a decision. The good thing about this is that you’re forcing a cop to gather his evidence and write a statement about your ticket. Some cops don’t like to do this, and will just let it go and would rather just go out and give another ticket. The cop has a certain amount of days to submit his statement. If he does not, you win. If he does, and the judge declares in your favor, you win. If the judge declares in the cops favor, you have another chance to fight it! You have multiple chances of winning, therefore Trial by Declaration is the best route to
take.

I haven't gotten a ticket in many years, but have helped friends who have had tickets. Always request a Trial by Declaration.

MANY CHANCES TO WIN:

1. The cop doesn't take the time to write a response to the judge. YOU WIN!
2. The cop sends in his statement, and the judge favors you in the case. YOU WIN!
3. You appeal and ask for a trial in person. The cop doesn't show up. YOU WIN!
4. The cop does show up, and the judge declares it in your favor. YOU WIN!

As you can see, you have 4 chances of winning. If you don't do Trial by Declaration, you only have 2 chances of winning.

[slaughtr]

Are there similar laws, such as the safe and prudent speed, county seat and trial by declaration in other states? I live in Idaho. I'm not a reckless driver either but the police in my county wrote an astonomical # of tickets this year compared to previous years. I think they have figured out it's a cash cow.

[maagjr]

What Happens if I got written down by CVC 22349

[Maximum Speed Limit
22349. (a) Except as provided in Section 22356, no person may drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than 65 miles per hour.]

Then I request a trail by declaration using form TR-205, but what would be the argument to place on "statement of facts" or "declaration of facts"
Plead not guilty until proven guilty?

Any help?

[gameson]

where can I find TR-205 form online?

[deddie]

I heard that you lose your right to attend traffic school (for purposes of dismissing the 1 point from your record) if you fight the ticket. Is that true?

[cpforyou]

You can download the form here:

http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/forms/fillable/tr205.pdf

Although, I usually send the form I sent to you via e-mail, and then wait for the courts to send the TR-205 to you by mail to fill out.

Originally Posted by deddie

I heard that you lose your right to attend traffic school (for purposes of dismissing the 1 point from your record) if you fight the ticket. Is that true?

Yes, if you are in court, don't fight the ticket if you are eligible for traffic school.

However, there is reason why you should still Declare a Trial by Declaration. It's like a freebie. If you lose, just request to appear in court, and then request traffic school.

[Dietrich]

what happens if the cop takes a baton to your face for asking annoying questions (and then denies it in court)?

[PhlypSide]

www.ticketassassin.com

This guy rocks, if I still lived in California I'm sure I'd be following these tips. (BTW, he's a former traffic school instructor too)

Originally Posted by http://www.ticketassassin.com/faq.html#angel

Question: Patrick, out of curiosity, how did you come to learn all this stuff about traffic law? Are you a law enforcement official or legal associate of some sort, or just some militant citizen ANGEL?

Answer: No cop. No lawyer. No angel. Citizen, yes. Militant, perhaps.

I’m an Irish rebel and Buddhist anarchist, born too late for the better revolutions.

I taught traffic school for six years and owned a DMV licensed school for 5 years. I started my own traffic school after my two idiot traffic school bosses pissed me off. I don’t know if “revenge” is a good reason to start a small business, but I am Irish.

Some 11,000 students with 11,000 questions later, I had had enough but did not want the information I'd learned to be lost forever. This led to Ticketassassin.com, a monument to 5 wasted years that, in reflection, were not wasted at all. I decided to combine my ticket knowledge, English degree and writing skills to create a website for California drivers with ticket problems.

I teamed up with my friend, diabolical web designer Tim Wayne, to create a space where “sticking it to the man” would be our daily business and pleasure. The site was my revenge against the DMV and courts for playing God with my modest traffic school with their red tape and threats for 5 years. Neither liked that I would inform my students about their rights under the law. The bureaucrats at the courts and DMV wanted none of it and threatened to shut me down repeatedly.

Also, since any yahoo could start a traffic school, there were too many schools and not enough students to fill the classes. My advice: never get into a government regulated business unless you can make a pile of money—like car dealerships, bars and methadone clinics.

So after five years of tilting at windmills inside the "system", I now use the vector of the Internet with a virus called "the truth" to make the court and DMV wish they had let me be. I hope to encourage so many people to contest that the traffic court system is eventually destroyed by the weight of too many written declarations. This is my second revenge-based business.

For more info, read about this site. http://www.ticketassassin.com/about.html

[shay2nak]

thanks, charles!

I fought a ticket in court (ventura county), but judge was totally bias. I collected so much info on radars and speeding that I filled a 2" binder! I found the NHTSA radar training manual and a bunch of other stuff.

[TimMullen]

Originally Posted by cpforyou

If he denies it, tell him, “Excuse me officer. I would like request my right to appear county seat.” Do this only if you get a ticket in another county other than the one where you work or live. When he grants your request, he should ask you which court. If you get a ticket in San Diego, but live in LA, you could say Santa Monica for example.

I'm not sure that this is exactly correct, unless they've changed the laws in California.

You could request that your trial be moved to the county seat - but you most like have to request this of the court, not the officer. You can have the trial moved to the county seat of the county where the ticket was issued, but not to another county. A great thing to know when you get a ticket in Barstow coming back from Vegas for instance. The county seat is San Bernardino, and it's not that likely that the cop is going to drive that distance to appear in court. Similar thing in other areas, but if you get a ticket in San Diego, don't think that you can get it moved to LA county courts.


Another thing nice law that California has that helps with things. Normally, you have to make two trips to the court to fight a ticket. You have the right to a separate arraignment and trial - separate visits to the court house. For the first trip, you get to sit around most of the day waiting for your chance to stand up and say "Not Guilty". The judge/court then schedules the "trial" date for another day at the court. After wasting the entire day, most people give up, give the judge an explanation, and pay the fine. If you don't give up, you get to come back again, wait around all day, and get found guilty and pay the fine.

I don't remember the code, but California has a nice provision that allows you to waive the right to a separate arraignment and trial, and have both at the same time. You send the court house a registered letter stating that you waive your right (include the vehicle code provision), you intend to plead not guilty, and request your arraignment and trial at the same time. It helps if you can give a reason for requesting a specific date - hopefully not the normal scheduled day in court for the particular cop in the case. I.e. I have a conference that has been scheduled for 6 months on XXX, and request the trial on YYY (some earlier date, other than the same day of the week).

They may or may not schedule the trial for the date you request, but they have to let you stand up I court and plead "not guilty" and then start the trial. One trip to the court house, and a greater possibility that the cop won't show.

[Elad]

Originally Posted by MattG

... I've heard that if you choose a trial by declaration and lose, you can appeal that and, I believe, ask for a trial in person instead. Anyone know the specifics of that?

Also, Matt, if someone loses at the traffic court, in California he can appeal again to the Superior Court (where his appeal will be heard by a panel of three judges, though he might not have to actually appear in person then). I've overturned a traffic court judge's erroneous ruling that way. You file a written brief, following the advice above from *(helpigotaticket.com)* and the Nolo Press paperback book 'Fight Your Ticket'. Then, the District Attorney (not the cop) is required to file an opposition brief. I doubt a DA has the budget to do that and doesn't bother doing it ... and when your brief is unopposed... it makes it a lot easier to win.

And contrary to what was implied in the first post above, the Basic Speed Law (CVC 22350) defense does not apply if you were ticketed for speeds above 55 mph or on a freeway. Thus if you were stopped for going 85 mph, it would be pointless to reference CVC 22350.

[pixlpush]

Another CA resource, I'm in the midst of having these guys prepare a trial by declaration for me:

http://www.ticketbust.com/

There more expensive than the ticket assassin but the actually prepare the documents for you and customize it to your situation. I'll update this post with my results.

[gameson]

Originally Posted by Elad

Also, Matt, if someone loses at the traffic court, in California he can appeal again to the Superior Court (where his appeal will be heard by a panel of three judges, though he might not have to actually appear in person then). I've overturned a traffic court judge's erroneous ruling that way. You file a written brief, following the advice above from *(helpigotaticket.com)* and the Nolo Press paperback book 'Fight Your Ticket'. Then, the District Attorney (not the cop) is required to file an opposition brief. I doubt a DA has the budget to do that and doesn't bother doing it ... and when your brief is unopposed... it makes it a lot easier to win.

And contrary to what was implied in the first post above, the Basic Speed Law (CVC 22350) defense does not apply if you were ticketed for speeds above 55 mph or on a freeway. Thus if you were stopped for going 85 mph, it would be pointless to reference CVC 22350.

Question about appealing to Superior Court. Does the defendant has to be present for the statement hearing?

[XRSphile]

I just got a speeding ticket for violation of 22350 (BASIC SPEED LAW). 55 in a 30.

"No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property."

But I can prove that the weather was sunny, visibility clear, traffic was light, and I wasn't dangering the lives of people and property. If I can get the officer to prove those statements correct. I should be able to win in court, according to 22351(b)

"The speed of any vehicle upon a highway in excess of the prima facie speed limits in Section 22352 or established as authorized in this code is prima facie unlawful unless the defendant establishes by competent evidence that the speed in excess of said limits did not constitute a violation of the basic speed law at the time, place and under the conditions then existing."

What do you guys think? I should more then likey win right?

[TimMullen]

Originally Posted by XRSphile

unless the defendant establishes by competent evidence

"competent evidence" - even Jesus himself couldn't provide competent evidence that he could walk on water while standing on a lake in a traffic court.

You ain't going to win the that argument in court...

[dsolomon]

Originally Posted by XRSphile

I just got a speeding ticket for violation of 22350 (BASIC SPEED LAW). 55 in a 30.

"No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property."

But I can prove that the weather was sunny, visibility clear, traffic was light, and I wasn't dangering the lives of people and property. If I can get the officer to prove those statements correct. I should be able to win in court, according to 22351(b)

"The speed of any vehicle upon a highway in excess of the prima facie speed limits in Section 22352 or established as authorized in this code is prima facie unlawful unless the defendant establishes by competent evidence that the speed in excess of said limits did not constitute a violation of the basic speed law at the time, place and under the conditions then existing."

What do you guys think? I should more then likey win right?

You can try using the speed trap defense.