How to FIGHT a Traffic Ticket in California

[shay2nak]

Originally Posted by lc_09

This is my vote for the best thread ever on any car forum.

The advice here has helped me get out of two speeding tickets, and also helped me get away with a warning on two other occasions. (all while driving my Elise)

This jpg is my most recent case dismissed notification.

cool! I'll have to try this next time. if you're found guilty after doing this, can you still take traffic school?

[uclacyc]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

cool! I'll have to try this next time. if you're found guilty after doing this, can you still take traffic school?

That's up to the discretion of the judge. My opinion is that if the cop is in court, you are most likely to lose because the judge will be more likely to believe the cop than you, unless you have some big technicality in your favor (like they didn't respond to your informal discovery request). If you're found guilty, you basically can try to beg for traffic school, but the judge may not give it to you.

My strategy is that if the cop is there, I asked the judge right away if I can plea no contest if they allow me to take traffic school. Luckily, I've never had to use this strategy.

[lc_09]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

cool! I'll have to try this next time. if you're found guilty after doing this, can you still take traffic school?

The two tickets I got out of, I did the trail by declaration.

The second one was dismissed, the first one came back with a Not Guilty marked on it..
In both cases I i got a my money back, and no points on my record.

It never got to the point where i had to ask for traffic school...but, i think i read in the small print on the back of the ticket. That you could, if you are eligible. Meaning as long as you haven't gone to traffic school in the past 18 months for a previous violation.

[The Stig]

Got one today.

CVC22350. Ventura County.
Officer (bike) said he got me on radar (was on opposite side of street). I was doing about 47 or so. He was parked by trees, turned around, followed me for 1.5 miles, pulled me over.

Just said "I got you 53 in a 40, license registration, and here is the ticket."

Happened 34 miles from residence.

Under ticket comments/weather condition he wrote "C, D, L"

The court he assigned me to is 41 miles from my house. Have perfect driving record. However, 6.5 months ago, did go to traffic school, for not making a full stop at red light turning right on freeway onramp.

EDIT: Printed out the weather reports from 3 websites as suggested earlier in this thread.

Need your help. Another issue I may have, ticket trial is scheduled for Aug 11, but I am out of town all month of August

CP-Pm'ed you.

[ezmoney]

Originally Posted by The Stig

Got one today.

CVC22350. Ventura County.
Officer (bike) said he got me on radar (was on opposite side of street). I was doing about 47 or so. He was parked by trees, turned around, followed me for 1.5 miles, pulled me over.

Just said "I got you 53 in a 40, license registration, and here is the ticket."

Happened 34 miles from residence.

Under ticket comments/weather condition he wrote "C, D, L"

The court he assigned me to is 41 miles from my house. Have perfect driving record. However, 6.5 months ago, did go to traffic school, for not making a full stop at red light turning right on freeway onramp.

EDIT: Printed out the weather reports from 3 websites as suggested earlier in this thread.

Need your help. Another issue I may have, ticket trial is scheduled for Aug 11, but I am out of town all month of August

CP-Pm'ed you.

There are alot of posts on this subject giving all kinds of advice. One thing for sure not to do is talk to the police.

YouTube - Don't Talk to Cops, Part 1

[Noisycow]

Amen to that.

[ezmoney]

Originally Posted by Noisycow

Amen to that.

I got that video from one of your previous posts.
BTW your avatars just keep getting better!

[The Stig]

Just went ahead and requested the the Traffic Survey record from the City. WIll keep you posted

[ezmoney]

Jack took a long look at his speedometer before slowing down: 73 in
a 55 zone. Fourth time in as many months. How could a guy get caught
so often?

When his car had slowed to 10 miles an hour, Jack pulled over, but
only partially. Let the cop worry about the potential traffic
hazard. Maybe some other car will tweak his backside with a mirror.
The cop was stepping out of his car, the big pad in hand.


Bob? Bob from Church? Jack sunk farther into his trench coat. This
was worse than the coming ticket. A cop catching a guy from his own
church. A guy who happened to be a little eager to get home after a
long day at the office. A guy he was about to play golf with
tomorrow.

Jumping out of the car, he approached a man he saw every Sunday, a
man he'd never seen in uniform.


"Hi, Bob. Fancy meeting you like this."


"Hello, Jack." No smile.


"Guess you caught me red-handed in a rush to see my wife and kids."


"Yeah, I guess." Bob seemed uncertain. Good.
"I've seen some long days at the office lately. I'm afraid I bent
the rules a bit -just this once."


Jack toed at a pebble on the pavement. "Diane said something about
roast beef and potatoes tonight. Know what I mean?" "I know what you
mean. I also know that you have a reputation in our precinct "
Ouch. This was not going in the right direction. Time to change
tactics.


"What'd you clock me at?"


"Seventy. Would you sit back in your car please?"
"Now wait a minute here, Bob. I checked as soon as saw you. I was
barely nudging 65." The lie seemed to come easier with every ticket.


"Please, Jack, in the car."


Flustered, Jack hunched himself through the still-open door.
Slamming it shut, he stared at the dashboard. He was in no rush to
open the window.


The minutes ticked by. Bob scribbled away on the pad.


Why hadn't he asked for a driver's license?


Whatever the reason, it would be a month of Sundays before Jack ever
sat near this cop again. A tap on the door jerked his head to the
left. There was Bob, a folded paper in hand Jack rolled down the
window a mere two inches, just enough room for Bob to pass him the
slip.


"Thanks." Jack could not quite keep the sneer out of his voice.


Bob returned to his police car without a word. Jack watched his
retreat in the mirror. Jack unfolded the sheet of paper. How much
was this one going to cost?


Wait a minute. What was this? Some kind of joke?


Certainly not a ticket. Jack began to read:

"Dear Jack, Once upon a time I had a daughter. She was six when
killed by a car. You guessed it- a speeding driver. A fine and three
months in jail, and the man was free. Free to hug his daughters, all
three of them. I only had one, and I'm going to have to wait until
Heaven before I can ever hug her again.

A thousand times I've tried to forgive that man. A thousand times I
thought I had Maybe I did, but I need to do it again. Even now. Pray
for me. And be careful! , Jack, my son is all I have left."
"Bob"

Jack turned around in time to see Bob's car pull away and head down
the road. Jack watched until it disappeared. A full 15 minutes
later, he too, pulled away and drove slowly home, praying for
forgiveness and hugging a surprised wife and kids when he arrived.


Life is precious. Handle with care This is an important message;
please pass it along to your friends Drive safely and carefully.
Remember, cars are not the only things recalled by their maker.

[wendy]

Originally Posted by cpforyou

NOTE: It seems like this link shows up under Google's Search Engine, and I have a lot of people who sign up for LotusTalk just to PM me. I will only help you if you are a LotusTalk member in good standing, or a Honda-Tech member in good standing. If you just signed up for this forum just to talk to me (and many have), then I will not help you. If you are neither, and still want help, I will charge a $10 fee.


A lot of us like to drive our Lotus to far away locations. Examples including someone in Orange County going to Willow Springs, Buttonwillow, Laguna Seca, etc. Are you driving a few counties away to get to a Lotus meet?

I've decided to share some information on fighting your traffic ticket. You should know this even before you go out and drive next time. The following information will help you greatly if there is a lot of things question, or if you were (or weren't) speeding excessively. Obviously if you're racing over 100 MPH+ on the freeway, don't expect this to help much.

HIGHLIGHT: Never admit guilt. Always be polite. Always try to get as much information as you can.

1. GETTING PULLED OVER
I recommended that you never admit guilt. By admitting guilt, you put your case into the hands of the cop who pulled you over. If you get a nice cop, he might let you off. If you don’t get a nice cop, and he gives you a ticket, you have just incriminated yourself.

Cop: Do you know why I pulled you over?

WRONG ANSWER: Yes. I was doing 80mph.
WHY: This self-incriminates you.

WRONG ANSWER: No. I don’t. What speed was I going?
WHY: This makes you seem like you don’t pay attention to your driving.

RIGHT ANSWER: Would you mind telling me why you pulled me over?
WHY: You’re not admitting guilt. You are not answering his question, but appear to do so by responding back with a question yourself.

Cop: Yes, you were doing 85 MPH in a 65 Zone.

WRONG ANSWER: No I wasn’t.
WHY: Arguing or disagreeing with a cop will not help you.

RIGHT ANSWER: Oh I see. Would you mind telling me how you were able to get that speed?
WHY: You acknowledge his statement and at the same time, getting information on how exactly he determined your speed. Not all cops will state how he determined your speed on your ticket. You need this information to fight your ticket.

Cop: Do you know how fast you were going?

WRONG ANSWER: Yes. I was doing 80 MPH.
WHY: This self-incriminates you.

RIGHT ANSWER: Yes. I believe I was going at a safe and reasonable speed as per CVC 22350. (MEMORIZE THIS ONE!)
WHY: If you’re doing 80 MPH on the freeway, he will write you up for CVC 22349 or CVC 22356. CVC 22350 basically states, “No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.” If everyone else is driving the same speed, sometimes driving 65MPH actually endangers the safety of persons or property if everyone is tailgating you, high-beaming you, etc.

This answer will trigger different responses from different cops. Some cops might think you’re a smart-@$$s. Some cops might think that you know what you’re talking about and continue to ask you more questions. If you get a cop that decides to throw a bunch of questions at you, make sure you slow him down. Think carefully about each question he asks you, always be polite, don't incriminate yourself, and if you can, answer a question back with a question to get information from him.

2. GETTING A TICKET
So the cop has decided to give you a ticket. As he is writing it...

Ask him nicely, "Can you give me a warning?"

It doesn't hurt to ask. If he denies it, tell him, “Excuse me officer. I would like request my right to appear county seat.” Do this only if you get a ticket in another county other than the one where you work or live. When he grants your request, he should ask you which court. If you get a ticket in San Diego, but live in LA, you could say Santa Monica for example. If you get a ticket in California near the border of Nevada, but live in Orange County, you would say Santa Ana. Obviously, if you're getting a ticket a few blocks away from your home, you can't do this.

If he denies your request, tell him, “According to CVC 40502(b), upon demand, I can request my court appearance closest to my residence or my principal place of employment. Can I request my right to appear county seat?”

If he still denies it, when you sign your ticket, make sure you face it away from the cop. Write in the signature box, “Request County Seat.” and then sign it. This is your proof that you requested it. If a cop denies you two times, and you write this in, you will have a STRONG CASE. The cop has denied your right to appear county seat, so now you have to write it in the signature box. You can use this as a basis to fight your case. PM me if this happens to you.

If you live in Orange County, and you get a ticket in LA, do it anyways. At the very least, you make him drive one hour or so to fight you in court.

OTHER NOTES:
SPEED TRAP: If it appears to be a speed trap, when the cop is writing you the ticket, ask him playfully any the following (depending on your situation).

"You know what officer, that was a good hiding spot. How many people did you get today from that spot?"

"You must be getting a lot of people from that spot today. Did you meet your quota yet?"

"You know, I see you a lot on Main St. Are you getting more people on this street?" If he answers yes, ask him "Wow. How many did you get today?"

WHY: You are building up evidence against a speed trap case. If it appears he has pulled over numerous people at that spot, you can request to see his log for the day.

MULTIPLE CARS: If a cop pulls over you and a few other cars at the same time, try to get their license plates.

WHY: If you are able to locate the cars later, everyone can fight the case together.


3. TRIAL BY DECLARATION
V.C. Section 40902 - Trial by Written Declaration

I recommend that everyone declares a Trial by Declaration, which basically means that you can fight it by mail. By fighting your traffic ticket by mail, you basically send your side of the story, and the cop sends his. The judge reviews both sides, and then makes a decision. The good thing about this is that you’re forcing a cop to gather his evidence and write a statement about your ticket. Some cops don’t like to do this, and will just let it go and would rather just go out and give another ticket. The cop has a certain amount of days to submit his statement. If he does not, you win. If he does, and the judge declares in your favor, you win. If the judge declares in the cops favor, you have another chance to fight it! You have multiple chances of winning, therefore Trial by Declaration is the best route to take.

I have samples of arguments you can use to submit to the judge. Please PM me. I have them for the following types of tickets:
Speeding on a freeway with a 65MPH or 70MPH posted speed limit.
Exceeding a speed greater than reasonable for the conditions present.
Failure to do a complete stop.
Red light camera ticket.


4. SO YOU LOST TRIAL BY DECLARATION?
If you lost Trial by Declaration on a ticket where you drove 5 - 10 MPH, then I'm very surprised. If you did, say 90 MPH in a 65 Zone, then I'm not surprised you lost. I suggest you get a laywer. Otherwise, keep going.

Hopefully, you got your ticket far from your location of residence. The latest statistic I have from a couple years ago say that a traffic ticket case in court is in the defendant’s case approximately 12% of the time. A majority of them are due to the cop not showing up. By having your court case outside of the cop’s favorite court, he is even more likely not to show up.

If you’re ticket is close to your location of residence, please PM me for more advice, or hire a lawyer.

OTHER THINGS YOU CAN DO

1. Do you have parents who live far away that you frequently visit? If so, let me know, and I'll share with you something you can do, so that if you ever get a ticket, you have higher chances of winning.

2. If you're ticket is for CVC22350, try to go online RIGHT AWAY and print out a few weather reports from a few websites.

3. If you're ticket is for speeding on the freeway, go online to SigAlert and print out what the current flow of traffic is. If you are far from home, call someone and have them do it RIGHT AWAY. Also, if it was for a Monday 11AM for example, go to SigAlert every Monday at 11AM and print out a speed report.

FOR THE RECORD:
I'm not a wreckless driver. I generally drive in a safe and reasonable manner. It all started, when I got a 45MPH in a 35MPH Zone many years ago, which no posted speed-limit. I did research, and I won! Since then, I fight every ticket I get, even if I can take traffic school. If I am eligible for traffic school, I usually fight by mail first. If I don't win, I ask to appear in court, in which I ask for traffic school.

As such, I have a good driving record, and a good driver's discount.

I am writing my California trial for declaration and need some of your agruments. I was stopped by an officer standing at a top of the hill pointing something at me in the middle of the road. The offficer pointed to a parking lot for me to be pulled over. My son thought he was going to shoot us. As I looked me behind me I saw 6 others cars pulled over. I saw two unattended police cars and one unattended motorcycle. He never showed me the reading nor did I ask. My citation was for 22350 unsafe speed (he says going 44 in a posted speed limit. That morning they cited 4 cars for speeding and one car for suspended license. This road is less .25 miles long. So, I need some samples of briefs for trial for declarations. If you have any.

[The Stig]

Originally Posted by The Stig

Just went ahead and requested the the Traffic Survey record from the City. WIll keep you posted

Ok picked up the traffic survey today.

Speed limit in the street was 45mph (no signs)

Traffic survey says average speed is 41mph
Traffic survey was conducted Sept 2004.

Questions
1) How do I incorporate the traffic survey in the trial by declaration? What do I say about it?

2) Do I do a discovery request (is there a form for it), when I pay the bail amount or just do trial by declaration?

[necro]

Originally Posted by The Stig

Ok picked up the traffic survey today.

Speed limit in the street was 45mph (no signs)

It's not the average speed. it's the 85th percentile that counts.
I also got one this week. Thanks to CA inc'ing the traffice fines on 7/1/08.

So I'm subscribing. And I'll be getting the survey!

[rrobello]

cpforyou- I tried sending you a PM but ur box is full

[25psi_Elise_Killer]

I did this TBD for my GF who got ticketed in Pasadena for 22350. The charges got dropped Note, request a court date extension since the cop's memory might get fuzzy after a longer period...

Defendant's Name: ULTRAFLIP
Citation No.: C0XXXXXXXX
To Whom It May Concern:
I am writing in regards to my trial by declaration. The bail amount of $159.00 has already been received by Los Angeles Superior Court, receipt# XXXXXXX on 5/16/08.
I respectfully submit this written declaration to the Court pursuant to CVC 40902. I plead Not Guilty to the charge of violating CVC 22350.
On 4/8/2008 I was ticketed for allegedly traveling at 45mph in a 30mph zone. I believe that I was driving approximately 25-35mph at the time of my stop and that my speed was quite safe for the prevailing conditions.
The Basic Speed Law, CVC 22350 states: "No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property."
I believe that the posted speed of 30mph on Marengo Avenue is artificially low, reflecting an out-of-date traffic and engineering survey and, as such, may constitute an illegal Speed Trap pursuant to CVC 40802(a)(2) which defines an illegal radar speed trap as: "A particular section of a highway with a...speed limit that is provided by this code...[which] limit is not justified by an engineering and traffic survey conducted within five years prior to the date of the alleged violation, and enforcement of the speed limit involves the use of radar or any other electronic device that measures the speed of moving objects." If the traffic survey on Marengo Avenue is more than five years old, the officer's use of radar to determine my speed was illegal.
When using radar/laser evidence, the prosecution is required to prove that the use of radar is not an illegal speed trap. CVC 40803(b) states: "In any prosecution under this code of a charge involving the speed of a vehicle, where enforcement involves the use of radar or other electronic devices which measure the speed of moving objects, the prosecution shall establish, as part of its prima facie case, that the evidence or testimony presented is not based upon a speed trap as defined in paragraph (2) of subdivision (a) of Section 40802."
The prosecution must include a certified copy of the speed survey, to establish that Marengo Avenue is not an illegal Speed Trap. This is required pursuant to CVC 40803(b). I trust the court will rule the laser evidence inadmissible and dismiss my case pursuant to CVC 40805 if the prosecution does not provide a certified speed survey for Marengo Avenue.

CVC 40805, Admission of Speed Trap Evidence, states: "Every court shall be without jurisdiction to render a judgment of conviction against any person for violation of this code involving the speed of a vehicle if the court admits any evidence or testimony secured in violation of, or which is inadmissible under this article." This code confirms that the officer's radar/laser evidence should be inadmissible without verification of the speed survey.
CVC40802(c)(1)(A) states: When radar is used, the arresting officer has successfully completed a radar operator course of not less than 24 hours on the use of police traffic radar, and the course was approved and certified by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training (POST).
The officer should provide documentary proof to the court that he successfully completed this radar operator course certified and approved by the Commission on Peace Officer Standards and Training. If the officer does not submit proof with his declaration that he successfully completed this minimum 24-hour course in accordance with CVC40802(c)(1)(A), my case should be dismissed. His use of RADAR/LASER is not legal without this course, and his RADAR/LASER evidence is inadmissible. I urge the court to not accept hearsay testimony in lieu of documentary evidence to verify course completion. If the course was completed, documentary proof should be provided.
CVC40802(c)(1)(D) requires that: The radar, laser, or other electronic device used to measure the speed of the accused meets or exceeds the minimal operational standards of the National Traffic Highway Safety Administration, and has been calibrated within the three years prior to the date of the alleged violation by an independent certified laser or radar repair and testing or calibration facility.
The Officer should provide documentary proof that his RADAR/LASER meets or exceeds National Highway Traffic Administration Standards in accordance with CVC40802(c)(1)(D). At minimum, the officer should provide documents to the court proving that his RADAR has been calibrated within 3 years by an independent certified testing or calibration facility pursuant to CVC40802(c)(1)(D). If the officer cannot provide this evidence to the court, his RADAR/LASER evidence is inadmissible and my case should be dismissed.
I urge the court to not accept hearsay testimony in lieu of documentary evidence to verify required radar calibration. If the calibration was completed, documentary proof should be provided. Further, the officer should prove that the testing facility was certified and independent from the police department.
Finally, the officer must prove, pursuant to 40802 (c)(1)(C)(i) that he established prior to issuing my citation that his RADAR/LASER was properly calibrated within three years to NTHSA standards.

This standard is stated clearly in the code, which establishes that a conviction is not warranted unless the prosecution proved that, prior to the officer issuing the notice to appear, the arresting officer established that the radar, laser, or other electronic device conformed to the requirements of subparagraph (D). If the officer does not prove this standard, my case should be dismissed.
The purpose of the strict legal standards in police use of radar is to prevent abuse of this technology through poorly trained operators or defective uncalibrated equipment. These should be considered minimum standards by the court in protecting defendants against the power of the state. I respectfully ask the court to uphold these minimum standards of protection.
The officer must provide documentary proof to verify the required standards of his radar equipment and operator training. If these legal standards are not each properly and fully documented, I urge the court to dismiss my citation in the interest of justice. Please do not accept hearsay statements in lieu of documentary evidence.

If the court does not find in my favor in this case, I request a fine reduction and a court assignment to attend traffic school.

I declare under penalty of perjury that this statement is true and correct.
Date: 5/16/2008


________________________________________ULTRAFLIP, Defendant in Pro Per

[plastique999]

Trial by Declaration rules....I've got a 2nd ticket to fight using it....

[dustylax]

this is some nice info, def. going to keep this stuff in mind, thanks!

[drbsanfran]

Hi newbie here looking for some advice.

About a week ago i received a v 22350 ticket (going 50 in a 35) and i want to appeal it by Trial by Declaration. I felt the ticket was unjust because of the circumstance in which it happened: I was in between two cars turning left on an intersection when the car in front of me decides he wants to go straight instead which holds up traffic tell the green light is now red (so now me and the car behind me are in the middle of the intersection while other cars around us are impatiently waiting for us to go). Finally i was able to turn left and the guy behind me tailgates me so i sped up and switched lanes in fear of him hitting me. By the time the cop pulled me over i was already back down to the 35mph range but he clocked me going 50.

I was hoping to get some advice on whether i should use this as my argument to appeal the ticket in the Trial by declaration or would this be admitting guilt and i have no case for appeal. As well, is there anything else i should include in the trial by declaration?

Once again any help would be greatly appreciated and i will keep everyone posted on what happens.

[Brennon]

Originally Posted by drbsanfran

Hi newbie here looking for some advice.

About a week ago i received a v 22350 ticket (going 50 in a 35) and i want to appeal it by Trial by Declaration. I felt the ticket was unjust because of the circumstance in which it happened: I was in between two cars turning left on an intersection when the car in front of me decides he wants to go straight instead which holds up traffic tell the green light is now red (so now me and the car behind me are in the middle of the intersection while other cars around us are impatiently waiting for us to go). Finally i was able to turn left and the guy behind me tailgates me so i sped up and switched lanes in fear of him hitting me. By the time the cop pulled me over i was already back down to the 35mph range but he clocked me going 50.

I was hoping to get some advice on whether i should use this as my argument to appeal the ticket in the Trial by declaration or would this be admitting guilt and i have no case for appeal. As well, is there anything else i should include in the trial by declaration?

Once again any help would be greatly appreciated and i will keep everyone posted on what happens.

ticketassassin.com...

He has an argument on there based on increasing speed to safely navigate and merge into traffic. It's perfectly justified. I would post it here but he'd most likely sue me.

[tgrafix]

Hi I need some help figuring out how to approach writing my trial by declaration. I have been reading the thread but can't figure out the info on the ticket. 49 in a 35mph in Van Nuys on Burbank Bl

Motorcycle cop got me the day the day cell phone law went into effect, he was at a block perched with a gun, since he came up and asked for my info and showed me the gun.

Here's the info from my ticket by officer that I can't understand:
Ticket was written on 7/1/08 the notes on the ticket are
V.C. 22350 L/B - 2 est 45+135
L: 13639 I : 49 D = 326'
Pass O/V
area of occ. Voy 5 (not clear on his writing) maybe xox 5?

There's no info on traffic conditions or if the radar is used, where is that so I can write my statement correctly. I need to get this going or put another extension in by going to the court but would like to avoid it.

If you have info can email me as well and all help is appreciated, would like to get this done in a week, by 10/7-08

thank you

ilanatay@gmail.com