Dyno day hosted by No Limit Motorsports

[charliex]

Its difficult to tell with the cat/sniffer whats going on for sure, but the thing that strikes me as odd is peak HP being at 7500RPMish, at first i thought perhaps the printout is just shifted over as often is the case with these dynos, but the crossover is at the right point..

Lower range AF readings with the sniffer/cat aren't that telling but as it gets on it , they'll be closer.

The other thing i'd look at for the power loss at the top end is the inconsistent AF at WOT, you can see the correlation between power drop and AF, though they're not always dependant on each other.

A fuel dump isn't happening, theres no reason for it and you'd see a large power loss/hiccup, you're seeing the AF mix alter from the effects of the cam change as well, the dyno wideband may also be lagging, cats can induce that too..

If you go back to the dyno log the spark advance see if its pulling timing, thats the indication of misfires or something else going on, if it were misfiring badly it'll switch to a different fuel/spark map too and you'd see a dramatic power loss. (Actually you'd be able to see that on the street too at WOT, just have a friend or an OBD II reader that can log the results)

[dustylax]

Originally Posted by charliex

Its difficult to tell with the cat/sniffer whats going on for sure, but the thing that strikes me as odd is peak HP being at 7500RPMish, at first i thought perhaps the printout is just shifted over as often is the case with these dynos, but the crossover is at the right point..

Lower range AF readings with the sniffer/cat aren't that telling but as it gets on it , they'll be closer.

The other thing i'd look at for the power loss at the top end is the inconsistent AF at WOT, you can see the correlation between power drop and AF, though they're not always dependant on each other.

A fuel dump isn't happening, theres no reason for it and you'd see a large power loss/hiccup, you're seeing the AF mix alter from the effects of the cam change as well, the dyno wideband may also be lagging, cats can induce that too..

If you go back to the dyno log the spark advance see if its pulling timing, thats the indication of misfires or something else going on, if it were misfiring badly it'll switch to a different fuel/spark map too and you'd see a dramatic power loss. (Actually you'd be able to see that on the street too at WOT, just have a friend or an OBD II reader that can log the results)

yeah i was telling him the same about the sniffer being off w/the cat in the car but that normaly means the car is running even richer than the wideband is showing because its getting a little cleaned up already. The other supercharged car also showed a correlation of power gain to the AFR leaning out a little towards redline from one run to the next. I think a de-cat/header will give him some better power and i think there is still more in his tune too, he should probably be able to hit ~215whp from where he is now at ~203whp.

[dustylax]

i'd like to see his AFR's cleaned up to something closer to this.

[exarkun1178]

dusty, can you post a pic of my run with air/fuel, and we can see both next to each other?

[dustylax]

im not sure exactly what you mean but if you pm me your last 6 digits of your vin starting with "L3..." thats how they are saved in our system so i can then overlap yours and Dom's if thats what you were asking ?

[Bavarian Motorist]

He just wanted a pic of the graph showing A/F and not torque. I guess over-lapping with Dom's wouldn't hurt

[mpsalm]

So what did we learn from Dyno day number 2? N/A cars have 20 more HP than usual and S/C cars have 20 HP less?

[Bavarian Motorist]

What we learned was that something was flawed within the two SC cars. IMO, it's things like that that make a dyno worthwhile. Not just the power numbers!

[GTsRasta]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

What we learned was that something was flawed within the two SC cars. IMO, it's things like that that make a dyno worthwhile. Not just the power numbers!

x2

Dusty's hunch that 215 whp can be tuned out of their cars is right on with GTS and other MP62 based supercharger kit numbers for their mods. Their tune must be conservative...which is what they asked for in a sense...but they're still a computer tune away from having as much power as the next guy with a custom tune...and who has the same exact setup.

[dustylax]

well conservative isnt just what people ask for, its what people need to get with a mail-in-reflash type tune because no 2 cars are alike and any sort of tune that will make power on one car could possibly blow another car up.

[MB SC Elise]

Originally Posted by charliex

Its difficult to tell with the cat/sniffer whats going on for sure, but the thing that strikes me as odd is peak HP being at 7500RPMish, at first i thought perhaps the printout is just shifted over as often is the case with these dynos, but the crossover is at the right point..

Lower range AF readings with the sniffer/cat aren't that telling but as it gets on it , they'll be closer.

The other thing i'd look at for the power loss at the top end is the inconsistent AF at WOT, you can see the correlation between power drop and AF, though they're not always dependant on each other.

A fuel dump isn't happening, theres no reason for it and you'd see a large power loss/hiccup, you're seeing the AF mix alter from the effects of the cam change as well, the dyno wideband may also be lagging, cats can induce that too..

If you go back to the dyno log the spark advance see if its pulling timing, thats the indication of misfires or something else going on, if it were misfiring badly it'll switch to a different fuel/spark map too and you'd see a dramatic power loss. (Actually you'd be able to see that on the street too at WOT, just have a friend or an OBD II reader that can log the results)

Thanks Charlie, I appreciate your expertise on this & will look into your suggestions. I've been so busy with work, that I haven't had a chance to reach out to Tony at PES. Do you ever make it over to the NYC area? A custom tune is certainly in order.

Originally Posted by dustylax

i'd like to see his AFR's cleaned up to something closer to this.

Dustin I agree. How difficult would it be to attain this & is it honestly worth my while to drive down to the Philly area to have PES do it or should I just stay local? I know you have a lot of experience with the 1ZZ & 2ZZ engines (Celica's & MR2's). From what I understand the lotus ECU can be a bit tricky.

[Bavarian Motorist]

If it gets your car running well, it's worth it! But can't you just mail the ECU?


Your peak torque is about normal (145 lb-ft, was it?), but like charlie said, the peak HP is coming way too early

[MB SC Elise]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

If it gets your car running well, it's worth it! But can't you just mail the ECU?


Your peak torque is about normal (145 lb-ft, was it?), but like charlie said, the peak HP is coming way too early

My preference would be to have the car tuned & not send the ECU out via mail as I've already gone through this exercise twice with the current result.

You are correct, peak TQ was around 145 & I may take the ride down to PES. Anyone up for a PES run?

[Bavarian Motorist]

You KNOW I'm up for it. I was thinking of adding their ECU upgrade anyways since charlie abandoned ship

[MB SC Elise]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

You KNOW I'm up for it. I was thinking of adding their ECU upgrade anyways since charlie abandoned ship

Cool, I'll reach out to Tony & will let you know. I'd like to have this done ASAP. Anyone else intersted in joining us?

[Bavarian Motorist]

Well, I think Rob is still having some problems with his car so he might want to go.

[HJZ]

Originally Posted by MB SC Elise

Cool, I'll reach out to Tony & will let you know. I'd like to have this done ASAP. Anyone else intersted in joining us?

I'd like to come and check them out. Didn't know they were in PA. I visit PA on a bi-weekly basis.

[exarkun1178]

Originally Posted by dustylax

im not sure exactly what you mean but if you pm me your last 6 digits of your vin starting with "L3..." thats how they are saved in our system so i can then overlap yours and Dom's if thats what you were asking ?

l32599

[dustylax]

ok i overlapped your 209 pull w/his 203 pull....i think the rpm's are off a hair because that bmw went just after you and before him and i rescalled the rpm's on the dyno and i dont think they were the same, maybe because tire sizes between your cars or your tach reading a hair different than his did so Dom's numbers like everyone saw are correct but the rpm scale is pushed to the left by a couple hundred rpm's.

i had to have someone scan the print-out and i was busy till i ended up leaving so i didnt get the file from them to host on here yet...i'll have it up tomorrow.

[dustylax]