New Lotus "Evora"

[Shirp]

Must....graduate....soon.....

[Stormy320]

Originally Posted by powerbookguy

i like it overall but think the dash and steering wheel/column are pretty damn ugly, possible retro 80s update style?

compare new M3 or any recent porsche.

You are crazy.

It's one of the most state of the art production interiors I have ever seen.

[powerbookguy]

Originally Posted by Stormy320

You are crazy.

It's one of the most state of the art production interiors I have ever seen.

looks updated 1980s to me. for example WTF is that colossal donut thing in the middle of the steering wheel? could have spent more money on making that more integrated.

what goes around comes around, same as fashion.

[FLuXeXigeS]

Originally Posted by shinoo

Stephen, I agree that the Evora should attract some Porsche/BMW/MB/Audi guys who could not reconcile with the impracticality of the Elise/Exige. I think there are plenty of real enthusiasts who would buy a Lotus that fit their needs. Hopefully this car finds enough buyers and brings some new customers to the Lotus Brand.

I think this car is going to look even better in person.

+1
i really like the way it looks, cant wait to test drive!!!

[Jean-Paul]

i would love some more corncers in the car. but is is very nice overall !!

[LotusFamily]

Here is what Evora has to be afraid of in it's market:

The Cayman GT3-Rs (coming to a driveway near you, soon, at the same cost, and with lots more power then 280)



Not to mention, push past $80 grand and you are into "gently" used prices for Aston Martin Vantages. Tough fight to win without something special on the table. Hope the High HP. model is really really High HP.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by LotusFamily

Here is what Evora has to be afraid of in it's market:

The Cayman GT3-Rs (coming to a driveway near you, soon, at the same cost, and with lots more power then 280)

Attachment 86389

Not to mention, push past $80 grand and you are into "gently" used prices for Aston Martin Vantages. Tough fight to win without something special on the table. Hope the High HP. model is really really High HP.

Attachment 86390

Where did you get that pic of a Cayman RS? If they built that and it was truely RS caliber, I would be all over it. Keep in mind that Porsche needs to supress the Cayman so that it does not out perform the 911.

As for used Aston Martin Vantages, I don't see that as a competitor; totally different car and is a true GT. Altought I am disappointed with the weight of the Elvira, there is no doubt in my mind that it will be "brilliant" (with a British accent) from behind the wheel at 9 or 10/10's.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Stormy320

You are crazy.

It's one of the most state of the art production interiors I have ever seen.

+1 The interior is nothing short of perfection. Best I have seen in a long time. And those seats, yummy!

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by lotusforsale

Wow. There are a whole bunch of Esprit owners, who bought and owned the cars when they were the only Lotus game in town for a couple of decades (with a one year side track for the M100 Elan---but those owners don't know what a true Lotus owner is because their cars are FWD), who now find themselves not knowing what being a true Lotus owner is all about because their Esprits cames with a sunroof.

Guess somebody should break the news to them.

Please forgive my sarcasm.

But Lotus cannot sustain a market selling the minimalist Exige and Elise variants. They're down to maybe selling a couple hundred a year Exige and Elise combined? The low mileage used market is taking away their new car sales. And frankly the Elise/Exige line is now priced on the high end of perceived buyer value, anyway.

Lotus has a long, long history of bouncing back and forth between street legal race cars, minimalist sports cars, and attempts at road going GT's. Their heritage is not strictly the Elise/Exige model. Take a look back at second generation Elites, Eclats and some of the European market cars, and eventually what the Esprit evolved into.

I like the looks of the new car, but it's out of my range. I've no idea if it can compete. But looking at diminishing sales, and some recent shrinking in the dealer network, Lotus has to come up with something to appeal to a different buyer group, or Lotus won't be in the US market much longer.

I'm not sure what a 'true' Lotus owner is. I've owned a bunch of them over 30 years, but I probably wouldn't qualify as a 'true Lotus owner' by some standards.

Ok, ok, I get your point. Yes, that was probably a poor choice of words about a real Lotus owner. But, I made some other important points about why a sunroof may not work in that car, and they are looking to produce a cab version. I don't think the car is minimilist because it does not have a sunroof. I do agree that Americans do like their sunroofs, but I do not see the lack of a sunroof in this car being an issue. Also, what is this Esprit you speak of?

Prosepective buyer who has never owned a Lotus comes in and sees the car and says "WOW, that is a gorgeous car; I am in love." "How much?" "Really, that is less than I thought based on the looks of the car," Remember how our cars used to cost anywhere from $100K + to around $300K? So the buyer gets in and is even more blown away by the interior and a couple of little seats in ther rear, ala Porsche 911. Then they take a demo model out for a test drive and can't believe the handling and hopefully a little more refinement than the Elise and Exige and also less rattles (it needs to be solid, that will be important; that is part of the quality equation). So after all that they ask if it comes with a sunroof and are told "No, sorry sir it does not." "What? I'm not buying this car, I must have a sunroof; I'm off to buy a BMW 335i!"

I just don't see that happening because this is a truely special car.

But, the weight will be an issue for the Lotus die-hards who have been watching the Eagle development and ready to take a step up possibly.

This may not affect the new Lotus customer unless they are not wowed by the acceleration of the car and they can get 385 hp in a slightly heavier 2009 Porsche C2S.

I think the Evora needs to come in at a base of $70k from what I see. If it starts at around $80K then it could have a very hard time with the competition in that class.

[Hawkeye Mike]

Lotus says they want to build and sell 2,000 Evora per year worldwide. If that small sum cannot be snapped-up by the combined group of Lotus loyalists and nuevo buyers, then Lotus should just stick to engineering consultancy and forget about selling cars.

Originally Posted by Stephen

Ok, ok, I get your point. Yes, that was probably a poor choice of words about a real Lotus owner. But, I made some other important points about why a sunroof may not work in that car, and they are looking to produce a cab version. I don't think the car is minimilist because it does not have a sunroof. I do agree that Americans do like their sunroofs, but I do not see the lack of a sunroof in this car being an issue. Also, what is this Esprit you speak of?

Prosepective buyer who has never owned a Lotus comes in and sees the car and says "WOW, that is a gorgeous car; I am in love." "How much?" "Really, that is less than I thought based on the looks of the car," Remember how our cars used to cost anywhere from $100K + to around $300K? So the buyer gets in and is even more blown away by the interior and a couple of little seats in ther rear, ala Porsche 911. Then they take a demo model out for a test drive and can't believe the handling and hopefully a little more refinement than the Elise and Exige and also less rattles (it needs to be solid, that will be important; that is part of the quality equation). So after all that they ask if it comes with a sunroof and are told "No, sorry sir it does not." "What? I'm not buying this car, I must have a sunroof; I'm off to buy a BMW 335i!"

I just don't see that happening because this is a truely special car.

But, the weight will be an issue for the Lotus die-hards who have been watching the Eagle development and ready to take a step up possibly.

This may not affect the new Lotus customer unless they are not wowed by the acceleration of the car and they can get 385 hp in a slightly heavier 2009 Porsche C2S.

I think the Evora needs to come in at a base of $70k from what I see. If it starts at around $80K then it could have a very hard time with the competition in that class.

[wallabyguy]

OK, I was going to let it go but here is more fuel to my arguement about the moonroof since it has become a focal point in discussion.

If this car is strictly aimed at the traditional Lotus buyer then why does it have Navigation and a paddle-shift automatic gearbox available? Obviously Lotus sees this car as a push into new market segments. These type of options are not supposed to appeal to A-Typical Lotus buyers but to traditional American luxury buyers. Lotus knows to survive, it needs to have vehicles that appeal to a wider variety of clientele. The beauty of the Evora is that because it exists, the Elise/ Exige can stay small, light and focused. They don't need to add features (and weight) to appeal to the more casual driver.

BTW, while I was working at Lotus of Greenwich, the Porsche dealer in town always complained to me that they couldn't sell Caymans and one fo the biggest problems was, "The car cost more than a Boxster and we can't even order a sunroof in the damn thing!" Not my quote, the SM there. It definitely hurt sales. The reality is that Porsche has struggled to sell the Cayman here (see the incentives placed on the cars) and the SM hit the nail on the head.

I remember the outrage that was expressed on this very forum that we couldn't order an Elise without AC or without a Radio in 2005. As a result, in 2006, Lotus offered a delete option. Would you like to know out of 1,800+ 2006 models, how many were ordered with the delete option? 6. 6 cars. All the complaints aboutthe added weight and the hardcore nature of the car and six people ordered it without AC. And if you want to see the long term implications of such an option, look at the aspen white car that had the AC delete option and sat here on the forums for sale for months and months. The owner contacted me at Lotus of Greenwich looking to sell it and I couldn't get Mark Starr to even consider it. And that was Mark Starr, Mr. Lotus Hardcore in the US (at least as far as dealers were concered).

Also, please note that the Esprit added a sunroof in the 80's because of demand. So did the Elite (Riviera model) and the Excel. These 4 seat models are precursors to the Evora.

I'm sorry to say it but the vocal minority is wrong here from a business perspective. From a drivers perspective you are right. But the market, on the whole, expects certain features on a car once it enters a segment. Oddly enough, you would have a better chance getting away without a moonroof if the car cost $200,000 plus then you do at this price point.

[Mattnshilp]

The photo of the Cayman RS is not real. Here is the report:

- - - - -

According to CarTribe.co.uk, Porsche is planning a special Cayman S Sport version intended to celebrate Porsche's 60th anniversary while also attempting to boost last Cayman sales prior to the arrival of the facelifted Cayman.

The Cayman S Sport will most likely receive a package similar to last years Porsche Boxster S Sport Edition in the UK, with sports chrono pack, upgraded brakes and beefier suspension plus a GT3 inspired two-tone color scheme with matching wheels plus a few extra horses under the hood. CarTribe.co.uk states the price will be a few thousand more at about £47k in the UK.

The only part we find doubtful are the highly revered RS graphics being used on a minor trim package special edition. If Porsche does make such a move, they will certainly get an earfull from RS owners.


- - - -

No mention of a GT-3 level Caymen was mentioned and the article goes on to say that, as we all know, Porsche would NEVER come out with a Caymen that could outperform their 911 series or they would be back where they where with their Boxster S issue from the late 90's. Until they beefed up the 911, the Boxster S dramatically chewed into sales of the much more profitable 911 series because you got as good (if not better) performance for WAY less money. Porsche will NOT make the same mistake twice.

Look to some kick-a$$ aftermarket modifications to put the Caymen on even ground with the 911.

I think Nissan has proven with their GTR that you don't need to spend mega-bucks anymore to create a world performance leader. But you do need a business model that permits you to come out with that affordable car while not stabbing yourself in your own eye...


Lotus is on the right path with the Evora and I think it will do well. I just think they need to pick a color for their advertised car that shows off the lines of the Evora better.

-Matt

[Mattnshilp]

PS - I do agree with the commend about the pre-owned Aston Martin Vantage being a very viable option. Once you look to the pre-owned market all bets are off.

But most looking at these cars don't look pre-owned. So I don't think any manufacturer puts competing with the pre-owned market high on their concern list...

Lotus is poking Porsche square in the eye and offering a truly competative alternative. They just need a better marketing campeign to actually spread the word.

-Matt

[CK_lotus]

Originally Posted by Kevin M

I guess I am the only one that thinks it looks ugly?

I'm with you!

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by bmw1

***WARNING, SEMI LONG POST...but not as long as Stephen ***

As some of you may know, I'm now with Lotus Cars USA, Inc. after working my way up from a salesman to finally a sales manager/gsm of arguablly the largest and #1 Lotus dealership in the country.

Back in April, I was fortunate enough to drive in the new Lotus Evora and honestly folks, you guys will be impressed...if you're not already. The car handles like what we'd expect from ANY Lotus and the interior? Well, all I can think of is this That being said..or shown, Lotus won't be able to please everyone and they know this...especially the Elise and Exige customers as they have been spoiled but Lotus from the very beginning has always said their targeted market has always been one where they have been absent for decades but no more...

While in Hethel, other U.S. Lotus dealers were at attendance and these were/are dealers that are high volume dealers so it was interesting to see their expressions and comments...."When can I get one?" All were in agreement that they'd have absolutely no problems filling orders AND selling every single one. Being on the retail side of the fence, I'd have to agree...

Opinions are like...well...Toyota engines! every MY05 and up Lotus owners have one and although we can "discuss" why Lotus could have done this or that? Bottomline is that there's a lot of things that not just Lotus but EVERY car manufacturers have to consider when designing a new model and seeing that Lotus is a small car company, this makes total sense....especially when they have a budget which is remarkable.

Anyways, not to prolong my boring comments but as you may already know, Lotus will definitely have a higher horse power rating Evora AND paddle shifters which will make my wife EXTREMELY happy as knowing this, she's now a Lotus enthusiast and as Wallybyguy has stated, a convertible version soon to come.

These are exciting times for Lotus and I'm just happy to be part of it!!!!


Abe

So after driving the car, did you think there was a lot of weight that could be removed, based on the interior...? And how did the exhaust note sound?


How's the steering?

Originally Posted by Stephen

Where did you get that pic of a Cayman RS? If they built that and it was truely RS caliber, I would be all over it. Keep in mind that Porsche needs to supress the Cayman so that it does not out perform the 911.

As for used Aston Martin Vantages, I don't see that as a competitor; totally different car and is a true GT. Altought I am disappointed with the weight of the Elvira, there is no doubt in my mind that it will be "brilliant" (with a British accent) from behind the wheel at 9 or 10/10's.

The weight is disappointing to me as well even though I know it will be a good car. One question raised in my mind is, "If the Evora is THIS heavy, how much will the Esprit weigh?"


And another complaint is that the car is not THAT much bigger than an Elise and might be the same as a Cayman. I am shocked that Lotus, which is a company renowned for creating light weight cars, could do no better at saving weight than Porsche could. I know that they had to keep costs down, but they still have to adhere to their philosophy and what made them famous to begin with.


Maybe my expectations were off. I expected the purpose of the Eagle (I will continue to refer to it that way) to be an enthusiast's car for those who want more room, comfort, and power than an Elise but still want the legendary handling, performance and light weight of a Lotus.


What made the Elise famous was its stellar performance and exotic appearance. What made people dislike it was its crammed interior, high sills, and lack of creature comforts.


What if you could have a slightly larger Elise with more power, all the necessary comforts, and all the performance? That's what I expected the Eagle to be...


Instead, the car is like an under-powered 911 with a Lotus badge.

Originally Posted by Hawkeye Mike

Lotus says they want to build and sell 2,000 Evora per year worldwide. If that small sum cannot be snapped-up by the combined group of Lotus loyalists and nuevo buyers, then Lotus should just stick to engineering consultancy and forget about selling cars.

I think they will end up selling more than that to be profitable. Maybe the 1st year will be held to 2k, but after that, I think they'll increase sales.

Originally Posted by wallabyguy

OK, I was going to let it go but here is more fuel to my arguement about the moonroof since it has become a focal point in discussion.

If this car is strictly aimed at the traditional Lotus buyer then why does it have Navigation and a paddle-shift automatic gearbox available? Obviously Lotus sees this car as a push into new market segments. These type of options are not supposed to appeal to A-Typical Lotus buyers but to traditional American luxury buyers. Lotus knows to survive, it needs to have vehicles that appeal to a wider variety of clientele. The beauty of the Evora is that because it exists, the Elise/ Exige can stay small, light and focused. They don't need to add features (and weight) to appeal to the more casual driver.

BTW, while I was working at Lotus of Greenwich, the Porsche dealer in town always complained to me that they couldn't sell Caymans and one fo the biggest problems was, "The car cost more than a Boxster and we can't even order a sunroof in the damn thing!" Not my quote, the SM there. It definitely hurt sales. The reality is that Porsche has struggled to sell the Cayman here (see the incentives placed on the cars) and the SM hit the nail on the head.

I remember the outrage that was expressed on this very forum that we couldn't order an Elise without AC or without a Radio in 2005. As a result, in 2006, Lotus offered a delete option. Would you like to know out of 1,800+ 2006 models, how many were ordered with the delete option? 6. 6 cars. All the complaints aboutthe added weight and the hardcore nature of the car and six people ordered it without AC. And if you want to see the long term implications of such an option, look at the aspen white car that had the AC delete option and sat here on the forums for sale for months and months. The owner contacted me at Lotus of Greenwich looking to sell it and I couldn't get Mark Starr to even consider it. And that was Mark Starr, Mr. Lotus Hardcore in the US (at least as far as dealers were concered).

Also, please note that the Esprit added a sunroof in the 80's because of demand. So did the Elite (Riviera model) and the Excel. These 4 seat models are precursors to the Evora.

I'm sorry to say it but the vocal minority is wrong here from a business perspective. From a drivers perspective you are right. But the market, on the whole, expects certain features on a car once it enters a segment. Oddly enough, you would have a better chance getting away without a moonroof if the car cost $200,000 plus then you do at this price point.

What's wrong with a moon roof that's just a removable panel and not a sliding piece of glass? Seems to be the best option. If you don't like it, don't use it. And if you do want it, take it out and throw it in the back seat!

[wallabyguy]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

What's wrong with a moon roof that's just a removable panel and not a sliding piece of glass? Seems to be the best option. If you don't like it, don't use it. And if you do want it, take it out and throw it in the back seat!

Mike,

You are dead on. It doesn't matter if it's a targa, removable roof (ala Esprit) or full Moonroof (power sliding glass), as long as it's available. A removable panel is the best option from a engineering and weight standpoint. It's also perfectly acceptable to have as an OPTION and not standard. As longa as it's available, everyone will be happy.

[TagMan]

Here's another pic of the Evora. And, a link to lots of information.

2010 Lotus Evora



TM

[Cegan09]

I do not like the name. I understand tradition, but they're going to have to break that eventually.

That said, i love the car, just wish i was more powerful. Yes i should reserve judgment till driving one, but still. Assuming i have the money, i'll hold out for the higher power version, and the 2-seater (non convertible) if that is still in the works. Or i'll wait to see what the new esprit looks like

[LARRY]

Lotus needs to figure out an advertisement to help people remenmber the name EVORA.

It's a bit hard to remember.

"Want a car to ADORA? Then it's the EVORA!"

"It's no SNORE-A. It's the EVORA."

"You want a car with MORE-A? It's the EVORA."

"Want to top the guy NEXT-DOOR A?" Get the EVORA."

[SouL]

Looks like it'll be in Gran Turismo. Cool.
(image stealthily stolen from a gtplanet post)