1993 or 74 Europa thinking

[eliseelise]

I sold my esprit s4, now thinking of an Europa, doing my research. What do you think?

[DeanG]

Much more of a sports car. Lack of a/c could be an issue.

It is easy to picture yourself fighting off Porsche 917s or Ferrari 333s at Le Mans while driving one on these.

[lotusforsale]

Originally Posted by eliseelise

I sold my esprit s4, now thinking of an Europa, doing my research. What do you think?

I owned a G bodied Esprit, and have owned 3 Europas.

The Europa is a whole lot less refined than your car. It handles better, but is quite a bit slower. Europa has much more of a kit car feel.

If you're looking at that black one at Wire Wheel, it's sweet.

[BDA]

lotusforsale is correct, it is less refined, but if you like to tinker, it's a great platform for modifying. I've built mine to be quite different from stock, but I am constantly amazed at what people have done to theirs. Different engines, transaxles, interiors, body work, frames, just about everything. This happens even though the car hasn't been in production for about forty years and there were only a few thousand made.

It's very light - I had mine weighed on a truck scale at 1600# with me in it! I really think it's probably a little heavier than that, but anyway you look at it, it's very light. I think the only street cars that might handle better might be a 7 or an Elan.

On the negative side, there are no door beams so it is not a car to be t-boned in. It's very low so it puts your defensive driving skills to the test - especially with all the SUVs on the roads. If you're really tall, you might have a problem, but then the body is fiberglass so you really can fix that!

If you drive a Europa, you are guaranteed to get a lot of comments and looks. Very few affordable cars garner the attention a Europa does. They are almost all very good buys. For whatever reason, they have not had the price appreciation that other Lotuses such as the Elan.

In the end, it's all in what you want. It might be just what you want, but if it isn't, it may not be for you.

[Lotus23S10]

BDA -- you're right: I had my stock Europa Special on scales to adjust the corner weights and it came in at 1558 total with 1/2 tanks of gas, no driver, no spare tire on an accurate 4 scale system. Note that that is ~400 pounds lighter than the current "lightweight" Elise!

...by the way, I once had a Europa Special with a Cosworth BDA(mild tune ~150hp) in it! Really great audio program as I had to remove firewall insulation to clear the belt drive on the front on the engine....aside from that and exhaust, just a "bolt-in". I'm sure there's a story behind your ID?

[eliseelise]

Thanks for info . What do you think of the one at Wire Wheel?

[BDA]

Originally Posted by Lotus23S10

BDA -- you're right: I had my stock Europa Special on scales to adjust the corner weights and it came in at 1558 total with 1/2 tanks of gas, no driver, no spare tire on an accurate 4 scale system. Note that that is ~400 pounds lighter than the current "lightweight" Elise!

...by the way, I once had a Europa Special with a Cosworth BDA(mild tune ~150hp) in it! Really great audio program as I had to remove firewall insulation to clear the belt drive on the front on the engine....aside from that and exhaust, just a "bolt-in". I'm sure there's a story behind your ID?

Yes, I have a 1600cc BDA in my car. Dave Bean built it for me many years ago and dynoed it at 177hp/7500rpm. It is dry sumped, aluminum flywheel, stainless steel headers, oil cooler (to the left of the license plate) and has 45mm Webers (it's a bit hotter than I really wanted)! I also got a lot of parts from Richard at Banks Service Station like twin link rear suspension, rear discs, front vented discs, and NG3 transaxle.

It all started when I was given a BDA head in partial payment for some work a buddy owed me. The bolt in aspect was very handy, but I also liked the idea that it was the next iteration after the TC. I have to say I have a LOT of respect for the guys who are putting Zetec's. That's a lot of work!

I posted some pictures posted here: Lotus Europa Owners Gallery :: Jim Grunewald and when I joined the forum here: Hi From NC

[TheKid#9]

Originally Posted by eliseelise

Thanks for info . What do you think of the one at Wire Wheel?

The one at wirewheel looks good, but in my opinion they are asking to much for it. The JPS dash plaque isn't right, and who knows if it is a real JPS. I would find that out first, if it is a real one I'd go for it! If not I think it's to much money, however it is still a good looking car! Try and get some service records too, just to make sure everything is good to go!

Europas are the best handling car! You don't drive it, you wear it!

[Lotus23S10]

re: JPS at Wire Wheel
Looks like a lot of mods for only 28k miles: Pertronix electronic ignition, Dave Bean headers, Spax adjustable shocks, Panasport alloy wheels – nice mods, but with that mileage I would have left it stock with factory alloys.

JPS dash badge is NOT from a numbered JPS car and no photo of build plate under front hood which would verify original color(L15 was gloss black) and VIN(there is a known range, but rumors of badges “distributed” outside the assembly line are common. Also replacement dash, wrong steering wheel, leather interior. No emission can/clamps on firewall, crossover pipes blocked no secondary throttles(gone because of header?). One rebuilt(cad plated) and one replaced brake booster(different style), no airbox or air cleaner can(used aftermarket replacements), dual engine cover prop rods. Modern fuses and re-wiring(probably a good idea); looks like an S2 or TC steel wheel on spare Dunlop tire(not a factory alloy). Minor discrepancies in re-striping(look wider than 3/16” but that may just be the photos?).

While this is not represented as ORIGINAL, the mods suggest a JPS “tribute” car constructed from a TC or Special – however the low mileage seems to imply originality. It appears to be a very nice, tastefully upgraded car(restoration?), but I doubt that it is an original numbered JPS Europa although represented as “real”. Any documentation of provenance available?

[BDA]

+1

Very nice car. I doubt that it is a "real" JPS but there is probably no way to prove if it is anyway. There were black Europas that weren't JPS. The badge is a fake and that should raise a red flag. $22K is a lot and it seems that some of that is based on the claim that it's a JPS - the buyer should get it for a few K less. It does seem that Europa prices are going up (at long last). I knew a guy who sold his very nice stock TCS for about $13K. That should give you a data point.

It's interesting that the JPS sticker is not on the 'B' pillar! Of course that's not evidence that it's a JPS either. My first Europa had it and it was white (there was no claim that it was a JPS)! My car now has the sticker, too. That's because I like them!

[eliseelise]

Thanks for insight. I was told by wire wheel that not all JPS had the dash badge ??? What do you think??

[lagonda38]

PM Sent

[XHILR8N!]

Europa the most fun car I've ever been in. Very thoughtfully laid out, very comfortable. But the only safety feature is the phrase "Don't hit anything".

As to the one on Wire Wheel. The dash badge is not there in all the pictures and does not appear to have a number. The electronics have been repositioned to the bay in front of the windscreen (so much more accessible but is that fair ?)
Not an original dash. Nice burl, looks great. All originals split up long ago.
The Panasport wheels are nice but not the originals for a TC, which I much prefer.

Here's ours [SOLD] 1974 Lotus Europa Special in JPS livery

And the second time around She's coming back!

I believe this is what an original badge looked like?

[High_Colorado]

Originally Posted by Lotus23S10

Note that that is ~400 pounds lighter than the current "lightweight" Elise!

?

HEY! The feds made us add the 400 pound airbags!

[ZetecEuropa]

A black Europa Special with gold pinstripes (very common) is exactly the same as a "JPS" in terms of equipment. The only difference is the dash badge. I never understood why a badge made a "JPS" more desirable or worth more than a Europa Special. Marketing is a powerful tool.

[XHILR8N!]

I believe all JPS had 5 speed trans while most TC had 4, like ours.

[ZetecEuropa]

I never saw a Europa Special in the U.S. with a 4 speed. The 5 Speed must have been a VERY popular option.

[ZetecEuropa]

I just noticed...your car is 3841R. Mine is 3871R. Probably on the floor at Hethel at the same time.

[BDA]

Originally Posted by XHILR8N!

I believe all JPS had 5 speed trans while most TC had 4, like ours.

My first Europa (white/gold stripes & JPS sticker) was a 4 speed and my current one is a 5 speed (originally green metallic/gold stripes, no JPS sticker). As I said, neither of them were 'JPS' models. I think the dealers put the stickers on some of their cars to dress them up. I don't know what the breakdown of 4 vs 5 speed Europas was but I think I saw more 5 speeds.

IIRC, in the discussion in the yahoo group about what a JPS Europa was, some came with extras like the JPS jackets, luggage, etc. I also think there was the supposition that at least some of the JPS Europas were made at the dealership.

[XHILR8N!]

Originally Posted by ZetecEuropa

I just noticed...your car is 3841R. Mine is 3871R. Probably on the floor at Hethel at the same time.

Way cool! I was on that floor last Summer. It's currently used for paint and body finish.