340R -- Is the DMV on crack?

[MyFutureSelfnMe]

That looks great. I can't believe nobody has done custom open-wheel clams.

[wantanelise]

hmmm could someone put that bodywork on an elise? same chassis?

[wantanelise]

does 340 mean 340 hp? If so... how? The biggest baddest exige has 260.

[ggelise]

340 was the targeted hp per ton but the production model fell a little short of this figure.

[andykeck]

Originally Posted by wantanelise

does 340 mean 340 hp? If so... how? The biggest baddest exige has 260.

It was supposed to be 340 HP per ton, but they missed. So then they only built 340 of them instead.

The engine is a four cylinder tweaked version of the Rover K-Series engine called VHPD (Very High Power Derivate) used in the regular Elise which produces 177 bhp (132 kW; 179 PS) at 7800 rpm/ 172 N·m (127 ft·lbf) at 6750 rpm as standard, or 187 bhp (139 kW; 190 PS) at 7500 rpm/ 189 N·m (139 ft·lbf) at 5600 rpm with optional Lotus accessories.

[MyFutureSelfnMe]

Originally Posted by wantanelise

hmmm could someone put that bodywork on an elise? same chassis?

As far as I know it's the same chassis as an S1 Elise, and I don't see why very similar bodywork can't be developed for an S2. I have half a mind to do it myself although I wouldn't do open rear wheels.

[Icedog_16]

Originally Posted by MyFutureSelfnMe

As far as I know, and this may depend on the state, your insurer has to pay out if you tell them the truth, i.e. the correct VIN number, storage location, etc.; it doesn't matter if the car is federally legal. Again this would be my first concern. Further, I believe in NY State, they have to pay out liability claims whether you lied to them or not, the worst they can do is drop your coverage afterward.

It would be nice to have an insurance expert on the forum to confirm/deny this.

Sorry, but I've been busy over the past couple of weeks and moving my office, but I'll step up to the plate. Insuring a 340R should not be a problem; state or federal legality is not the insurer's concern.

With respect to lying to an insurer, that is a bit stickier of a wicket than you've been led to believe. First, (at least in FL), it is a third-degree felony. Second, while the company may pay a claim and probably will (whether required by law or not - it's not the injured party's fault you didn't tell the truth, after all), they will likely come after your a$$ for the money since your misrepresentation obligated them to do so in the first place. Ultimately, insurance is a contract of utmost good faith; if you acted in bad faith, that's on you - whether the company would be entitled to treble damages and, unfortunately, I don't have time to research it right now.

Hope this at least gives some insight as to insurance aspect of the 340R issue - assuming it hasn't already been answered later in the thread that I haven't already read.

[Icedog_16]

Originally Posted by lotusforsale

All the insurance companies I've dealt with would run the VIN, immediately not find the car at all as being a fed approved car, and simply refuse to insure.

And if you knowingly registered a car you knew to be illegal...whether the insurance company is complicit or not, you wouldn't just get to say..."Safe! Get it from the insurance company." You too would be liable, and would get cleaned out.

See my prior response. A number of insurers will insure a car whether it's fed-approved or not. How do you think kit cars (Rossions, Superformances, etc) get insured? Likely it will be insured on a Stated Amount basis since no ISO symbol is available due to the VIN issue.

[ggelise]

It is all a matter of 1/2 full or 1/2 empty. The response above is on the money. With parts you are building a kit car which can be legally registered and insured. There are plenty of us who have done it.

[erics75218]

Found this thread last night...excited because it pushes almost every automotive and human button I have!

a) first off to Tpup or whatever, I have to point out that we don't all have the financial ability to "import race cars" to play with on the track. I'm sure you get to go to your track days, and enjoy your "race cars"...I wish I could....but alas, we are not all wealthy enough to do so.

so

b) We need to get a car here and make it a daily driver, or at least have the ability to. I wanted an S1 elise for YEARS and couldn't afford to go the gray market route so I had to wait till legal ones were available. If however I could have lied to get one, I would have done so immediately, :-D

c) If I have to lie to the government or the insurance agencies, which I may not have to, I'm gonna do it. I've donated enough money to the Progressive Insurance CEO get Rich fund, I feel I have enough equity to BS them a bit. I'll also lie to the government about my car, and I don't care. Somehow the US Gov saw it fit to unregulate banking to the point of economic meltdown, but can't loosen up a few stupid regulations regarding car imports. I guess Europe is full of idiots, since these cars are good enough for their roads, but not good enough for ours?

And don't EVEN get me started on emissions regulations and all that BS. Again, here in Los Angeles, polluted hellhole...we have the Long beach harbor pumping out more crap than you can even imagine. But it's the people on the 2-stroke dirt bikes who have to pay the price with all their green/red sticker crap. Again, it's misguided political bullcrap. I'm sure there is some union or corporation that donates enough money to keep that harbor a pollution machine. Same group clearly doesn't exist for motorcycle riders. CLEARLY all the pollution is from the BILLIONS of DIRT BIKES people use a few times a year on the weekend. California = Idiots

and last but not least

d) I'm gonna be dead in a few decades...if I want to drive a 340r in the canyons in Malibu, and I have the means to lie one into my hands..I'm gonna do it.

Rich "folk" will always have the means, is those of us on the "fence" that need to fib here and there to get what we want in the face of government stupidity.

[ggelise]

Life truly is very short. Have you thought about getting a good salvaged car and building a spider? You could make a legal 340r and go rip up the canyons. Perry's car is awesome. Buying some used clams with minor damage to cut up would make this a very cool project at half the cost of a 340R (I love the 340r too). Some of these salvaged cars with good chassis/engine go for very little $. Instead of buying a new 05 elise, wish I had done the spider instead. By the way, I am on the opposite side of rich and dreamed of a s1 Exige and finally pulled it off (it is a legally registered as a kit car-Honda engine)-so will you. See ya in canyons!

[Tickle]

Originally Posted by erics75218

California = Idiots

...Yeah but I think the "Idiots" Cali has in office are way more entertaining than the corruption we have in IL. (other than our Mayor of Chicago, that is ~ his quotes are priceless.) IL is just an embarrassment.

[MyFutureSelfnMe]

Eric, I thought people like you didn't exist anymore.

[MyFutureSelfnMe]

Tickle, IL may be corrupt, but it's surprisingly functional for all that.

[VMO/MMO]

Actually an attempt was made to change the laws a number of years ago to allow anybody to import a car for their own use (safety and bumper standards, not emissions). The big opposition to this came from...
the manufacturers. Porsche and others do not spend millions of dollars to qualify cars for the USA, only to have people buy cheaper, faster Euro spec cars and import them.
If it gets past the customs folks, you may get away with registering it in a state that is not to careful with things like that. If customs figures it out, you will get to export it or destroy it.
You can check with NHTSA to see if they have a record of how the car was imported, ie race car, show and display....

[E_Swift]

Mercedes was the company that actually lobbied the US Federal government to close the grey-market loophole in the late 1980's.

Still, everything VMO has said above is true.

In summary, no 340R or S1 elise is legal to drive on the road in the eyes of NHTSA and EPA, regardless of what your DMV may be fooled into believing.

[TimMullen]

Originally Posted by ggelise

a s1 Exige and finally pulled it off (it is a legally registered as a kit car-Honda engine)-so will you.

It may be legally registered in what ever state you are in, but it was still illegally imported into the US. The S1 Exige was a production car, so therefore under Federal regulations, it can not be turned into a "kit car" (noo matter how many changes you make to it). I sincerly hope that you don't get caught (and you might never get caught), but at any time if some Fed checks up on it, the can can be confiscated and destroyed - it has happened...

Originally Posted by VMO/MMO

Actually an attempt was made to change the laws a number of years ago to allow anybody to import a car for their own use (safety and bumper standards, not emissions).

Actually as I remember it, Regan did pass such a ruling - you could have a one time exemption for one car (only). It exempted the car from safety regulations, but it still had to be converted to meet emissions.

I believe regulation was recinded under Clinton.

[MyFutureSelfnMe]

I wish a ruling would be issued eliminating federal safety standards completely.

It should be up to insurers to decide how unsafe a car is.

The millions of dollars spent getting vehicles legalized "just to see people import faster/cheaper euro spec cars" shows why the system is brain damaged.

[Lancia]

Here a car may be issued a new vin after being rebuilt.
They have insisted on it, in fact.

The part quoted about circumventing clean air rules seems simple.
Easy now to meet or come close to emissions rules.
My 1968 junker is certified to beat mid-90s emissions rules for cali, and it does that with simple 90s technology.
Could easily be improved.
Power is 500/500.

Some of this might be usefully researched in the custom/kit car areas.
Plenty of experience there.
But this does show why so many people opt for custom cars over modified imported cars.

The question isn't whether it can be done, but will it make sense to you after the costs add up?

So many european cars are cost effective there, but more and more costly to get here if not imported in quantity.

A 2000-2500 pound car with a mid/front engine of 6 litres can be done for $20,000 to $30,000 easily.
Might not be an Enzo, but how badly can you make a 2000 pound car handle anyway?
Spend more and most "supercars" can't keep up.


Some imports can only be justified by emotion alone.
The Stratos kit is actually cheaper to build new, than importing a used original.

Annoying and stupid laws, for sure.

[Lancia]

My upgraded 1968 engine (which meets emission specs) also may not be registered in california because it has been upgraded for more power and efficiency.
If it had original parts and pollution output, it would be allowed.

Nothing stupider than california auto rules.
And they have cost the entire country a fortune.