Info / Pricing on a Europa - LotusTalk

Lotus Fury · 01-02-2008, 08:45 AM

Long story short,a gentleman from my area bought a 66 Europa from a friend that was in financial need. He doesn't want it. I am going out next weekend to take some pictures. Where is the best place to get info on it and figure out how much he should sell it for? Once I check it out I will update the thread. What I should look for? Any ballpark idea on a price range?

Thanks in advance!

tesprit · 01-02-2008, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lotus Fury

Long story short,a gentleman from my area bought a 66 Europa from a friend that was in financial need. He doesn't want it. I am going out next weekend to take some pictures. Where is the best place to get info on it and figure out how much he should sell it for? Once I check it out I will update the thread. What I should look for? Any ballpark idea on a price range?

Thanks in advance!

A '66 Europa? I always thought that '67 was the first year and those were the Series 1 cars not sold here in the US. Well anyway, what you will be looking at is an early S1 and if the year is right it will be the one with the fixed side windows which means no driving it in hot weather--you will cook in there with no opening windows. The most important thing to check on this car is the condition of the sheet steel backbone frame. The S1 had the frame bonded (fiberglassed) to the body and those frames loved to rust. Use a pick to test the frame everywhere you can--if the tip of pick bounces off the frame great, if it penetrates the metal, run away. The frame was never meant to be replaced so cutting it out of the body and using a S2 frame as a replacement is going to be the only method of repairing it, but it really isn't worth the effort. This car will also have the R16 Renault engine which should be checked for overheating and a blown head gasket. The rest of the car should be checked for body damage and overall condition. These cars battled it out with heavy American iron in their day and always lost the fight. Also check the completeness of the interior and exterior trim. These early cars had a completely different interior and trim than the Federal S2 and sourcing parts could be difficult.

As far as the price, I am not up on the modern pricing of Europas, but the S1 was always worth the least. An exceptionally clean and original car could command 5 figures, but I would think you are looking at about a $4500 car if it is functional and in the normal half worn out condition.

Feel free to PM me if you need more info--I cut my Lotus teeth on these Renault Europas. Good luck and post pics of the car if you can!

I just did a search for '66 Europas and it turns out they were announced Dec. 20, 1966 and first sold in Europe (France in particular) in Jan. 1967 so this must be a very early car.

Lotus Fury · 01-02-2008, 09:49 AM

To be clear I'm going to be helping him sell the car. Sorry I didn't say that in the original post. I'm not sure of anything with the car. I'll wait until I check it out in person before say for sure of anything. He did mention it did have the fixed windows. Thanks for the info. Once I get more info I will post it here. I'll make sure I check out the steel chassis. Around here in PA if he drove it in the cold weather he most likely got salt on it. Hopefully it is in good shape. He said he would like to see it go to someone that will take care of it.

evilfij · 01-02-2008, 10:11 AM

Please send pics to evilfij [at symbol] yahoo [dot] com

Lotus Fury · 01-02-2008, 10:19 AM

Once I get them I will.

tesprit · 01-02-2008, 10:35 AM

Here are a couple of links to get you started with Europas http://www.lotus-europa.com/knowledgebase.html http://www.wizerd.nl/Lotus46Register/

You should be able to pick up the differences between these early cars and the later Federal model. Good luck with the sale--I would personally wait until spring when the car will be the easiest to sell.

Lotus Fury · 01-15-2008, 04:35 PM

Not in is as good as shape as I had believed. No title. If anyone wants to talk to him about his car PM me and I will give you his number. He's looking for offers...

Pictures here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/christiankahle/Europa

kestrel74 · 01-15-2008, 05:06 PM

hmm..... basket case.....needs total restoration ( looks like to me anyway ).... I'd say ballpark pricing would be 1-2 K. DEPENDING on how good the frame is ..........( the body is bonded to the frame )

tmr · 01-15-2008, 07:01 PM

Having restored a vintage Elan, I'd say that someone could give you the car and you'd be upside down on a restoration. Early Europas probably cost about the same as a more desirable Europa T/C or Elan to restore, but would bring less money.

lotusforsale · 01-15-2008, 07:44 PM

This is basically a 'give it away to get it out of my yard/garage' car. Not much there that appears to be salvageable/restorable.

Somebody putting this car back to right would be doing so simply out of goodness of heart/ love of the marque. It's a money pit. One could easily put $30k worth of parts and sweat equity in this car and not sell it for much more than $7K fully restored.

tesprit · 01-15-2008, 07:52 PM

Yep, total restoration or a parts car. It is sad to see them in this condition, but S1 Europas just dont sell for much money and are expensive or difficult/impossible to restore with missing parts and/or rust. This one doesn't appear to have much going for it with the buckets of parts and the rest of the things in the trunk. Any photos of the underside and frame?

tvacc · 01-15-2008, 07:54 PM

Car is basically worthless for restoration. Lack of a title makes it difficult to get registered. If I were him I would throw it out on the Europa list and offer it to anyone that wants to come and get it. Start out at $1000. But take anything over $100.
If it were me I would find someone to give it to.....just so it gets a good home.

tesprit · 01-15-2008, 09:49 PM

It really would be nice to see this car go to a sympathetic Lotus enthusiast . S1 Europas are not that common in the USA because they were never sold here directly by Lotus (the type 46 was not a Federal car-think of it like an S1 Elise) so if the frame is solid it really should be restored because it really is a rare car. The S1 has the best lines of any of the Europas with the low nose with no turn signal warts above the bumper, the flush frameless windows, no exterior door handles, and the flying buttress rear design. It is the purest and lightest of all the Europas as well. Even the lack of a title can be worked out. Also, if no one wants to restore it I am sure there is someone out there with a S1 that could use some of the unique and valuable parts from this car. At least the car is fairly intact and doesn't appear to have had any major collision damage. It also appears to be a very early car according to the VIN tag--the 293rd Europa made. Again, did you get a good look at the frame and/or photos of it?

01-02-2008, 08:45 AM	#1 (permalink)
Lotus Fury Blame Canada, eh? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pgh, Pa Posts: 2,261	Info / Pricing on a Europa Long story short,a gentleman from my area bought a 66 Europa from a friend that was in financial need. He doesn't want it. I am going out next weekend to take some pictures. Where is the best place to get info on it and figure out how much he should sell it for? Once I check it out I will update the thread. What I should look for? Any ballpark idea on a price range? Thanks in advance!

01-02-2008, 10:11 AM	#4 (permalink)
evilfij Land Rover Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Main Line PA Posts: 769	Please send pics to evilfij [at symbol] yahoo [dot] com __________________ 2006 Autumn Gold Elise SELL ME YOUR AUTUMN GOLD HARDTOP PLEASE OR WILL TRADE FOR CARBON FIBER LOOK TOP I ALREADY HAVE

01-15-2008, 05:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
kestrel74 G-200 Driver Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: North of Detroit; Watkins Glen, NY Posts: 9,308	hmm..... basket case.....needs total restoration ( looks like to me anyway ).... I'd say ballpark pricing would be 1-2 K. DEPENDING on how good the frame is ..........( the body is bonded to the frame ) __________________ 74 Europa Zetec TC Special 3614R Elise #2292 / Chrome Orange !! / Starshield / Nitron Sport SA / RTDbrace / Uprights machined / Down Low rails / ChaseCam / V1 / SS lines w/ R4-S "My daily driver does .85 Mach" " I started flying when Sex was safe and Hang Gliding was dangerous " BUY My Europa ! http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f94/...pa-sale-43829/

01-15-2008, 07:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
tvacc Head LOONY Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 2,225	Car is basically worthless for restoration. Lack of a title makes it difficult to get registered. If I were him I would throw it out on the Europa list and offer it to anyone that wants to come and get it. Start out at $1000. But take anything over $100. If it were me I would find someone to give it to.....just so it gets a good home. __________________ Tony Vaccaro 2005 Ardent Red, Katana Supercharger, Touring, Hardtop, Driving Lights, HIDs, Rear Window Shield, Red Mounts, Laser Shifters, V1, LETSLA Shifter, www.lotusowners.com LOONY (Lotus Owners of New York) and the Church of the HolyLotus Supplier of Polycarbonate Shield for Rear Window IN STOCK , Drive Fast Take Chances

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01-02-2008, 09:49 AM	#3 (permalink)
Lotus Fury Blame Canada, eh? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pgh, Pa Posts: 2,261	To be clear I'm going to be helping him sell the car. Sorry I didn't say that in the original post. I'm not sure of anything with the car. I'll wait until I check it out in person before say for sure of anything. He did mention it did have the fixed windows. Thanks for the info. Once I get more info I will post it here. I'll make sure I check out the steel chassis. Around here in PA if he drove it in the cold weather he most likely got salt on it. Hopefully it is in good shape. He said he would like to see it go to someone that will take care of it.

01-02-2008, 10:19 AM	#5 (permalink)
Lotus Fury Blame Canada, eh? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pgh, Pa Posts: 2,261	Once I get them I will.

01-02-2008, 10:35 AM	#6 (permalink)
tesprit Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Racine, WI Posts: 1,925	Here are a couple of links to get you started with Europas http://www.lotus-europa.com/knowledgebase.html http://www.wizerd.nl/Lotus46Register/ You should be able to pick up the differences between these early cars and the later Federal model. Good luck with the sale--I would personally wait until spring when the car will be the easiest to sell.

01-15-2008, 04:35 PM	#7 (permalink)
Lotus Fury Blame Canada, eh? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pgh, Pa Posts: 2,261	Not in is as good as shape as I had believed. No title. If anyone wants to talk to him about his car PM me and I will give you his number. He's looking for offers... Pictures here: http://picasaweb.google.com/christiankahle/Europa

01-15-2008, 07:01 PM	#9 (permalink)
tmr ATL Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Atlanta, Georgia Posts: 498	Having restored a vintage Elan, I'd say that someone could give you the car and you'd be upside down on a restoration. Early Europas probably cost about the same as a more desirable Europa T/C or Elan to restore, but would bring less money.

01-15-2008, 07:44 PM	#10 (permalink)
lotusforsale Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Maryland Posts: 2,218 Images: 8	This is basically a 'give it away to get it out of my yard/garage' car. Not much there that appears to be salvageable/restorable. Somebody putting this car back to right would be doing so simply out of goodness of heart/ love of the marque. It's a money pit. One could easily put $30k worth of parts and sweat equity in this car and not sell it for much more than $7K fully restored.

01-15-2008, 07:52 PM	#11 (permalink)
tesprit Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Racine, WI Posts: 1,925	Yep, total restoration or a parts car. It is sad to see them in this condition, but S1 Europas just dont sell for much money and are expensive or difficult/impossible to restore with missing parts and/or rust. This one doesn't appear to have much going for it with the buckets of parts and the rest of the things in the trunk. Any photos of the underside and frame?

01-15-2008, 09:49 PM	#13 (permalink)
tesprit Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Racine, WI Posts: 1,925	It really would be nice to see this car go to a sympathetic Lotus enthusiast . S1 Europas are not that common in the USA because they were never sold here directly by Lotus (the type 46 was not a Federal car-think of it like an S1 Elise) so if the frame is solid it really should be restored because it really is a rare car. The S1 has the best lines of any of the Europas with the low nose with no turn signal warts above the bumper, the flush frameless windows, no exterior door handles, and the flying buttress rear design. It is the purest and lightest of all the Europas as well. Even the lack of a title can be worked out. Also, if no one wants to restore it I am sure there is someone out there with a S1 that could use some of the unique and valuable parts from this car. At least the car is fairly intact and doesn't appear to have had any major collision damage. It also appears to be a very early car according to the VIN tag--the 293rd Europa made. Again, did you get a good look at the frame and/or photos of it?

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