Lotus 23 Drivers? - LotusTalk

EburgE · 01-09-2006, 07:50 PM

There is a book that mentions the Lotus 23 was, in part, an inspiration for the Elise. I believe the Lotus 23 was built 1962-1966. I see some resemblence in the front fenders, headlights, grill and open cockpit.

Has anyone owned or driven a Lotus 23 who could comment about any similarities?

andykeck · 01-09-2006, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EldersburgElise

There is a book that mentions the Lotus 23 was, in part, an inspiration for the Elise. I believe the Lotus 23 was built 1962-1966. I see some resemblence in the front fenders, headlights, grill and open cockpit.

Has anyone owned or driven a Lotus 23 who could comment about any similarities?

It's on my very short list of dream purchases...

Troy_Audio · 01-09-2006, 11:30 PM

Nice That Looks Awsome!

I love them Old racers
Peace Troy

EburgE · 01-10-2006, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andykeck

It's on my very short list of dream purchases...

The Lotus 23 or the book?

Andrikos · 01-10-2006, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andykeck

It's on my very short list of dream purchases...

If you can't afford one of the 130 originals, try this:
http://www.xanthoscars.co.uk/

andykeck · 01-10-2006, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrikos

If you can't afford one of the 130 originals, try this:
http://www.xanthoscars.co.uk/

One of the local club members has one of those and drives it to our events. Now that's a car you don't want to have an accident in!

If only my wife were more understanding. Instead of remodeling the basement, I could just buythis instead. It'll probably cost about the same either way. I can't believe she doesn't see things my way~

huncher · 01-10-2006, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EldersburgElise

There is a book that mentions the Lotus 23 was, in part, an inspiration for the Elise. I believe the Lotus 23 was built 1962-1966. I see some resemblence in the front fenders, headlights, grill and open cockpit.

Has anyone owned or driven a Lotus 23 who could comment about any similarities?

Inspiration only in the sense of small, low, and light. The chassis are totally dissimilar.

If you see one in person you have to really stretch to see a family resemblance between the 23 and the Elise.

Andrikos · 01-10-2006, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andykeck

Instead of remodeling the basement, I could just buythis instead.

Sweet!
Let me think:
Automotive history or remodeling?

I mean, is it even close?
I wish I had a few expendable millions to start my Lotus museum...

jturrell · 01-10-2006, 05:28 PM

I've been lusting after this one for a while:

http://www.utahlotusmuseum.com/id106.htm

I just can't bring myself to spend $75,000 on a track-only car (yet). And my wife would kill me. It's on my short list of dream cars too.

lotusmark · 01-17-2006, 10:46 AM

I had a 23 clone before the Elise. It was one of Lee Noble's earlier projects. It is currently still being produced at:

www.mambamotorsport.co.uk

I'll put some pics of mine up tonight.

As to how it comparesto the Elise, I've always thought that the Elise was like a cross between the 23 and Europa as far as handling goes.

khamai · 01-17-2006, 11:49 AM

Nick Adams, lead engineer on the Croft project (Elise) purchased a 23 a year or so ago and is currently restoring it with plans to race it.

As for comparisons...
1) You can feel the weight of the Elise. A 23 to an Elise is like an Elise to a Vette.

2) You can imagine faster response? 23 is much quicker than the Elise.

3) 23 = harsher ride. No rubber in the suspension, all rod ends

4) 23 = lots of vibrations. The Twin Cam has a inherent vibration around 6500 rpm and the engine/transaxle are solid mounted to the chassis. All of that goes straight into your backside

5) In a 23 your head gets banged around by wind buffeting.

6) In a 23 your ears are only 12" from the Twink, ear plugs are required.

7) 23 understeers in low speed corners, but is neutral in mid to high speed corners. Like the Elise it likes straightline braking, throttle on thru the corner. You don't want to lift mid-corner in a 23.

8) 23 shift mechanism is pretty heavy, there's a long hollow tube rod with a couple U-joints from the shift lever to the back of the Hewland. Also, the Hewland is fitted with straight cut gears, so there's lots of gear whine and double clutch downshifts are neccessary. Up shifts can be done with a slight throttle lift and a tug on the shift lever (no clutch).

9) Sitting in the 23 and looking at an Elise will be like sitting in an Elise and looking at a SUV.

10) Power to weight? 23 = half the weight of the Elise with equal HP (Twink).

I too would like to own a 23 some day, but I've got my 41 to play with for now (a Lotus 41 is akin to a open wheel formula version of the 23).

Kiyoshi

andykeck · 01-17-2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khamai

I too would like to own a 23 some day, but I've got my 41 to play with for now (a Lotus 41 is akin to a open wheel formula version of the 23).

Kiyoshi

Wow. Somehow I missed that fact. Now I'm really jealous.

lotus54 · 01-17-2006, 12:47 PM

I could have picked up a FJ Lotus (22?) for $1500 WITH a trailer and spares back around 1982.
I was in my Europa visiting friends and didn't have an easy way to bring it home- still kicking myself on that one.
Along with the S1 Elan I could have gotten for $1500. (had a stock Ford engine, not the twink). Can't believe I didn't buy that one.

Mark

khamai · 01-17-2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andykeck

Wow. Somehow I missed that fact.

A few pixs of the GGLC display at the San Francisco Auto Show. Stan R's 23 (#66) and the white/blue stripe car is my 41.
http://www.gglotus.org/ggpast/2005sfshow/2005sfshow.htm

I hope to have the 41 back on the track this spring (fingers crossed).

Cheers,
Kiyoshi

TimMullen · 01-17-2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lotus54

I could have picked up a FJ Lotus (22?) for $1500 WITH a trailer and spares back around 1982.

I sold my Lotus 20 FJ back in '80 to have money for the down payment of the new house (I was getting married).

I also had a line on a 23B for around $3,500 with trailer and spares, but I had to pass on it.

At least my wife wouldn't let me sell the Elan - I still have both of them...

ervsch · 01-17-2006, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrikos

If you can't afford one of the 130 originals, try this:
http://www.xanthoscars.co.uk/

Somehow the Xanthos doesn't look right to me... I can't quite put my finger on it.

I've seen them in person, and, at least to my eye, they're just not quite the same proportionally?

Can't afford a 23 now, but if I won the lottery that'd be the first car on the list!

lotusmark · 01-17-2006, 04:00 PM

1600 drysumped crossflow.

lotusmark · 01-17-2006, 04:06 PM

More pics

CodeRed · 01-18-2006, 07:34 AM

I plan on getting a 23b/c soooner or later, just waiting for the venture capital investments to finally hit....it's been a long 7 years! Tech is back!

ervsch · 01-18-2006, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lotusmark

1600 drysumped crossflow.

Hey Mark! Nice 23 clone - nice to see it leaks just like the real thing!

How are you doing - mending well after the personal restoration project?

01-09-2006, 07:50 PM	#1 (permalink)
EburgE Super 7 Owner In Training Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Eldersburg, MD Posts: 2,416	Lotus 23 Drivers? There is a book that mentions the Lotus 23 was, in part, an inspiration for the Elise. I believe the Lotus 23 was built 1962-1966. I see some resemblence in the front fenders, headlights, grill and open cockpit. Has anyone owned or driven a Lotus 23 who could comment about any similarities?

01-09-2006, 11:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
Troy_Audio Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Dewey,Az(Prescott) Posts: 779	Nice That Looks Awsome! I love them Old racers Peace Troy __________________ Nothing Can Replace Skill http://turnfast.com

01-17-2006, 10:46 AM	#10 (permalink)
lotusmark Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 641	I had a 23 clone before the Elise. It was one of Lee Noble's earlier projects. It is currently still being produced at: www.mambamotorsport.co.uk I'll put some pics of mine up tonight. As to how it comparesto the Elise, I've always thought that the Elise was like a cross between the 23 and Europa as far as handling goes. Last edited by lotusmark : 01-17-2006 at 11:16 AM.

01-17-2006, 11:49 AM	#11 (permalink)
khamai Plain ol' Lotus-nut Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 3,562	Nick Adams, lead engineer on the Croft project (Elise) purchased a 23 a year or so ago and is currently restoring it with plans to race it. As for comparisons... 1) You can feel the weight of the Elise. A 23 to an Elise is like an Elise to a Vette. 2) You can imagine faster response? 23 is much quicker than the Elise. 3) 23 = harsher ride. No rubber in the suspension, all rod ends 4) 23 = lots of vibrations. The Twin Cam has a inherent vibration around 6500 rpm and the engine/transaxle are solid mounted to the chassis. All of that goes straight into your backside 5) In a 23 your head gets banged around by wind buffeting. 6) In a 23 your ears are only 12" from the Twink, ear plugs are required. 7) 23 understeers in low speed corners, but is neutral in mid to high speed corners. Like the Elise it likes straightline braking, throttle on thru the corner. You don't want to lift mid-corner in a 23. 8) 23 shift mechanism is pretty heavy, there's a long hollow tube rod with a couple U-joints from the shift lever to the back of the Hewland. Also, the Hewland is fitted with straight cut gears, so there's lots of gear whine and double clutch downshifts are neccessary. Up shifts can be done with a slight throttle lift and a tug on the shift lever (no clutch). 9) Sitting in the 23 and looking at an Elise will be like sitting in an Elise and looking at a SUV. 10) Power to weight? 23 = half the weight of the Elise with equal HP (Twink). I too would like to own a 23 some day, but I've got my 41 to play with for now (a Lotus 41 is akin to a open wheel formula version of the 23). Kiyoshi __________________ life is better behind the wheel of a Lotus...

01-17-2006, 04:00 PM	#17 (permalink)
lotusmark Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 641	My Noble 23 1600 drysumped crossflow. Attached Images

01-10-2006, 05:28 PM	#9 (permalink)
jturrell Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 220	I've been lusting after this one for a while: http://www.utahlotusmuseum.com/id106.htm I just can't bring myself to spend $75,000 on a track-only car (yet). And my wife would kill me. It's on my short list of dream cars too.

01-17-2006, 12:47 PM	#13 (permalink)
lotus54 Nightfall Blue Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Port Angeles, WA Posts: 593	I could have picked up a FJ Lotus (22?) for $1500 WITH a trailer and spares back around 1982. I was in my Europa visiting friends and didn't have an easy way to bring it home- still kicking myself on that one. Along with the S1 Elan I could have gotten for $1500. (had a stock Ford engine, not the twink). Can't believe I didn't buy that one. Mark

01-17-2006, 04:06 PM	#18 (permalink)
lotusmark Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 641	More pics Attached Images

01-18-2006, 07:34 AM	#19 (permalink)
CodeRed Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 138	I plan on getting a 23b/c soooner or later, just waiting for the venture capital investments to finally hit....it's been a long 7 years! Tech is back!

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