Market Value for a Europa

[kgalgas]

I drive my son to school and he walks home after school. Recently he told that there is an old Lotus that he passes on his way home sitting on the side of the driveway and it looks like a John Player Special.

So the other day I take a ride up the street, and sure enought there is a Europa JPS sitting there. I did not take a close look, but it looked like it was in good condition. Then I get the wild notion, since I have the Elise JPS why not get a Europa JPS and start a collection. When I talked to my son about the Elan, to my surprise he said he did not like the looks of the car, but when I told what my stupid idea was, and showed him pictures of the Europa, he thought it be cool.

Before I talk to the owner, I like to get an idea of what I could be getting myself into, if I find he would interesting in selling it.

My question is what would be a fair price for on in fair, good and excellant condition? (mind you it does not appeared to be garaged or moved since my son first saw it, e.g. for a while)

And how realiable is the car, engine, tranmission, etc. as a week-end/ play around car?

And what would I be getting myself into?

[lotusforsale]

Originally Posted by kgalgas

I drive my son to school and he walks home after school. Recently he told that there is an old Lotus that he passes on his way home sitting on the side of the driveway and it looks like a John Player Special.

So the other day I take a ride up the street, and sure enought there is a Europa JPS sitting there. I did not take a close look, but it looked like it was in good condition. Then I get the wild notion, since I have the Elise JPS why not get a Europa JPS and start a collection. When I talked to my son about the Elan, to my surprise he said he did not like the looks of the car, but when I told what my stupid idea was, and showed him pictures of the Europa, he thought it be cool.

Before I talk to the owner, I like to get an idea of what I could be getting myself into, if I find he would interesting in selling it.

My question is what would be a fair price for on in fair, good and excellant condition? (mind you it does not appeared to be garaged or moved since my son first saw it, e.g. for a while)

And how realiable is the car, engine, tranmission, etc. as a week-end/ play around car?

And what would I be getting myself into?

First off, you MUST be a hobbyist, ie you not only can turn a wrench, but enjoy turning a wrench. These cars are great fun, but require a whole lot of attention.

There really is no such thing as one in good shape. Even fully restored, if you use it all kinds of things can and will go wrong with some regularity. This is a hobby car, not a weekend toy car.

There are those who will tell you otherwise, but I guarantee you those are the ones who think nothing of doing a body -off over the winter, enjoy rebuilding carbs on the kitchen table in the evening.

If this car is just 'sitting there' out in the open, and has been, it most certainly will need some work. Unless you want to do it as a hobby, I would not suggest buying one to restore, even a mild restoration. You will spend a ton of money and the guy you sell it to will get a bargain. A few years ago I bought a stunningly restored Europa S2 for $6500, along with it came a binder full of receipts totalling over $35,000 in parts and some paid labor.

I''m not knocking them, I happily owned 2 S2's and a Twin Cam (mechanically identical to the JPS...the JPS was all paint job, biscuit interior, and cheap gold tape stripes).

Owning and maintaining an older Europa is in no way similar to owning and maintaining a current Elise/Exige. When you look at a 'nice' Europa, there are SO many things that could be expensively wrong that you cannot see unless you, or someone you bring with you, really knows what to look for.

So many have mods by PO's that are 'improvements': electrical, mechanical, etc....that really make the cars even more difficult to put right.

There are also a fair number of counterfeit JPS Europas out there. After all, they were merely painted black Twin Cams with easily available striping and decals.

Spend a LOT of time researching. Start here:

http://www.gglotus.org/gglink/gglink.htm

And talk to Hayes Harris at:

www.wirewheel.com

Good luck!

[Dmbrown34]

You would be getting yourself into trouble.

In college I had a CB 750 hard tail chopper and a Gen II Firebird. Yeah, they were a BLAST when they worked...but I do you really want to tinker around? Its fun for a while...then you get tired of it. Yes, you would afford it...but it will grow old.

Unless you plan on taking it to car shows where others will praise you for what you are doing, it would not be that fun. Your wife will start asking questions about 50 - 200 dollar parts going to your toy car instead of her ward robe!!

[kgalgas]

Originally Posted by Dmbrown34

You would be getting yourself into trouble.

Unless you plan on taking it to car shows where others will praise you for what you are doing, it would not be that fun. Your wife will start asking questions about 50 - 200 dollar parts going to your toy car instead of her ward robe!!

Thanks for the input.

As far as the wife, I do not have to worry about that, as I am divorced and do not tend to swing that way. There is a lot to said about not having to answer to any one other then yourself, whether you are making good or bad decisions.

[Dmbrown34]

haha - just trying to add some humor

[kgalgas]

Originally Posted by Dmbrown34

haha - just trying to add some humor

Actually, a wife would not be a bad idea, never had one of those. At least I could come home and get a home cooked meal and have the wash and kitchen cleaned, rather then mom make me this, when will dinner be ready, and could you get me that, and having to scream at the kids to clean up their cloths and pick up their glass and dishes.

This is what led to the divorce, I would come home after working 10/ 11 hour days and shopping for food, then they would be all sitting on the coach watching the hockey game. Walk into the kitchen with dishes everywhere. Upon entering the kitchen, they would start barking order for this and that. I finally said I had enough, I work all day and clean up all night and generate all the income, get off your flicking axx and start contributing. Then I get divorce papers, demanding child and spousal support.

[lotusforsale]

Originally Posted by kgalgas

Actually, a wife would not be a bad idea, never had one of those. At least I could come home and get a home cooked meal and have the wash and kitchen cleaned, rather then mom make me this, when will dinner be ready, and could you get me that, and having to scream at the kids to clean up their cloths and pick up their glass and dishes.

This is what led to the divorce, I would come home after working 10/ 11 hour days and shopping for food, then they would be all sitting on the coach watching the hockey game. Walk into the kitchen with dishes everywhere. Upon entering the kitchen, they would start barking order for this and that. I finally said I had enough, I work all day and clean up all night and generate all the income, get off your flicking axx and start contributing. Then I get divorce papers, demanding child and spousal support.

OK, then you've got a pretty good idea of what buying and owning that long idle JPS Europa would be like.

[Alphonse]

Before you get real involved in the puruit of this project you might want to get onto the Europa Yahoo groups site and start asking questions. There are some very knowledgable Europa owners there who have gone thrugh everything from minor fixes to ground up restorations.
Be forewarned they are a wiley bunch, but they know those cars better than anyone.
Chances are good they may even know something about the car you are looking at.
Give them a try and cood luck.

If you are interested in a Europa tat is about 85% completely restored with upgraded Toyota motor and trans email me off line and I can connect you with the woner. It is located in Houston,Tx.

Al B.
al.brussich@sbcglobal.net

[dwkoski]

As has been previously posted, Europa's are wonderful cars if you are mechanically inclined. I bought mine new in '73 and still drive it a bit. It took first in class at the Log in Aspen this year. It's quite a different feel from the Elise and if you enjoy one, you'll love the other. That said, they were high maintenance when new and don't improve with age. Parts are still readily available though and if you enjoy tinkering they can be just the thing to take to the local import car show or vintage autocross. I spent 7 years and 6,000 hours restoring mine which proves that I am certifiably insane. The advice to look for a restored car versus a cheap basket case is advice beyond value. These cars are time consuming and expensive to rebuild and their restored value will never return the investment. Still, for the Lotus purist.....good luck...Dave