CANBUS RE analysis

[rob13572468]

Originally Posted by darkSol

Indeed there seems to be an extra wire that is JUST for the odometer...

Any thoughts?

no, the lead from A1 is the 12 volt supply lead for the odometer; no signals on it.

[rob13572468]

Originally Posted by charliex

FYI the ecu uses can 2.0b not 2.0

2.0b is the specification for 29 bit identifiers rather than 11 bit but is backward compatible. the identifier is more commonly known as the message ID and 2.0b was drafted because larger networks could concievably use more individual messages than the 2048 maximum. using 29 bit id's allows for over 500 million.

funny thing about the elise is that it still only uses 11 bit ID's even though it supports the 2.0b specification. future upgradeability i guess....

[Evl]

Originally Posted by rob13572468

the idea is to build a better unit AND better analysis software using open source and community help and save some money in the process. it just takes a bit of effort and interest.

If anyone is interested in this, PM me, and I could set up a mail-list. I'd be interested in getting something like this going. Not because I don't think the DL1 is a good product, but because I'm sick and would like to be able to program the firmware of one.

I've been thinking about this for a while, but have put it off. Now I'm starting a project at work that is going to be somewhat similar, so I'm thinking it might be a fun thing to try.

[charliex]

2.0b, indeed rob its just nice to know you can use it if you needed, the toucan is a decent little system.

[usofrob]

Originally Posted by Evl

If anyone is interested in this, PM me, and I could set up a mail-list. I'd be interested in getting something like this going. Not because I don't think the DL1 is a good product, but because I'm sick and would like to be able to program the firmware of one.

I've been thinking about this for a while, but have put it off. Now I'm starting a project at work that is going to be somewhat similar, so I'm thinking it might be a fun thing to try.

I'm very interested in this. I like the idea of doing it myself even if it doesn't come out as well. I'm a software engineer by trade. I've been doing low level c programming recently. So, any gui's I write are text based, but that's the way I like it.

[Ground Loop]

Rob, do you think the speed byte might simply be kilometers-per-hour? It's lining up pretty close here. A full 0xFF km would be 159 mph, or full tilt.

Also, I'm thinking the 0x02 bit might be the oil pressure indicator in the status byte.

Not sure about the 0x04 bit. Mine stays set before and while cranking, and goes out after the car is running for only a second, and comes on again about two seconds after shutting down.

[Surferjer]

I wonder if anyone will use this information for evil? Not me-my "doings" in the car have been recorded and shipped twice already.

[TimMullen]

Originally Posted by Ground Loop

Not sure about the 0x04 bit. Mine stays set before and while cranking, and goes out after the car is running for only a second, and comes on again about two seconds after shutting down.

That sounds like it could be an oil pressure signal. On means no pressure, off means pressure - like an idiot light. Does the signal match the oil warning light's activities?

Unfortunately it doesn't sound like it indicates the amount of oil pressure...

[xxxotic]

I found a site that sells Lotus parts and saw that there is a speed sensor for Elises. It is for series 2, so I dont know if it applies to US cars, but it means that their might be a way to link into something for Los Angeles touring pack radios that have the adjustment for volume based on speed.

The link also lists other sensors too.

Lotus speed sensor

[Arno]

Originally Posted by xxxotic

I found a site that sells Lotus parts and saw that there is a speed sensor for Elises. It is for series 2, so I dont know if it applies to US cars, but it means that their might be a way to link into something for Los Angeles touring pack radios that have the adjustment for volume based on speed. [/URL]

Probably same sensor as the 111R/Fed-Elise uses on all 4 wheels for the ABS.

The 'normal' Elise (without ABS of course! ) uses one different bearing wich has the toothed ring for the speed sensor installed. The 111R/Fed-Elise uses 4 of those..

Perhaps a speed-pulse can be 'borrowed' from the ABS unit in the Fed-Elise.

Bye, Arno.

[Ground Loop]

Originally Posted by TimMullen

That sounds like it could be an oil pressure signal. On means no pressure, off means pressure - like an idiot light. Does the signal match the oil warning light's activities?

You're probably right. I need to go stall the car and see. The 0x02 indicator clears as soon as the crank first turns. Then 0x04 about two seconds later when the engine catches.

Unfortunately it doesn't sound like it indicates the amount of oil pressure...

Naw, this is just the dribble that get sent to the dash cluster. There's much more fun to be had than this, I expect.

Here's what cold starting looks like. Time is Minutes:seconds, of course:

Speed: 0 mph RPM:    0 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 06 Time:   1:48.832
Speed: 0 mph RPM:    0 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 06 Time:   1:48.931
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  143 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:49.030
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  174 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:49.129
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  245 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:49.228
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  260 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:49.328
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  176 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:49.427
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  180 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:49.526
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  270 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:49.625
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  248 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:49.724
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  169 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:49.823
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  262 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:49.923
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  292 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:50.022
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  284 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:50.121
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  198 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:50.220
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  281 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:50.319
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  275 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:50.419
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  408 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:50.518
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  387 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:50.617
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  287 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 04 Time:   1:50.716
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  564 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 00 Time:   1:50.815
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  797 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 00 Time:   1:50.915
Speed: 0 mph RPM:  999 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 00 Time:   1:51.014
Speed: 0 mph RPM: 1107 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 00 Time:   1:51.113
Speed: 0 mph RPM: 1250 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 00 Time:   1:51.212
Speed: 0 mph RPM: 1443 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 00 Time:   1:51.311
Speed: 0 mph RPM: 1448 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 00 Time:   1:51.410
Speed: 0 mph RPM: 1402 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 00 Time:   1:51.510
Speed: 0 mph RPM: 1402 Temp:  94 Fuel: 99% Status: 00 Time:   1:51.609

[rob13572468]

Originally Posted by Ground Loop

You're probably right. I need to go stall the car and see. The 0x02 indicator clears as soon as the crank first turns. Then 0x04 about two seconds later when the engine catches

the bit positions correspond to the indicator lights. only three are controlled via CAN

01- shift light
02- engine light
04- oil light

so the 06 that you see in the run position with the engine off means that the engine and oil lights are on (which is normal because of the startup test). you can actually turn the lights on by sending messages with those bits set at a greather frequency than the ecu sends them.

[Joetz]

Originally Posted by rob13572468

the uses for this data so far are pretty obvious: it is a solution to the aforementioned speed sensor wire connection that is needed for the speed controlled volume and navigation dead reckoning. microchip inc. sells a microcontroller, 18F248 with a built in CAN controller for around $6 and the CAN transciever (MCP2515) for $2. add crystal and regulator and you have a working unit for ten bucks. the 18F248 also has a bulit in UART, which means that with the addition of one more chip, an RS232 transciever (max232) for another $5 and you have a speed pulse generator and CAN-to-RS232 convertor.

I'm very impressed by your wealth of knowledge. I've got an in-dash NAV system that seems to require a VSS signal to work at all. I'd be willing to pay a reasonable amount of cash for some sort of VSS kit and I think others on the forum would as well.

[charliex]

they list speedo, tach, fuel,water temp, mil, shift light, oil press, tyre pressure?
on the can function list for the cluster.

so far i've seen rpm, o2 sensors, throttle position, MAF, VSS, coolant temp, IAT, engine runtime, MIL distance (this is an interesting little spy), baro pressure, VIN, battery and a bunch of other things.

[Joetz]

Originally Posted by charliex

they list speedo, tach, fuel,water temp, mil, shift light, oil press, tyre pressure?
on the can function list for the cluster.

so far i've seen rpm, o2 sensors, throttle position, MAF, VSS, coolant temp, IAT, engine runtime, MIL distance (this is an interesting little spy), baro pressure, VIN, battery and a bunch of other things.

That's a lot of info. This may be a stupid question, but what is MIL?

[charliex]

mil = check engine light

"malfunction indicator light" is the mouthful it stands for

[Sky]

Ground Loop -
Any new info on viability of using Elise instrument panel as display for V1, as you had teased earlier? It is time for me to order a V1, and I am trying to determine which route to go for display.
Thanks for all your work and info.
-Sky

[Ground Loop]

Originally Posted by Sky

Ground Loop -
Any new info on viability of using Elise instrument panel as display for V1, as you had teased earlier?

That was Rob12309755, he's the one doing the hard work. My own CANBus hacks are all laptop-based right now and too expensive to be viable for anything.

[Sky]

Right - So to you Rob12309755 - Any new news on this front?

[kverges]

if you could accept oil pressure and temp data I'd like that, perhaps with a simple pushbutton to toggle from fuel & ODO reading to oil temp & pressure. Is that possible?

[IBCJ]

Has anyone else made progress with this? I'd like to resurect this project and am very interested in spearheading a GPL'd movement for both hw and sw dev for the CANbus on our Elises.

Thoughts anyone?

[Sky]

I am also very interested in bringing something to fruition here (particularly as it pertains to a speed sensor signal, and potential for Valentine 1 display). If there is anything I can do to help, let me know.
-Sky

Originally Posted by cjl

Has anyone else made progress with this? I'd like to resurect this project and am very interested in spearheading a GPL'd movement for both hw and sw dev for the CANbus on our Elises.

Thoughts anyone?

[Joetz]

I need a speed signal for the in-dash nav I have. Without it, the system won't work. Period.

For those of you who wish to add your own VSS, there are some problems that may be insurmountable. I have a VSS kit to work with a Blaupunkt travel pilot and there is no way I can think of mounting it. They have a diagram on how to mount it, but on a Lotus, there is nothing behind the rotor to tap a screw in so the sensor can read the tape.

[Joetz]

Just to clarify things a bit...

The picture I added above is from the manual of the VSS kit. It is a diagram of a rim with the magnetic strip installed, not a picture of my own Elise. The Elise doesn't have a place to mount a sensor as shown in the diagram.

[Ground Loop]

There is already a wheel speed sensor on each wheel.

If you have a high-impedance input, you can probably just tap (carefully) the shielded sensor line. But it's for the ABS so I'd rather not.

Fortunately, you can also pick up the same four signals after they've been buffered and amplified by the ABS logic. They're in the wire bundle between the ABS and ECU. See the wiring diagrams.

Seems a lot easier than mounting another sensor on the wheels.

[Ruediger]

Sorry for hijacking this interesting thread but I would like to ask if somebody of the experts in electronics posting here already has heard something about this ECU and:
Do you think that it also might be used in a boosted Elise?

http://www.msefi.com

Rüdiger

[Joetz]

Originally Posted by Ground Loop

There is already a wheel speed sensor on each wheel.

If you have a high-impedance input, you can probably just tap (carefully) the shielded sensor line. But it's for the ABS so I'd rather not.

Fortunately, you can also pick up the same four signals after they've been buffered and amplified by the ABS logic. They're in the wire bundle between the ABS and ECU. See the wiring diagrams.

Seems a lot easier than mounting another sensor on the wheels.

Maybe, but I couldn't figure it out. For me, it was awfully easy attaching the tape to the inside of the front wheel and bolting the sensor to the existing bracket of the abs sensor. Then you just run the wire through the rubber donut all the other wires go through in the passenger footwell, up through the cubby on the right side, and then accross that shelf that is under the passenger airbag, which leads to the back of the radio.

I now have what may be the first elise on the planet with a proper speed sensor. Anyone running an in-dash system with no speed sensor is really missing out I think. My GPS is accurate to what seems like an inch.

[tvacc]

I have mounted a magnet on the rear wheel which sends a signal to the Panoram Bike Speedo on my dash. good up to 115mph and dead accurate.

Works great for me. I installed the week after I got the car...March 2005.

I just could not put up with an indicated 80 and only doing 73-74 Mine is better at low speeds...only about 2 mph off and increases as you go higher..

Tony V
www.lotusowners.com

[sandsmuseum]

AutoEnginuity manufactures scan tools and claims they have 60% share of the scan tool market for professionals.

I have purchased one of their scan tools and am doing an analysis for this group. However I have experienced some problems with the update rate and control of the car's functions while using the tool.

AutoEnginuity wants to do some diagnostic work and wants to upgrade the tool's ability to get to some of the extra data in the Lotus ECU.

If you live in Mesa, AZ or close by and are interested in letting them plug into your car, they will provide a their tool to you at cost for your troubles. Please let me know if you are interested and I will provide the contact information.

You can check out their product at autoenginuity.com.

This is not(!) a recommendation for their product. In fact, I suggest you hold off on purchasing one until the problems I have seen are resolved.

Michael

[Evl]

Originally Posted by rob13572468

the elise regularly transmits only one frame/message ID# and that is 400h (hex).

Has anyone yet observed/decoded any other frame IDs? Thanks for the update!