New 4.5lb battery? Old?

[jriva]

My friend was letting me know his buddy was developing a new battery, that weighs 4.5 lbs.

https://s.p10.hostingprod.com/@www.v...dfc395a01a89c6


here's the info from the website.

Voltphreaks 12 Volt car battery. This is compatible with all passenger cars and trucks. Replace your 12 volt lead-acid starter battery with this one and save 30 to 40 pounds! Current state of the art in battery technology (safe nano-phosphate lithium).

Standard lead-acids last 3 to 5 years before needing replacement. Voltphreak's LiFePO4 battery will last 5 to 10 years. Besides saving weight, you will have less voltage drop under load, for stronger cranks. Plus it's less affected by cold weather than a lead-acid battery. We've cold cranked a BMW M3 10+ times without any issues, then left the headlights on and radio blaring for 15 minutes, and then cranked again, and the car cranked same as before!

This battery does not have the thermal runaway issues of standard lithium batteries, and is much safer. In fact, it's way safer than the lead-acid battery currently in your car, and better for the environment too! Check out more information on nanophosphate lithium technology.

Because this battery is a lot smaller than standard lead-acids, you can screw or bolt mount using the mounting flanges. We used double-sided emblem tape to mount the battery in our personal car.

Our warranty and return policy
Refunds are allowed for ANY reason, doesn't crank your car, you don't like how it looks, you just wanted to try the battery out, etc. You just can't abuse the battery (running it over, putting it in a fire, etc). So feel safe in purchasing this battery, we are so sure you will like it that we don't expect many returns!

[Audiophile]

While expensive, if it was legit I wouldn't hesitate getting one.

[Vishus_1]

This is truely amazing if it is legit. I have not heard anything about this. I am curious how long it can sit unused without fully discharging. I am also curious if you could hook up a float charger to maintain it.

[jriva]

"then left the headlights on and radio blaring for 15 minutes, and then cranked again, and the car cranked same as before!"

Thats on a BMW too, which I'm sure requires much more power than the Elise.

I wish i could change the name of the thread to include the 4.5 lbs.

[Ian]

Alright, who's gonna try one. It seems like they have a fairly generous return policy. Anyone?

[Ol'Racer]

Originally Posted by jriva

My friend was letting me know his buddy was developing a new battery, that weighs 4.5 lbs.

I noticed that there's a PO Box in S. Pasadena. (Von's lot?)

Anyway, I could meet someone there to check out the battery and give an opinion.

PM me and I can meet with the principals.

Anyone attending Cal Tech?

[thwang99]

Hi all,

If anyone's in the Los Angeles area, and wants to test out the battery in their Elise for a week or two (I'm sure the 3 pound version will work fine for the Elise!) let me know, as the Elise is a perfect candidate for the Voltphreaks 3 pound version, and we are trying to find more cars that the 3 pound version will work for!

- Tony (Voltphreaks.com, based in Pasadena/LA!)

[Audiophile]

Someone please take him up on that, I am VERY interested!

[MattG]

I'd rank this one as highly plausible; following the development of the Tesla Roadster has taught me how much more efficient lithium-ion batteries are than lead acid and thus the smaller size. The Wikipedia entry for this battery type helps validate the safety claims.

Ok you thousands of LA area Elise owners, somebody please take up Tony on this offer and let us know how the battery performs!

[MattG]

Tony, can traditional battery chargers and conditioners be used with these batteries?

[jriva]

My friend has gone and seen this battery in person, and watched it turn over many times. He says that his buddy just isn't waiting for the auto industry to catch up and he's proceeding with the new batteries ahead of them. This new technology is supposedly the battery tech of the near future, but auto manufacturers just haven't made the switch.

from wikipedia.

The lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4) battery is a type of rechargeable battery based on the original lithium ion chemistry, created by the use of LiFePO4 as a cathode material. It is not yet widely in use.

LiFePO4 cells have higher discharge current, do not explode under extreme conditions and weigh less, but have lower voltage and energy density than normal Li-ion cells. Because this type of battery is not widely in production, little performance information is available. Pihsiang Energy Technology Co. LiFePO4 batteries (using phosphate material from Phostech Lithium) have already begun shipping in some scooters and electric bicycles. Lithium Technology Corp. announced in May 2007 the immediate availability of cells large enough for use in hybrid cars, claiming they are "the largest cells of their kind in the world," and that a Toyota Prius powered by their batteries obtained 125+ MPG.[1]

Advantages and disadvantages

Being a lithium-ion-derived chemistry, the LiFePO4 chemistry shares many of the advantages and disadvantages of lithium ion chemistry. Key differences are safety and current rating. Cost is claimed to be a major difference, but that cannot be verified until the cells are more widely accepted.

Safety

LiFePO4 is an intrinsically safer cathode material than LiCoO2. The Fe-P-O bond is stronger than the Co-O bond so that when abused, (short-circuited, overheated, etc.) the oxygen atoms are much harder to remove. This stabilization of the redox energies also helps fast ion migration. Only under extreme heating (generally over 800 °C) does breakdown occur, which prevents the thermal runaway that LiCoO2 is prone to.

As lithium migrates out of the cathode in a LiCoO2 cell, the CoO2 undergoes non-linear expansion, which affects the structural integrity of the cell. The fully lithiated and unlithiated states of LiFePO4 are structurally similar, which means that LiFePO4 cells are more structurally stable than LiCoO2 cells.

No lithium remains in the cathode of a fully charged LiFePO4 cell — in a LiCoO2 cell, approximately 50% remains in the cathode. LiFePO4 is highly resilient during oxygen loss, which typically results in an exothermic reaction in other lithium cells.[3]

[MattG]

I see no reason why the auto industry will adopt this technology, it's too expensive and the average consumer won't see any benefit from it. The one exception would be in electric car applications. That said, there'll be plenty of interest in the automotive aftermarket where it'll compete against Braille, Optima, etc.

(note, I'm going to edit the thread title per your post #4)

[mike325ci]

like others, I am curious about:

1) Can a battery tender/conditioner/charger be hooked up to this battery while car is stored?

and in addition:
2) I am ignorant about battery technology, but this battery does not have a "memory" problem? I know even Li-Ion (like the one in my laptop) doesn't have a memory problem, per se, but it is recommended that it be fully discharged and then recharged a few times to get the maximum capacity out of them. Does this battery have the same issue/feature? b/c if so, I don't know how to fully discharge a car battery and recharge without having a special battery tender/conditioner/recharger that has this ability (I don't know of any).

The price point is pretty high, but not unreasonable. I would like to try this out on my cars. Seems like my E46 can take the 4.5lb version, and the Exige should be fine with the 3lb version. The Celica could definitely use one of these, it'll clear a lot of space in that cramped engine bay and take off weight from the front of an already front-heavy overweight car...

I am watching this thread/topic with great interest...

[Mark16q]

pm sent...

[peahee]

will it also power a BIG ARSS stereo? or a BIG ARSS turbo kit? Looks cool and yes, very light weight, I think I like it. Is that a carbon fiber front plate?

[xtn]

Tony,

I'm in Texas, but am willing to test out one of your batteries in my Exige.

The 3-pounder may not be enough. We all have 11.5:1 compression. We also seem to have an alarm system that is not the most battery friendly in the world.

Would like more details on the charger you offer, charging procedure, and expected charge lifetime under parked (with alarm on) conditions.

Thanks,
xtn

[TimMullen]

Originally Posted by xtn

Would like more details on the charger you offer, charging procedure, and expected charge lifetime under parked (with alarm on) conditions.

To add some details to this, the alarm is supposed to be pulling 15 ma of current when activated (10 ma when off). This is in addition to the regular "dark current" used by the ECU and the radio...

[Stephen]

Here is the 3lb one:

https://s.p10.hostingprod.com/@www.v...dfc395a01a89c6

Send me one and I will test it for a week in my Exige S. If it works as advertised, I will buy it.

Stephen

[qball]

Capacity is a bit on the low side 12Ah... which is a tad short of the smallest Odyssey PC545 battery.

But it may just work!

[Stephen]

They don't mention anything about recharging it; do they? Maybe that is the catch. Maybe you can't just put it in your car and have it charge with your stock charging system???