Hass Turbo Experience Log

[scottyb]

Originally Posted by TrackRat5

I'm sure you researched supercharging vs. turbo. Why turbo? I want to modify my Exige as well.

I was in the SC camp for a long time, but I am not happy with any of the SC options as of yet. I visited Jay's shop and did a lot of research, so I changed my opinion and went for the Turbo. The main reasons were: Better placement options in the Elise Engine Bay, Low Boost with little to no lag, Superior kit, and Superior Shop.

[scottyb]

Originally Posted by saudio

What would 2 additional gauges be for? I think any gauges that are not necessary would just clutter the cockpit. The console as is looks great, but can you see it OK without taking your eyes off the road for too long?

I like the placement of the Gauges on the shelf for the reason of easy sight line while driving. I would put a Volt meter and a performance gauge in the vertical pod. The horizontal pod would have Boost, Oil Pres/Temp, Aquamist Gauge.

[scottyb]

Well I stopped by Hass today. Of course I diverted him from working for about an hour. Keely wasn’t too happy about it. Sorry Guys! Anyway I dropped off my Stock exhaust & CAT so Jay could configure a Cat Bypass tube and to test the performance of the stock CAT.

My Arquay SS twin Tip exhaust is hooked up to my Sport CAT and to Jays Turbo Manifold. It looks awesome! I should have taken pictures, but I was too lazy. I’ll snap some pictures later. The ECU shelf is made and the E-Manage is sitting above my Odyssey Battery. Everything looks real clean and will fit under the stock Battery cover. Jay’s still working on my Gauge Pod. We both agree that placing the gauges on the shelf is more visible than vertically in front of the shifter. The gauges we decided on were Boost, Oil Temp, & the Aquamist Gauge. I’m going to have the Pod finished with a layering of Brushed Aluminum, so it should match the interior well.

Jay’s finishing up Xcusme’s car which is being delivered today and Fast’s Elise too. We should be at the dyno sometime next week. So really what is left for my Elise is finishing up the gauges, placement of the Variable Boost Control Button, and Tuning the ECU.

[scottyb]

Originally Posted by Shiftlock

What does the Aquamist gauge show, flluid level? If that's the case, wouldn't a low fluid light be sufficient and much simpler?

It does more than that and has Bling Effect, but I don't recall all that it does at this time.

[JayHass]

Originally Posted by Shiftlock

What does the Aquamist gauge show, flluid level? If that's the case, wouldn't a low fluid light be sufficient and much simpler?

This is the DDS2 which is the previous unit. The DDS3 is much much more sexy but does the same basic thing.

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/cp/806-425/806-425.html

It shows tank level, and has an inline turbine that shows how much water is actually flowing through the jet in CC/min so you not only know if water is not flowing but you can monitor if there is limited flow for some reason.

It's a really nice unit and worth the cost IMHO.

Scott, as always good to see you. We'll have your baby back in your hands soon enough. Hope you enjoyed meeting the neighbors over at Metal Morphous, they have some pretty trick stuff going on.

This is where we are sending the gauge pod for real aluminum coatings on the plastic bezel. These guys do some really trick stuff. I'm actually talking with them right now about what it would take to turn the Elise body into a real stainless steel or aluminum finish. They do it for the Cobra Replicas.

http://www.metal-morphous.com

[scottyb]

The Metal Morphous stuff is incredible. Jay I was thinking that someone could take their center console and HVAC surrounds and coat them with Brushed Aluminum. That would look awesome. Too bad I already covered mine with Leather. You guys should really check this stuff out.

[scottyb]

Originally Posted by Stan

Hey that is on my list. There are some pricey special paints out that look just like real aluminum or whatever. What is their process?

They actually apply a real metal coating, it's not paint. I didn't get to find out how they do it, but saw some sample pieces. Right now the owner is working on applying an aluminum coating to an ERA fiberglass cobra body.

[JayHass]

Originally Posted by Andrikos

"What is their process?"

It looks like some kind of a CVD (Chemical Vapor Deposition) LP, PE, or Atmospheric.

I have no idea what you said but for some reason it seems to sound familiar with what they were telling me.

Something about how they control the heat in such a exact way that the metal is molten when airborn and the first few mils actually combine and bond with the plastic/fiberglass whatever surface (They determine the proper temperature for the suface being applied too) and then the following layers just lay like real metal...because it is. They can make a PVC pipe look like a copper pipe and I guarantee you will not tell the difference until you pick it up - it will even tarnish, you simply can not tell the difference between "real" metal and "coated" surfaces. The whole process is about 6 mils thick I was told.

Tarnished copper Elise anyone?

The center console sounds like an interesting idea, but so does a metal body Elise LOL "MARTY, QUICK, ACTIVATE THE FLUX CAPACITOR!"

[scottyb]

Stopped by to visit the shop today. Saw 1FAST's car and mine. Hopefully they will be going to the Dyno's soon. Of course we're now expecting another snow storm tonight.

I snapped some pictures and then decided to give Jay some more work. (I've obviously gone too long with out a Mod) I'm going to have Jay powder coat my stock Rims Black to match my newly powder coated rear diffuser. You can see how well the Coated intercooler matches the OEM look

We're also still waiting on getting my new Gauge cluster, and engine covers to the Metal shop to coat them with brushed alluminum. Also the gages will all have black faces. The Moroso Oil PAN still needs to be installed and the e-Manage unit needs to be programmed. My exhaust came out perfect too!

[JayHass]

I'm actually sitting in your car right now tuning it on the laptop and had this window open via wireless and decided to see what's new. LOL

[JayHass]

Originally Posted by ronin

Hey Scotty have you thought about mounting your air filter in a little cooler spot, it looks a little warm there? Are the intercooler fans always on with engine on?

Creating a shield from radiant heat from the manifold...other than that, there is some cool air that comes up from the NACA duct to where the filter sits. Looking from the top is a bit misleading as the filter is down by the bottom of the engine.

Anyhow, measured inlet temps from the MAF sensor about 4" from the TB show inlet temps are fine and that's the real concern for us...as long as it meets those goals it passed our sniffer test. Now if someone wants to make a custom something or other to play around, more power to them...it's simply too hard to make custom pieces like that from a kit perspective and keep the price reasonable.

As with everything...there is room to tweak and play if you so choose.

[JayHass]

Originally Posted by Stan

Yeah..and other stuff such as the reponse going into and coming out of the throttle. You can log the Elise TPS by tapping into the green wire with the yellow stripe at the throttle body. It's loggable at the 0-5volt inputs of your device.

Okay based on this, I went into the log files for the Greddy on a random 6psi run.

1st gear (Which has great lag time due to less load than other gears.)

7.76 seconds into it, 22% throttle, -1.7psi boost, 3945rpm
7.96 seconds into it, 75% throttle, .7psi boost, 4483rpm
8.16 seconds into it, 98% throttle, 3.1psi boost, 5025rpm
8.36 seconds into it, 99% throttle, 5.8psi boost, 5706rpm

2nd gear shift

10.28 seconds into it 11% throttle, -8.1psi boost, 6033rpm
10.78 seconds into it 96% throttle, 5.6 psi boost, 6117rpm.

Basically, looking at the graph it's taking me 1/2 second to depress the throttle fully as the TPS line from 10.28 seconds to 10.78 seconds goes up like / and then flattens at 100% from there and by the time the throttle is down, the boost is there. Step on the gas, by the time it's at the floor you have boost. That's the best way I can describe it.

[Enigma]

Originally Posted by JayHass

7.96 seconds into it, 75% throttle, .7psi boost, 4483rpm
8.16 seconds into it, 98% throttle, 3.1psi boost, 5025rpm
8.36 seconds into it, 99% throttle, 5.8psi boost, 5706rpm

Based on this is looks like about 0.3 - 0.4 s of lag time. Thats much better than most of the turbo cars I have driven. The most telling part is the 2psi gain from 8.16 to 8.36 after wot.

It looks like it would be a nice roadcourse car. At most tracks the car will never fall below 5500rpm and on those occarions its for short, sharp turns where the turbins is unlikely to spin all the way down. How does the heatsoak / durability look for roadcourse use?

Based on the earlier dynos thought I don't think this would work well for autoX. In those cases a lot of time is spend 4-5k rpm with quick stabs of the throttle. The dyno doesn't show good power under 5k, combine this with the lag above and its doubtfull this would outperform a less powerfull but better midrang engine.

However, since we don't have an autoX place to play in with a turbo or SC its moot.

[JayHass]

Originally Posted by Eyelise

Enigma, this is what I was trying to convey earlier. The lag is minimal but it doesn't really spool up until 4500rpm+. If we could get it to spool up quicker say with a 3" thru exhaust it might work as well for autocross and roadcourse.

"It looks like it would be a nice roadcourse car. At most tracks the car will never fall below 5500rpm and on those occarions its for short, sharp turns where the turbins is unlikely to spin all the way down."

There are turbo options that will limit max hp and give some more down low power...but there are caveats here.

If we did go with the smaller turbine wheel, turbine housing and compressor - ala what was known as the GT28R (Now I think it's called the GT2554 or something like that.) I would sincerely recommend two things. 1. Low compression so we don't have to worry about the restricted exhaust and reversion that will likely ensue. (All turbo cars have high exhaust manifold pressure but with a high comp engine you try and minimize that as much as possible to avoid exhaust gas reverting back into the combustion process causing combustion temps and exhaust valve temps to increase which leads to bad joo joo with high compression.) 2. Limit boost to 5-6psi and be happy with 200-210whp with a blower like torque curve. (See some of our 1ZZFE dyno's with the GT28R...flat torque from 2200rpm to 7000rpm.)

But I can't stress enough guys, this engine was not designed to make big numbers below 4K rpm with a blower, turbo, nitrous whatever. Even when you shove a lot of boost at it in low rpm it doesn't become this torque beast V8 killer. It helps but the engine just feels "off".

Stan, I wouldn't give up on the stock car so fast. Where I think you will see a large gap is above 60 mph where the car starts to run out of hp and then after 100mph it will be a slaughter. But I'm willing to bet the stock car hangs "okay" to 60mph. Better than you think. (I know, I'm my own worst salesman...LOL) Besides with the extra 400 lbs of subwoofers and toys he's got, you already have the advantage.

[JayHass]

Originally Posted by scottyb

Jay,

any word on when we're going to the Dyno?

Well, thanks to that fresh 6 inches of snow we are pretty much getting cabin fever and even SkyKings car that was supposed to be picked up yesterday is on hold till Tuesday.

What we have been doing in the mean time since we can't even road test the car is getting all the gauges wired up and all the cables run.

I do have to say I think you are the only one in the US that has a 2500lb Elise. Two big amps, subwoofers, leather covered interior panels, back up sensors, miles of cabling...what no DVD player popping out of the dash yet?

[scottyb]

Originally Posted by Eyelise

Jay would a 3" exhaust on the GT28RS improve the low end or is the restriction in the manifold? Sounds like you feel the low end is about as good as it will get. Too bad I was really hoping to get more below 4500rpm.

It will be interesting to see what the torque curve looks like with a blower making 280hp on the top end. I'm willing to give a little on the top end but I don't want 1ZZFE numbers.

From my discussions with Jay, I think he believes the restriction is the stock CAT and exhaust set up. We will find out when 1FAST's car is dynoed because he has the 3" exhaust set up. (Oh by the way I think Jay is in Bermuda for a week's vacation)

[Lotus F1]

Thanks guys for the thoughts... Soon I will share the truth of the events, you wont believe.

I did go with the 3" catless exhaust. Jay made it with a high flowing straight as possible design. He says it sounds like a Turbo Hayabusa or big bore sports bike I am curious if the sound will give me the goosebumps or just mostly headaches lol. Will definitely post the dyno for all of you to see.

Me want Me want!

[JayHass]

Originally Posted by Eyelise

You've had my simpathy for some time now. It's about time.

On a different note, did you go cat delete as well as 3 "? I can't wait to see the dyno, I hope you share it with us. I will be interested to see just how loud your set-up is as well.

Agreed on all parts.

It's catless and 3" and yes it will help all the way around. The best exhaust for a turbocharger is no exhaust...compromise from there.

As for the 1ZZFE numbers - I'll take you for a ride in my MRS, you might want to do a swap afterwards.

All jokes aside, the 1Z with boost is so linear it's silly. Great response from 2500-7400rpm (or 7000rpm with stock rev limit)

[JayHass]

Originally Posted by gotapex

Sounds great! Is the downpipe 3" as well then?

No. Radius is too tight to get 3" off the turbo. The good news is with the wastegate merge you only have about 8" of 2.5" pipe. For these power levels I don't think it's hurting that bad with the test pipe and 3" afterwards.

[scottyb]

Well I spoke with the Lovely Keely today and got some great news!

My Stock Rims (Not Touring Rims for Tim's Sake) will be going to the powder coater for $100/wheel. The gauge pod will be coated with brushed aluminum probably tomorrow and we are hoping to get the car to the Dyno on Fri. If all goes well, I will be getting my baby back on Mon the 13th. That should give me plenty of time to make sure all is well for the March 27th Lime Rock event!