Elise brakes, pads, using, and maintenance

[Arno]

In case other people are looking to try out different pads on the Elise for road racing or perhaps auto-X.

As the Elise/Exige uses REAR pads from a Nissan Skyline GTR at the front and the REAR pads from a Dodge Viper at the rear I simply looked them up..

DODGE VIPER 2002-92 FRONT FMSI D592 REAR FMSI D491

NISSAN SKYLINE GTR 1995-89 FRONT FMSI D639 REAR FMSI D174

So the Elise becomes:

ELISE FRONT FMSI D174/109 REAR FMSI D491

The FMSI 'D109' might be possible at the front too. Slightly thicker pad (16.5mm vs. 14.1), but same backing plate shape.

These numbers should make it possible to cross-reference with just about any brake pad manufacturer you want.

Bye, Arno.

[Arno]

Originally posted by meat
Mintex 1166's on my Exige (Motorsport Brake Package). My rear rotors are the Fed Elise front rotors, I believe.

Unlikely unless you have a very bizarre Exige..

PCD is different between S1/Exige and S2/Fed, so rotors would not fit without machining the holes.

Also the S1 discs have little or no offset on the center 'hat', while the S2 and Federal ones do, so you'd also need to run S2 hub carriers and bearings...

Unless you meant to write *pads* and not rotors.. Then that's correct yes. The motorsport brake kit moves the stock front caliphers to the back (loses the handbrake) and puts bigger 4-pot caliphers on the front.

Bye, Arno.

[Arno]

Originally posted by DCNSX
Arno- how long is does it take to change pads on the Elise? I believe I will change pads for track events and look forward to seeing more posts on which pads are the best for track use.

As tony wrote, the fronts are very simple as they use a fixed calipher. So you just tap out the retaining pins and pull the pads from the top.

Push back the pistons and put in new ones.

The rear ones are little more work, but still not very much. You also need to remove a retaining pin, after which you can remove the front pad by tapping it downwards/sideways.

To remove the other pad you can either remove the brake disc (one small screw) or unbolt 1 side of the calipher and 'flip' it up.

The piston, however, can not be pushed back like on the front ones. These caliphers have the handbrake mechanism combined, so you need to push *and* turn the piston clockwise to 'screw' it back into the calipher housing.

It's not a big job, but a little more involved than the fronts.

Also, does the Fed Elise still have the easily-accessible brake bleeder valves? I plan on getting "speed-bleeders" right away.

Should be no different. I use a Motive powerbleeder and that work fine for me.

The fed-Elise probably has the same 'issue' with the front caliphers though.

The inside piston feeds the outside one through a pipe at the bottom. If air is in the system (and this is the only problem.. no issue with just flushing brakefluid to replace it) then you can not 'flush' the air out, because it gets trapped in the inside piston.

To clear it you have to unbolt the calipher, hold it upside-down, bleed (pushing the bubbles to the outside piston as the pipe is now at the top), turn it 'right side up' again and finish bleeding.

The 'off the shelf' AP-racing caliphers have twin bleed nipples for this purpose.. One for the outside and one for the inside piston. But the Lotus/AP-Racing version only has 1..

Bye, Arno.

[Arno]

Originally posted by Ara
$350 per set???????

Not that expensive actually for all 4 wheels. And we're pretty much talking race-pads here, not just road pads.

If you go to a very good pad like the compound 97 made by Performance Friction in the US then you'll pay even more.

Oh... And expect a full set of regular pads from Lotus to fall in about the same price category. Around $250 to $300 for all 4 wheels.

If you do shop around for alternative pads you may need to get the friction material shaved down a little to fit between the disc and the calipher.

Total thickness for the front should be 14.3mm and rear 11.6mm (rears start out pretty thin when new..). There is some room to play (esp. at the back), but you'll have to find out in practice how much really.

Most performance shops can/will shave brake pads for you for a modest fee.

Bye, Arno.

[Arno]

Originally posted by Robert Puertas
Hey Arno, dealer retail for a full set of pads for the Fed Elise is $400.

Yup.. That doesn't surprise me.. And this is probably just the 'regular' pads. Lotus also sell 'motorsport' pads, but these are actually PAGID's.

We'll be able to do the Performance Friction Pads for a bit less, and some good high performance street pads for half that.

Ah.. I talked to a PFC dealer and they could already deliver me pads with the right backing-plate shapes. No problem there.

There were just 2 issues. The first was that the pads were too thick for the Elise. But that's easily fixed by getting them shaved.

A bigger issue was that the the rear pads (from the Dodge Viper) were only available as 'race ready' at something like $250 a set... That was a bit too much..

Fronts were 'regular' and around $90 or so (which is quite acceptable)

I'm now using SBS ProTrack pads (carbon-ceramic). Just put them on with new 2-piece brake rotors (alu center piece). Seem to be working OK..

Trackday/roadrace coming up thursday, so I'll see how they hold up under stress. Fingers crossed it won't rain...

Bye, Arno.

[Arno]

Stock pads are actually not that bad on track.

The biggest issue most people have with them is that they don't have that much 'bite' in them (esp. with rain when water gets onto the discs and pads)

Perhaps this issue will be less on the Fed-Elise and the 111R as they have brake boosters, unlike the older Elises which are non-assisted.

Brake fade and such are not very common on the Elise to start with, as the low weight of the car and the relatively big brake rotors means that brake temperatures remain within acceptable limits.

Even the motorsport elises didn't run with brake-ducts, because when they tried it actually over-cooled the brakes, which you really don't want if you run full-on race pads that really need some heat in the system to start working properly

Bedding in is still needed on new cars. The initial running-in period is great to also slowly let the pads get a good contact with the rotors.

Once that's done do about 3 to 4 medium brake actions from around 60mph to 20mph (do not come to a stop!). Make sure there's not more than 30 seconds or so between each brake application.

This gets everything up to temperature. Now do another 4 *hard* (very close to lock-up/ABS activation) brake applications from around 70/80 mph to 10 mph (again.. do *not* come to a complete stop) to fully bed in the brakes and heat-cycle the pads.

Then drive the car gently and let the brakes cool down. Do not apply the hand-brake or keep your foot on the brakes at a traffic light during this time.

Repeating this process once in a while also 'refreshes' the pads (burns off any deposits and breaks glazing) and helps to keep the car brake properly.

The brakes on these cars are meant to be (ab)'used' hard and if they are not put through their paces regularly they don't work as well.

Bye, Arno.