2 Amazing 2nd Gen Volts From The Desk Of The Maximum One, Audi Disses Volt

[the1sen]

Note the impenetrable design prowess and authentic throwback to previous models. This model is close to production according to reliable sources close to the situation!




This second design is just out of this world amazing. Completely other-worldly.





And Audi, of all companies, was recently outspoken about the Volt...

"Nobody will pay a $15,000 premium for a car competing with a Corolla," said Audi of America President Johan de Nysschen. "There are not enough idiots who will buy it." Really? Put your money where your mouth is, Johan.

De Nysschen was speaking to MSN Autos about his frustration things were swinging in the favor of gasoline/electric hybrids over clean diesel technology. He believes consumers have been "hoodwinked" into thinking hybrids are the only answer to eco-friendly cars.

He described the Chevy Volt as "A car for idiots," before adding sarcastically, "They're for the intellectual elite who want to show what enlightened souls they are."

De Nysscen argues that clean diesel could have an immediate impact on national carbon emissions and the overall amount of fuel used, where, in contrast, Hybrids and electrics won't have a demonstrable impact on either for many years to come.

So, Mr. de Nysschen, why can't American consumers buy an A4 with a turbo-diesel and a manual transmission?"

[shay2nak]

I agree with some of the stuff he says.

I thought we can't buy diesels because of gov't restrictions. You can't buy a new one in Cali. It's has to be used with no less than 7500 miles. Why? that is stupid.

[Seb]

That's because you live in California.

[Uncle Sam]

Those aren't Volts. The first is obviously some one-off Ferrari F40, look at the wing and side intakes. The second is some kind of Spanish pickup truck judging by the name. This is an auto enthusiast forum, posters should endeavor to meet a higher level of accuracy so as not to waste our time. I am now going back to designing a prototype tilting front clam (to ease fuse access). This more accurately represents the refined engineering of interest to Lotustalk members.

[shay2nak]

Originally Posted by Seb

That's because you live in California.

the most idiotic state in the republic, but the most beautiful.

[the1sen]

You guys are all funny.. the point of this post was to say that the Audi dude is partially correct, and that the Volt folks are partially correct.

The thing that poses the biggest problem for me is exactly what Ara said - WHY CAN WE NOT GET A CLEAN DIESEL NOW?

Diesel is proven, reliable, efficient, and a technology that is here today. On the other side, the Volt is great because it endeavors to pursue new tech in uncharted waters, but clearly it's going to be prohibitively expensive for a while after Maximum Putz' "miscalculation" in price.

I want to know why GM, and Ford and Japanese car makers who sell efficient Diesel equipped vehicles in other parts of the world don't offer the same thing here.

I basically want to know why I can't get 700+ miles per tank when existing technology is able to make that happen NOW while we wait for the cost of hydrogen and electric vehicles and battery technology to drop in cost.

It's sickening to me that the US has been forced into excessive fuel use... It sickens me more that domestic car makers have shoved SUV's down society's throat over a crazed FASHION STATEMENT.

Responsibility is inescapable? Then please tell me WHY I can't get a vehicle suitable for our market in every way that also gets killer mileage. I sincerely want to know.

Our cash flows out of us like diarrhea from the buffalo.

[...m...]

Originally Posted by the1sen

I want to know why GM, and Ford and Japanese car makers who sell efficient Diesel equipped vehicles in other parts of the world don't offer the same thing here.

...specifically, because particulate emissions preclude their sale from the largest US markets (the west coast, midwest, and northeast) and the balance of US markets are too culturally biased against fuel-efficient technologies to make their introduction and marketing economically viable...

...southern california regulated motor vehicles first because its population density and weather conditions exacerbate the problem - it's no exaggeration that before particulate regulations the outdoor air was unsafe to breathe up to one-third of the year...one need spend only one summer in the central valley with household windows open to natural ventilation, daily cleaning the thin layer of soot coating everything within, to understand the peril to one's lungs; many people in the region still die from environmentally-affected respiratory illnesses every year, primarily the old and infirm, but it's a very real problem...

...other affected regions in the midwest and northeast have followed suit because their population density and heavy industry pose similar problems, but by contrast europe doesn't suffer the same issues because their automobile usage has never been dense enough to substantially contribute to similar smog problems in recent times...

Originally Posted by the1sen

I basically want to know why I can't get 700+ miles per tank when existing technology is able to make that happen NOW while we wait for the cost of hydrogen and electric vehicles and battery technology to drop in cost.

Responsibility is inescapable? Then please tell me WHY I can't get a vehicle suitable for our market in every way that also gets killer mileage. I sincerely want to know.

...because the vehicle you're looking for isn't suitable to our market, really...that's not to say that small efficient diesels haven't been introduced by some manufacturers to serve the niche US market, for example volkswagen TDIs have been available domestically for decades, but it remains a niche market with very low sales, so there's not room for many players...

...unfortunately, being such a tiny niche market, federal diesel fuel and associated motor oils remain optimised for the commercial trucking industry rather than passenger cars, which makes maintenance of small efficient diesel engine technologies problematic in the 'states...it's not quite a chicken-and-egg scenario, as there truly isn't sufficient demand for diesel passenger cars to justify changing the formulations thusly, but it remains an obstacle to their adoption nonetheless...

...in short, the efficient diesels are out there, but like anything worthwhile you'll have to work to get one and continue working to keep driving it...

[erics75218]

Originally Posted by Uncle Sam

Those aren't Volts. The first is obviously some one-off Ferrari F40, look at the wing and side intakes. The second is some kind of Spanish pickup truck judging by the name. This is an auto enthusiast forum, posters should endeavor to meet a higher level of accuracy so as not to waste our time. I am now going back to designing a prototype tilting front clam (to ease fuse access). This more accurately represents the refined engineering of interest to Lotustalk members.

OMG..i've been slain.....HAHAHHAAH good one!!!!!


and M...great response. I always wonder about this...so it sounds like we don't have them here because we, as a country, are ill informed and lazy. :-) What are the actual facts concerning say, a clean diesel version of a car sold in Europe, and an equal Gas version of that same car here in terms of enviro impact?

[...m...]

Originally Posted by erics75218

What are the actual facts concerning say, a clean diesel version of a car sold in Europe, and an equal Gas version of that same car here in terms of enviro impact?

...i'm far from expert, as the last time i extensively researched the subject was about ten years ago, in frustration at trying to buy a TDI in the california market...

...what i can say is that it's a complicated answer because we're looking at two completely different types of environmental impact, particulate emissions versus greenhouse emissions...while modern clean diesels have a dramatically worse impact in terms of smog-generating particulates and acid-rain sulphur compounds, particularly with less-refined north american fuels, their efficiency also translates into much lower greenhouse gases by comparison to modern gasoline motors...

...so depending upon where in the US you live - would you rather choke, starve, or bake?..most people choose bake...

[TimMullen]

One other reason for the lack of diesels - a lack of diesels fuel at local gas stations. Yes, there are some around, but I have seen a diesel fuel pump on many a year (out side of interstate truck stops out in the boonies). None of my local gas stations sell diesel, therefore, buying a diesel isn't even a consideration for me...

Kind of a chicken and egg thing...

[the1sen]

Well, I guess it follows the logic of "why write legislation that would put power into the public hands, or save a few bucks?"

Anyone know the numbers on the new TDI Golf that's coming? I've never owned a diesel... is there more upkeep on the engine than a gasoline model? When I was in the service, all our vehicles were diesel, they were loud, torquey as all hell, and they broke all the time... Then again they were 1966 Deuces and 1994 Hum V's.

I think I would prefer being stuck in an elevator for 41 hours with diarrhea.

[fitfan]

Originally Posted by the1sen

I basically want to know why I can't get 700+ miles per tank when existing technology is able to make that happen NOW while we wait for the cost of hydrogen and electric vehicles and battery technology to drop in cost..

what technology would that be? the real energy conversion even for the best plug in series electric / start stop concepts - would still be around 100mpg for a real car. double that for a pure electric only, but sacrafice the range issue. but fair city car mpg equiv. yes. (lugging around batieries instead of range extender engine/gen. - ironicaly, and getting a bit off topic... this later case is far more effeciant since they can be used as pure elec. city cars and have the same equiv. 200mpg, but then allow for real range travel use. so the mpg # of something like the upcoming fisker, are far greater "usable" #'s - that is, i just drove over 200 miles yesterday, picking up clients at airport and traveling to meetings - can't do that in a tesla, but would in a kharma at 80mpg equiv. and then would get the (tesla like) 200mpg equiv driving a kharma to lunch. gym, etc...)

Originally Posted by the1sen

It's sickening to me that the US has been forced into excessive fuel use... It sickens me more that domestic car makers have shoved SUV's down society's throat over a crazed FASHION STATEMENT

what sickens me, is not that automakers embarked on a sales campaign of their most profitable products... but that the general public has bought into the hype?!?! sitting at a stop light makes me think about pt barnums famous quote!

a simple mid sized euro wagon fits the bill for many big suv owners. why thoose didn't sell like hot cakes for the past 15 years is something i will never understand... i bought plenty of them myself.

Originally Posted by the1sen

Responsibility is inescapable? Then please tell me WHY I can't get a vehicle suitable for our market in every way that also gets killer mileage. I sincerely want to know.

market demand... just not much real demand. there is allways a compromise - americans have a brain fart over size vs cost (its bigger, it must be worth more, -or- its small, therefor its not luxury) us market is very wierd and i totaly agree with you, i don't get it at all... there are a few exceptions... but why in the world i can't get a BMW 1 series desiel wagon pisses me off to no end!

US market seems to me to be very habit based, and not driven by new better different product / needs and change. personally i am all for very heavy state gas taxes IF those taxes went straight to public transportation development.

also - be careful about euro MPG, it is not a 1:1 us mpg translation, something like 55 mpg euro is like 38 US (for a variety of reason, vloumn and testing methods)

also don't believe twisted MPG estimate of plug in electrics / hybrids. some manf. (like GM) are using shady math to get stupid high numbers that are not a good equivilant #. i think tesla uses fairly realistic conversion # and gives somethng like the 200mpg equivlent energy. of course thats a moving target based on petrol vs. electricity cost. th efficeny part of the math is pretty much fixed.

[...m...]

Originally Posted by the1sen

Anyone know the numbers on the new TDI Golf that's coming?

...i don't know about the newest models, but the 2000 TDI beetle got 55 miles per gallon stock, and was a dead-simple biodiesel conversion to boot - modern diesel passenger cars are amazingly clean and reliable compared to the first wave of diesel engines from the late seventies, worlds apart...

[the1sen]

Dang - that's nifty. Something like that would be perfect for the wife... We typically get a new car for her every 3-4 years, so I hope there is a diesel alternative when that time comes.

[fitfan]

the VW desiels are great - expect the golf #'s to match the jetta. so ~30/40mpg.
people seem to have not much trouble hitting 50mpg hgwy, out performs the prius all day long too! but not sure if the 2010 cars will be start/stop??

pretty sure the golf TDI hits us for 2010 model year, maybe a little later than the gas models, by spring at the latest i heard?? not really sure though - your right 1sen - it will be spiffy!!

[...m...]

Originally Posted by the1sen

We typically get a new car for her every 3-4 years, so I hope there is a diesel alternative when that time comes.

...it must feel nice to know that you're keeping the lotus...i really want to say the same thing about my turbobeetle, but i'm not entirely convinced that its build quality is sustainable...

[the1sen]

Originally Posted by ...m...

...it must feel nice to know that you're keeping the lotus...i really want to say the same thing about my turbobeetle, but i'm not entirely convinced that its build quality is sustainable...

Yeah, she is about to pass 20,000 this tank of gas, and I am VERY happy with it. Best car I have ever owned.

For all its quirks, the Lotus is better built than a boatload of all these other cars, and frankly, ages more gracefully than any of them. The design is timeless and it is never tiresome. I find a new angle to appreciate every few days. I look forward to going out to the garage without fail.

I just can't say that about normal, ordinary cars. If larger manufacturers could understand this feeling of appreciation for really incredible design, maybe they would come up with more innovative designs which would have longer design life instead of coming up with Azteks or reviving monstrosities from the past every 3-4 years.

There's no design story behind any large manufacturers vehicles. And the ones that DO have stories are kind of ghetto, or disappointing. Like the Volt...