C&D Lightning Lap: 22 cars; 4 categories. Setting: VIR. Elise SC featured!

[Bavarian Motorist]

Yeah, it's not really a good "stat" car. What I do expect is a redeeming review praising the car for its handling and fun factor in spite of poor numbers, and that didn't happen

[ivan1]

Is it a surprise to anyone that 048s are better than AD07s on the track?

That is predictable. To try to read anything more into that by comparing the SC lap time to the NA time they achieved 2 years ago is dubious at best....

1. Different driver/conditions 2 years ago ????

2. They clearly state for some reason they were having problems with gear selection....

3. The SC they tested did not have sport suspension.....the NA did

If you want your SC to be faster, of course put the stickier tires on it....but I think that Lotus is marketing the exige more as the track car, and the elise more as the street oriented car that can also do track days...In that case, many potential buyers (myself included) would prefer the AD07s for street use. I do prefer the sport suspension and other goodies in the sport pack, so I am glad they offer it the way they do.

should they offer a "track pack" for the SC with 048s and larger fronts? why not.....

[lotusforsale]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

Yeah, it's not really a good "stat" car. What I do expect is a redeeming review praising the car for its handling and fun factor in spite of poor numbers, and that didn't happen

In last year's Lightening Lap they used an Exige S, and optioned the way it was it was in the over $60K class.

At VIR the Exige S did 3:04.5, beating the Audi R8 and Porsche 911 Turbo, and finishing I believe 4th overall. On the section by secton review of the track, the Lotus got through more sections faster than any other car, but where it lost out it lost out big enough to push it back to 4th.

Same hp as the Elise SC, same suspension, but the Elise has lesser tires and doesn't have the downforce.

Of course there are other variables, such as driver and general car tune and setup, but that is a really big difference in lap times between the Elise SC and the 07 Exige S, which are essentially the same car.

[ivan1]

Originally Posted by lotusforsale

Same hp as the Elise SC, same suspension, but the Elise has lesser tires and doesn't have the downforce.

again, the SC they tested did NOT have sport suspension.....I would think suspension setup has some effect on lap times, no

[Bavarian Motorist]

I would say it's possible circumstances caused the difference in lap times, but 7.5 seconds is too large a gap to ignore...

They should offer in the sport pack the same that they've always offered, and if they're gonna offer less, they should charge less as well. Charging the same and then keeping the same tires as the standard car is ripping buyers off. I know you like the AD07s for your type of driving (Cory) and that's fine, but if for nothing else but MARKETING alone, Lotus should keep the A048s on the sport pack car.

Sport pack = performance oriented. Not performance oriented = standard car. To try to sell an Elise as a versatile, street-friendly car is a joke and an insult to Lotus buyers.

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by lotusforsale

In last year's Lightening Lap they used an Exige S, and optioned the way it was it was in the over $60K class.

At VIR the Exige S did 3:04.5, beating the Audi R8 and Porsche 911 Turbo, and finishing I believe 4th overall. On the section by secton review of the track, the Lotus got through more sections faster than any other car, but where it lost out it lost out big enough to push it back to 4th.

Same hp as the Elise SC, same suspension, but the Elise has lesser tires and doesn't have the downforce.

Of course there are other variables, such as driver and general car tune and setup, but that is a really big difference in lap times between the Elise SC and the 07 Exige S, which are essentially the same car.

Wow, that is a great time!


Did not the Exige S 240 switch to narrower front wheels, or are they the same as previous years? If so, what effect does this have on performance?

[ivan1]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

I would say it's possible circumstances caused the difference in lap times, but 7.5 seconds is too large a gap to ignore...

They should offer in the sport pack the same that they've always offered, and if they're gonna offer less, they should charge less as well. Charging the same and then keeping the same tires as the standard car is ripping buyers off. I know you like the AD07s for your type of driving (Cory) and that's fine, but if for nothing else but MARKETING alone, Lotus should keep the A048s on the sport pack car.

Sport pack = performance oriented. Not performance oriented = standard car. To try to sell an Elise as a versatile, street-friendly car is a joke and an insult to Lotus buyers.

so unless you want 048s you should not have the option of a sport suspension? I disagree. I do agree that they should still offer the 048s for those that want it...

my "type" of driving? them be fighting words next time I will take you for a ride in my car, so you can appreciate the handling with the sport suspension and AD07s.......

and I am not saying the 7.5 second difference is just due to different circumstances...tires were definitely one factor but that is no surprise...different suspension another factor which people seem to be ignoring...how much the other "circumstances" (eg driver, gear selection problems) contributed I dont know.....

[lotusforsale]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

Wow, that is a great time!


Did not the Exige S 240 switch to narrower front wheels, or are they the same as previous years? If so, what effect does this have on performance?

According to Lotus' current website, both the Exige S and S240 have the 195's in front, 225's in rear.

Of course, it's not like Lotus always gets the facts straight on their site. There site has the current Exige S with an intercooler, but there are a number of folks who've posted here say that's an error, that the IC is only on the S240.

I guess a current owner will chime in on the S240 tires.

Oh, and I stand corrected re the suspension. BUT most of the tests of these cars when they first came out didn't really see such a significant difference in lap times attributable to the LSS.

[ivan1]

Originally Posted by lotusforsale

BUT most of the tests of these cars when they first came out didn't really see such a significant difference in lap times attributable to the LSS.

then doesnt that contradict the whole argument here since LSS vs non-LSS would also mean 048s versus AD07s?????? (and even skinnier fronts back then on the non-LSS NA car c/w the SC)

[mrluky]

Boo. Hoo. I know how to have fun in my car. Do I need a reassurance by a magazine? No. Do I care if others who read this magazine think my car is ****? No. I hope it means they will leave me the **** alone, though. So I'm glad they put the car down. Less people will want one, and less will people will want to be my friend because I have one.

Tracks times should only matter to people who have track specific cars(what a thought, track times for track cars). I'd rather see a comparison of which car can go through a specific road the fastest and with the least tickets. The lesser realm of track cars are better than the 250k road going sports cars. Quit caring about how big people think your dick is and drive the thing(the car, not your dick).

The only thing better than killing two birds with one stone is if someone kills them for you.

If you really want the fastest car, go drive the Cobalt SS, and if you like it, trade your car in, and then buy a few hookers to fill the seats with the money you get in hand from the trade.

Just so you know: The enthusiast rating for the C SS is 6/10. Want to guess the rating for the Elise SC? Ya, 10/10. Who knew.

Originally Posted by Enthusiast Rating

This 10-star scale is absolute and price independent. It rates vehicles based on their appeal to an enthusiast who might think of how much pleasure would be derived from driving this vehicle on a Sunday afternoon on a variety of roads. That appeal would consist of performance, handling, the ability to thrill, technical sophistication, visceral sounds and sensations, styling beauty, driver engagement, and the creation of a positive and envious impression on passersby who see it.

[lotusforsale]

Originally Posted by ivan1

then doesnt that contradict the whole argument here since LSS vs non-LSS would also mean 048s versus AD07s?????? (and even skinnier fronts back then on the non-LSS NA car c/w the SC)

I guess I've lost track of the points being made.

The actual point is that Lotus is delivering a $50K plus car sports car, with improved power, which as delivered can't keep its N/A predecessor in sight, let alone outrun it. Couldn't keep up with a $24K tin can, either. When C & D put the test together, they went out to the market and picked the manufacturers products off the lot. People complained last year that they should've taken a non optioned Exige S so it would've been in the next lower bracket.

Someone else's point is well made...I guess many of the other cars' fans could complain that their car didn't have better rubber.

I think Lotus is cutting some corners on the cars with some easy savings, like tires, so they can continue to sell them here. The devalued dollar and very narrow niche market doesn't make it easy for them to keep the car priced to sell.

They probably feel that folks really concerned about track handling are going to swap out the wheels/tires, and upgrade the suspension anyway.

They may be betting that for the owner that doesn't track the car, but just does some back road blasting and pulling exit ramp g's, the narrower 07's are just fine.

Agree with the above point about keeping this in perspective. So what? But....what 'til it hits the Cobalt forums.

[fitfan]

Originally Posted by mopho

I don't know why some people feel the need to shoot the messenger (i.e. the magazine)

thats the problem - people take auto mags as gospel - they are not, they are crafted opinion, and rarely without some latent agenda involved. so that is why people do raise a few eyebrows at them.

vir grand is my favorite config. - its epic!

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by ivan1

my "type" of driving? them be fighting words next time I will take you for a ride in my car, so you can appreciate the handling with the sport suspension and AD07s.......

I will take you up on that...

Originally Posted by mrluky

Boo. Hoo. I know how to have fun in my car. Do I need a reassurance by a magazine? No. Do I care if others who read this magazine think my car is ****? No. I hope it means they will leave me the **** alone, though. So I'm glad they put the car down. Less people will want one, and less will people will want to be my friend because I have one.

Tracks times should only matter to people who have track specific cars(what a thought, track times for track cars). I'd rather see a comparison of which car can go through a specific road the fastest and with the least tickets. The lesser realm of track cars are better than the 250k road going sports cars. Quit caring about how big people think your dick is and drive the thing(the car, not your dick).

The only thing better than killing two birds with one stone is if someone kills them for you.

If you really want the fastest car, go drive the Cobalt SS, and if you like it, trade your car in, and then buy a few hookers to fill the seats with the money you get in hand from the trade.

Just so you know: The enthusiast rating for the C SS is 6/10. Want to guess the rating for the Elise SC? Ya, 10/10. Who knew.

Yeah, we get it. You're a loner and girls don't talk to you. And when they do talk to you, you reject them. And before you retort about Nicole... well, just be easy on me

[ivan1]

Originally Posted by lotusforsale

I guess I've lost track of the points being made.

The actual point is that Lotus is delivering a $50K plus car sports car, with improved power, which as delivered can't keep its N/A predecessor in sight, let alone outrun it.

let me summarize

The point was made that the elise SC (non sport-pack) was slower than the elise NA (LSS equipped) around the track because of the narrower fronts and less sticky tires.

While there is no arguing that stickier tires improve performance (thus exige S 220 faster 0-60 than elise SC), and wider fronts if nothing else will lessen understeer, comparing times achieved two years apart, with different suspensions, different drivers, stated problems shifting is

[ivan1]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

I will take you up on that...

I am getting my car serviced on the 10th....any time after that - I will even let you drive

[Bavarian Motorist]

I probably wouldn't notice a difference. I ain't got no skill After I stick my BWR on, which is in the mail, you can drive my toy too and compare it to yours.

[lotusforsale]

Originally Posted by ivan1

let me summarize

The point was made that the elise SC (non sport-pack) was slower than the elise NA (LSS equipped) around the track because of the narrower fronts and less sticky tires.

While there is no arguing that stickier tires improve performance (thus exige S 220 faster 0-60 than elise SC), and wider fronts if nothing else will lessen understeer, comparing times achieved two years apart, with different suspensions, different drivers, stated problems shifting is

Oh. Thanks

[mopho]

Originally Posted by fitfan

thats the problem - people take auto mags as gospel - they are not, they are crafted opinion, and rarely without some latent agenda involved. so that is why people do raise a few eyebrows at them.

vir grand is my favorite config. - its epic!

Sorry, the only agenda is the one by butt hurt fanboys who make false accusations (that they pull out of their ass) at the magazine for slighting their favorite car


Again, how do you know that there was some kind of "bias" against the Lotus, were you there?

[mrluky]

Yeah, we get it. You're a loner and girls don't talk to you. And when they do talk to you, you reject them. And before you retort about Nicole... well, just be easy on me

I like that...You have until November to lose enough weight to jump. If not, maybe nest year.

[FLuXeXigeS]

Originally Posted by turbophil

I think I'm going to have to agree with BavM. The Elise doesn't have a chance in the world as being accepted as a great DD, so why tip-toe around the subject. Every single one should come with the bigger and grippier tires than the 175 AD07s fronts... A step further, they all ought to have sport suspension or better yet sport pack ought to be standard and adjustables should be sport pack... I mean why not? Again, the s111 not going to sell well to the folks that want a Cobalt type car, it sells to extremists, so make sure everyone has extreme handling.... The car isn't all that much rougher riding in LSS form vs Std but it handles a bunch better and does a lot better in the mags with it...

How the car does in the mags has a lot to do with how the car sells, so it's largely up to the marketing team to get this right to ensure strong sales and a solid reputation---

Epic Fail Marketing team!

Cheers,

Phil

you nailed it on the head...end of story!!!

At VIR the Exige S did 3:04.5, beating the Audi R8 and Porsche 911 Turbo, and finishing I believe 4th overall. On the section by secton review of the track, the Lotus got through more sections faster than any other car, but where it lost out it lost out big enough to push it back to 4th.

and oh yeah my car kicks a$$ on last years VIR test woohoo