C&D Lightning Lap: 22 cars; 4 categories. Setting: VIR. Elise SC featured!

[Icedog_16]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

They don't need to be replaced every 5k miles unless you're a heavy track user. 10k is about normal for street use.


It's not a grand tourer. Not even close...

Most that I know of were getting 5K on their A048s on the street. Heck, I only got 10K out of my AD07s in normal use.

[Bavarian Motorist]

I got 11k from my A048s before the rears went.


My opinion is if you opt for the sport pack, you should get the sport tires. That's only fair to sport pack buyers. If you want the sport pack without the tires, then you should have to buy them yourself!

[evomind]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

I got 11k from my A048s before the rears went.

My opinion is if you opt for the sport pack, you should get the sport tires. That's only fair to sport pack buyers. If you want the sport pack without the tires, then you should have to buy them yourself!

you are babying it.
why?

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by evomind

you are babying it.
why?

I'm not. That included several autocrosses and lots of fun driving (mostly hwy miles). I'm not saying the tires were good for all 11k miles, but they worked, lol.

[Icedog_16]

I've had corded tires (not any time recently) that 'worked', too!

[mcoupe]

I think I read the Elise with AD048 and the 190hp engine was also faster in their testing that the SC! They also complianed about the transmission and not a vague or difficult shifter (recalling here)

[ivan1]

Originally Posted by mcoupe

I think I read the Elise with AD048 and the 190hp engine was also faster in their testing that the SC! They also complianed about the transmission and not a vague or difficult shifter (recalling here)

discussed above...not just different tires though....as you said they had difficulty shifting for some reason....different driver than the test 2 years earlier....different suspension...but none of those things really make a difference on the track do they

[mcoupe]

Honestly....It just bugged me the 135i was faster. Rest of the group could not care less!

[Green Ghost]

Two things (to me) to think about.
First is the alignment, how many cars are f-ed off the lot? Or need a bit of help (shims).
Two, I don’t care what others may say the 175 tire is BS. 195 is the right size, and why there isn’t a AD07 in a 195 in the U.S. for our car I don’t understand, the 175 size is the problem, it sucks. The AD07 is a vary good tire, its just the size.
OK a third point, as pointed out by others above, this car takes a bit to get the most out of. How familiar was the test driver with an Elise?

I vary much agree that auto mags help sell cars, Lotus marketing needs a slap. Marketing needs to give the mags a well sorted car that will look good (as in performance). If Lotus can sell more car (for what ever reason) it’s a good thing for us all.

[ivan1]

Originally Posted by Green Ghost

I vary much agree that auto mags help sell cars, Lotus marketing needs a slap. Marketing needs to give the mags a well sorted car that will look good (as in performance). If Lotus can sell more car (for what ever reason) it’s a good thing for us all.

agree 100%

make no mistake - the performance of the elise in this review is an embarrassment to Lotus...This is supposed to be a track car you can drive on the street, no?That is part of why we all live with the other shortcomings of the car....

we are used to seeing the car lose to higher hp cars such as the vette and viper...but no way it should lose to a FWD car with a 0-60 of 5.8 and .9 g skidpad, or some of the other cars in this test..

but what that tells me is not what others have concluded - not that the SC is slower than the NA, but that the results of this comparison were an aberration for the reasons discussed above....

[Bavarian Motorist]

I found the shifting operation in your car better than in my car... I'm surprised they couldn't shift.



I also think the 175mm front tires are too narrow. There's no way that doesn't adversely affect performance compared to the NA Elise they tested.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by Green Ghost

Two things (to me) to think about.
First is the alignment, how many cars are f-ed off the lot? Or need a bit of help (shims).
Two, I don’t care what others may say the 175 tire is BS. 195 is the right size, and why there isn’t a AD07 in a 195 in the U.S. for our car I don’t understand, the 175 size is the problem, it sucks. The AD07 is a vary good tire, its just the size.
OK a third point, as pointed out by others above, this car takes a bit to get the most out of. How familiar was the test driver with an Elise?

I vary much agree that auto mags help sell cars, Lotus marketing needs a slap. Marketing needs to give the mags a well sorted car that will look good (as in performance). If Lotus can sell more car (for what ever reason) it’s a good thing for us all.

good points, but unless the magazine testers want to do hours and hours of setup work.....
also, the lotus isnt the only car to come out of the factory with a less than optimal track alignment. many cars i know of are that way out of the factory.
take these tests for what they are...a test on a certain day at a certain track by certain drivers. generally speaking, all things considered equal. they test the cars "as is, as delivered."
i remember awhile back when the elise on ao48s bested a base corvette at the ring....i called it a "tire test" but nontheless there were high fives all around at the lotus community. they tested the cars "as delivered" fair enough.
these tests can be a double edged sword.
take them for what they are worth to you.

[wantanelise]

Originally Posted by fitfan

nope rationalist

i don't anyone that thinks its the "be all car"? ..thats the great thing about it is that it is NOT the be all ultimate car.

my point is that all the mags turned amazing times when the cars hit the us, then they (amazingly) dropped off in performance. why? my resoning is that the press was excited and gave the cars a fair shake before the editors realized they were not getting any advertising dollars from lotus. and - the big amercian car mag's only purpose in life is to sell advertising. honestly - if nissan stops pumping money in, it wouldn't suprise me if the gt-r gets slower over the years...

there are some guys here that track VIR a lot - i am sure they will be a little puzzled as well at that test.

i could really car less though - i am not a fan of the us car mags - i like my car just fine.

Holy **** you read my mind! I don't say it 'cause I believe I would be bashed...

[siejai]

Originally Posted by evomind

generally speaking, all things considered equal. they test the cars "as is, as delivered."

I may be remembering wrongly, but I think I remember reading in the article that all the cars were supposed to be equipped with the best package available from the factory* (engine/tires etc.). The fact that Lotus would even give car magazines a car without Sport pack just wasn't smart on their part. At least they gave the time the NA Elise did the track in the previous year and you could see that it was faster than the Cobalt did in their more recent test.

* I could be confusing this with Sept's Road & Track that had a 4 track test with the Exige S 240 (which came in 10/10)... but then again that one seemed a bit skewed as well, as the Viper SRT10 ACR came with a guy that adjusted the suspension and aero settings for each track while the others were just left as is. And that was justified because it's a "street-legal track car" (and I guess the Lotus just doesn't fit that bill )

[VisualEchos]

I have a friend (from a website) that's an automotive photographer. He was told by his friend, that did parts of this C&D shoot, that the major contributor to the poor Elise SC times was that the driver kept putting the car into 6th instead of 4th (something I've done myself several times).

We all know that with nothing but a different set of tires, and someone more familiar with the car behind the wheel, the Elise SC is a 3:08 car at VIR, if not quicker, but you've got to hand it to the little Cobalt for turning a 3:13, that time beat the new EVO MR, BMW 135i, Lexus ISF, Honda S2K CR, and Subaru STI, all cars that bring similar numbers to the table at a much higher price.

Of course, I'd push an Elise before I'd own a Cobalt...lol.

[VisualEchos]

Originally Posted by siejai

I may be remembering wrongly, but I think I remember reading in the article that all the cars were supposed to be equipped with the best package available from the factory* (engine/tires etc.).

"The cars featured here are all unmodified production vehicles, but we did request models equipped with performance-enhancing options such as larger brakes, stiffer suspensions, and the best wheel-and-tire packages." C&D, Nov 2008

[siejai]

Bleh... no wonder...

I just realized that 2008 Elises all have AD07s and only the Exige has the A048s

[Bavarian Motorist]

But this car also didn't have sport pack Of course, nowadays the sport pack is nothing more than an extra oil cooler, lighter wheels, and stiffer springs...

[mopho]

Originally Posted by UltimateLurker

I have a friend (from a website) that's an automotive photographer. He was told by his friend, that did parts of this C&D shoot, that the major contributor to the poor Elise SC times was that the driver kept putting the car into 6th instead of 4th (something I've done myself several times).

It was mentioned in the article that they were having problems with the shifter and that it held the car back some

We all know that with nothing but a different set of tires, and someone more familiar with the car behind the wheel, the Elise SC is a 3:08 car at VIR, if not quicker

Perhaps, but the driver was not all that familiar with the other cars either, so it likely would not have changed the outcome much. If you let the driver get more familiar with one, you have to do the same for all of them

, but you've got to hand it to the little Cobalt for turning a 3:13, that time beat the new EVO MR, BMW 135i, Lexus ISF, Honda S2K CR, and Subaru STI, all cars that bring similar numbers to the table at a much higher price.

Of course, I'd push an Elise before I'd own a Cobalt...lol.

I drove the Cobalt SS again in anger today, it is really F'n quick, but take away its go fast bits, it is still a Cobalt