Cobalt SS is faster than the Exige S

[evomind]

historically this board rips cars that outperform anything lotus except for mega high dollar exotics.
i see it all the time. i see posts where the poster hails their new lotus as the greatest, fastest car ever, and nothing can catch it on the track....
then reality sets in....
then it all comes down to "oh, my lotus is 'funner' to drive.."
maybe. maybe not. maybe sometimes. certainly not when youre staring at someones tail lights all night long...
then i hear abt the stereo types, then i hear they dont like the way the seats are stitched on some car.....

no car is perfect. how do u measure non subjective data? performance data is one way.
im sure the cobalt ss is a great car for the money....is it faster? faster where?
im certain the elise/exige is the cooler car to drive, but its double the money and is the most impractable car ive ever seen in a street car.
no car is perfect.

[BertPervert]

Originally Posted by CK_lotus

Cobalt SS is great!!
Alrighty, having said that now I can't wait to buy an Exige S. If we were all rational people we would all just line up at the Honda dealership and buy an Accord.

haha Yeah thats true or the Civic SI

[robains]

But the GT-R is close to perfect

historically this board rips cars that outperform anything lotus...

Isn't that Stereo typing? haha -- but I get your point, I however have no delusions about my Lotus just as I'm sure there will be plenty of occassions where one is humbled on the street and at the track.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by robains

But the GT-R is close to perfect

Isn't that Stereo typing? haha -- but I get your point, I however have no delusions about my Lotus just as I'm sure there will be plenty of occassions where one is humbled on the street and at the track.

maybe. but i can do that because i owned one! haha.

[mopho]

Originally Posted by robains

How is the GT-R not practical? It's only flaw is the 16-19 mpg city.

I said FAR more practical in addition to a really fun car, as in a car with useful back seats ( I have been in the back of the GT-R have you?), 4-doors and even a sportswagon that I can use to haul stuff

Buying a lap time makes no sense to me? Putting stickier rubber on any car is buying a better lap time - so what is your point? More HP is buying a better lap time. etc. etc. I can get cheap lap times but simply removing stuff from my Lotus and make it an even more of a harsh street car.

If you want the cheapest laptime, go buy a 125cc shifter Kart (good for about 3Gs under braking and 2.5 Gs cornering and 120 mph top speed with big track setup) or better yet a 250cc shifter single or twin (good for about 160 mph) -- all manual, and then some. I can assure you, they are more responsive than any shock based vehicle.

You assume I care about lap times at all. I don't. I do care about having fun in my cars, not bragging to people how I turned XXXX time, especially when it was the car that made for the time, not my skill.

And I have driven karts, and if I was going to do any kind of serious tracking, that is what I would do.

I guess Clarkson disagrees with you, his impression was a great deal of feedback from the car, much more than he expected.

Actually, Clarkson agreed with me that it was boring on the street, it was not until he got to drive like a hooligan on a track that he had all to himself that he started liking the car. In the real world, I don't get to drive like that so I will take the opinion I formed from driving the car myself.

If you watch the recent Road and Track videos Steve Millen described the car as a bit boring and he was Nissan's press day track hot shoe

Have you driven the car?

Exhaust, well it's a turbo, rarely do they ever sound good (except maybe a Champ car) no matter what exhaust you slap on it.

I disagree

Automatic tranny, less effort -- sounds good to me for a street car - especially stop an go traffic. My Lotus is a major pain in stop and go traffic.

I don't need a 500hp car to sit in traffic

Ok, 150 mph and I can still use my bluetooth cell phone, sounds good again -- for a street car. I can't hear myself think at 150 mph in my Lotus.

I don't get to drive 150mph on the street, I would rather my PERFORMANCE car to be fun to drive at speeds I can actually achieve, that is why I bought it

Seems like you're getting confused as to what the GT-R is -- it's a street car that also happens to be a REALLY fast track car.

Not confused at all, it is a STREET car ( and a big heavy grand touring car at that), that is why I don't really give a rats ass how fast it can go around a track in the hands of a professional driver, I care about how fun it is to drive on the street, where it will get used 99% of the time

It's supercar performance (actually beyond many supercars) at an affordable price without the compromises that come with many supercars.

Except it compromises, good looks, charisma, sound, mystique, cache, manual transmission, fun....

And BTW, I feel the same way about many other Supercars too (many of which I have driven as well), but at least most are sexy to look at and feel special when you drive them



But hey, if you like it so much go buy one, but don't question why I don't want one ( a week after this thread died no less ), especially since I drove it and formed my own opinion.

[Rondo Fondu]

If you bought the Lotus Elise or Exige for simply the performance you would have bought something else. It does not matter what you buy or drive there will ALWAYS be a car out there that goes faster, accelerates harder, handles better or whatever benchmarks you choose to employ in making a decision. Sure dollars enter the equation but you aren’t owning a Lotus because you are value conscious are you? If you were you be driving something completely different. If money were no object would you still choose the Lotus? Some would. Some wouldn’t. I personally have a “If I won the Lottery List of cars.”

If you bought and love the Lotus it’s because you are an “Enthusiast” when it comes to the car. The Lotus isn’t better, or worse than any other car out there on the market today. Opinions and critera are different with everyone. What the Lotus is though, IMO is a very skill full blend of what a true sports car is to the people that love them. Myself included. I love the way the car feels to drive, the way the car makes me feel, the uniqueness of the car. I love that it’s different. I can drive home today and see several Porches, Corvettes, BMW’s, etc but I am pretty sure I’m not going to see another Lotus. I like that. I for damn sure will see a Cobalt of some description. You can have your Cobalt SS. I don’t like it. I’m not driving my Elise because it’s the fastest to 60 mph or it out-corners a Cobalt. I don’t give a rip that some other car will get a faster lap time at the ring than my car. I do give a rip about the time that I spend driving a car gives something back to me. For me the Lotus returns in spades.

Want to do an interesting experiment? Take any ten enthusiast cars new off the showroom floor. Say an Exige 240, a Mazda Miata, a BMW M6, an Audiu G8, a Porsche Cayman S, a Corvette Z06, a Viper, a Cobalt SS, a Ferrari 430 Scuderia and say a Lambo Gallardo Superleggera. These are all very cool cars each with their own pluses. Now before you jump in and start a driving comparison take the $245,000 that you are about to spend on the Lambo subtract the price of the car you are about to buy from it and put the difference into the car you are about to buy. In other words, if I level the playing field and spend $170,000 on performance upgrades to my Exige what does that mean in terms of comparison? I’m pretty sure that my $245,000 Exige is going to be something to recon with in terms of an off the showroom floor Lambo.

And I’ll guarantee one thing. My $245,000 Exige is still not going to be the fastest car after you level the playing field….but I’ll still love it anyway

[BertPervert]

My favorite ride was a school bus. Talk about trick suspension work!

[robains]

Mopho,

I have no idea where you are coming from, but to each his/her own, your perspective is pretty unique.

As soon as I can find one, I'll drive one. Yes I would sell the Lotus for one -- in fact, if they were available before I purchased the Lotus I would have got one. The Lotus is a compromise, the GT-R isn't.

A car that can be both boring and exciting in different evironments is EXACTLY what I want -- and this is where your point of view just doesn't make any sense to me. Are you saying "it does the best of both worlds, but isn't fun" ??

As far as looks, it has grown on me, initially not a looker, but in the gray color scheme it looks good to me and the aero is functional not fiction. Not a big fan of the rear - looks too much like any standard Japanese sedan but that is a pretty minor compromise.

Rondo -- sure, always something faster. And yes drop 170,000K into the Lotus to make it faster -- but I still don't think that much money could make the Lotus be as comfy as a GT-R with room for 4 people, it could make it faster, but that isn't the purpose.

What the GT-R has successfully done, is brought incredible performance and daily driver comfort (and as far as I'm concerned that is fun) into one car not two separate cars. Is it the perfect car, no, but it's darn close! There is absolutely no other car I would want for $70K or less. There is A LOT to said for a "production" car -- including warranty and all the testing and tweaking that went into it to just getting it right.

[mopho]

Originally Posted by robains

Mopho,

I have no idea where you are coming from, but to each his/her own, your perspective is pretty unique.

Not really, I know a lot of people who have driven the car and feel the same way. And journalists too, just because they ring praise at what the car can do, doesn't mean that they think the car is fun and they would want to own one ( I work in the automotive journal industry, I have talked to a few quite a few about the car)

The Lotus is a compromise, the GT-R isn't.

Only if it is your only car

A car that can be both boring and exciting in different evironments is EXACTLY what I want -- and this is where your point of view just doesn't make any sense to me. Are you saying "it does the best of both worlds, but isn't fun" ??

Good for you, that is not what I want and you asked ME why I wouldn't want this car and I answered.
And it's not that hard to understand really, I would prefer to spend my money on two cars and have a nice daily driver and something special that is fun to drive for the weekends. Compared to my Caterham the GT-R feels like driving a school bus and if I was to choose so, I would still have enough money left over to buy a nice 3 series BMW or similar for daily driving duties. Best of both worlds!

As I noticed last time we debated, you assume that everyone uses their cars on the track

[Rondo Fondu]

Robains - Exactly my point. What's your personal yardstick? Mine is a fun, exciting two seat sports car that I don't see everyday. Answer for me Lotus. You exciting 4 seat more comfy car that can do everything mine can and probably more. Answer for you GT-R. (Not a bad answer by any yardstick). Not the same cars, Not the same yardstick. Look at me if I had wanted a street Lotus with max performance I would have gone with a Exige 240. My yardsick measured out an Elise SC. (had to have that top down rear vision thing, although admitedly with the SC it is still somewhat limited). And BTW I'd love to own both a GT-R and the Lotus but had to make the right choice....for me.

[turbophil]

Mopho- Regarding your views on the GT-R, and its rather pedestrian style and presence on the road (that's my summation of your several posts about it), this is probably just about the fist time ever I've agreed with you on just about anything

I sold my Supercharged C5 Vette and my CTS-V for many of the same reasons that I'm not interested in a GT-R....It's just so "normal". Normal looking, normal driving (Around town), normal exhaust, normal noises, normal electronic garbage, just normal...

That can be a good thing or a bad thing. In my opinion, regardless of what the GT-R can do on the track, you *can* compare a Lotus 111 to other atypical street legal track cars like a Ford GT, a Noble, etc (which are just more expensive versions of what we have)... You don't compare the stripped down, super fun, and flickable Lotus to a big GT car like the GT-R even if it is "faster". Apples and oranges. THe Lotus is a 2nd toy car while the GT-R is a daily driver... Same goes with that goofy Cobalt thingie. It's just not a toy, it's DD, and it will feel like DD... the 111 will never deel like a DD...

Best,

Phil

[robains]

Exactly, why have two cars, when you can have one that does both. I have own multiple cars and pay multiple insurances and multiple maintenance costs and mulitple ... you get the point.

I don't think my perspective is that unique, but I also don't subscribe to magazines -- but didn't you say that "all cars aren't really that bad"? So it's pretty obvious we differ in perspective. And you obviously have more vested interest in selling journalism even if that means adjusting perspective to get that job done.

An article that says the "GT-R is a nice car but boring" (i.e. element of contraversy in contrast to other journalist) would bring about more interest than an article that says GT-R is amazing (which most of know by now). We have enough reality media to know that "conflict" sells more than stating the obvious. Maybe that's your angle, don't know, but I'm pretty sure you have an angle or you wouldn't be in the business.

But as far as the GT-R goes, we'll just have to completely disagree.

I think you read into that assumption and it was taken out of context.

As far as the BMW goes, 3 series? No thanks, after driving the 135 that was by far more enjoyable daily driver especially if you go with the pimp daddy Carbon Fiber.

[lotusforsale]

Originally Posted by turbophil

...like a Ford GT, a Noble, etc (which are just more expensive versions of what we have)...

Not making this connection, esp with the Ford GT.

Every time I see one of our cars parked next to a Ford GT, the various Ferraris, Lambos, higher end Porsches, etc. the idea that the Exise/Elige qualifies as an exotic (not exactly what you're saying, but it's indicative of how owners see their cars) is clearly seen for the folly it is.

Our cars are what they are. Most fun I've ever had driving a car. But to me, far from being exotic, it's just a big, full bodied go cart. No more, no less. Certainly not an exotic just because of its looks, and most certainly not because of its performance.

They're a niche unto themselves, but I certainly would never consider the Elige/Exise a cheaper version of the Ford GT or Noble any more than I'd consider a 4 banger Fiero to be a cheaper version of the Elige/Exise.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by robains

Mopho,

I have no idea where you are coming from, but to each his/her own, your perspective is pretty unique.

As soon as I can find one, I'll drive one. Yes I would sell the Lotus for one -- in fact, if they were available before I purchased the Lotus I would have got one. The Lotus is a compromise, the GT-R isn't.

A car that can be both boring and exciting in different evironments is EXACTLY what I want -- and this is where your point of view just doesn't make any sense to me. Are you saying "it does the best of both worlds, but isn't fun" ??

As far as looks, it has grown on me, initially not a looker, but in the gray color scheme it looks good to me and the aero is functional not fiction. Not a big fan of the rear - looks too much like any standard Japanese sedan but that is a pretty minor compromise.

Rondo -- sure, always something faster. And yes drop 170,000K into the Lotus to make it faster -- but I still don't think that much money could make the Lotus be as comfy as a GT-R with room for 4 people, it could make it faster, but that isn't the purpose.

What the GT-R has successfully done, is brought incredible performance and daily driver comfort (and as far as I'm concerned that is fun) into one car not two separate cars. Is it the perfect car, no, but it's darn close! There is absolutely no other car I would want for $70K or less. There is A LOT to said for a "production" car -- including warranty and all the testing and tweaking that went into it to just getting it right.

dont sweat it. he likes what he likes.
i get the impression big fast cars arent his thing...he likes little nimble cars that he finds aesthetically appealing. (along with look, sound, roadfeel, manual shift...)

[evomind]

Originally Posted by turbophil

Mopho- Regarding your views on the GT-R, and its rather pedestrian style and presence on the road (that's my summation of your several posts about it), this is probably just about the fist time ever I've agreed with you on just about anything

I sold my Supercharged C5 Vette and my CTS-V for many of the same reasons that I'm not interested in a GT-R....It's just so "normal". Normal looking, normal driving (Around town), normal exhaust, normal noises, normal electronic garbage, just normal...

That can be a good thing or a bad thing. In my opinion, regardless of what the GT-R can do on the track, you *can* compare a Lotus 111 to other atypical street legal track cars like a Ford GT, a Noble, etc (which are just more expensive versions of what we have)... You don't compare the stripped down, super fun, and flickable Lotus to a big GT car like the GT-R even if it is "faster". Apples and oranges. THe Lotus is a 2nd toy car while the GT-R is a daily driver... Same goes with that goofy Cobalt thingie. It's just not a toy, it's DD, and it will feel like DD... the 111 will never deel like a DD...

Best,

Phil

OMG....haha. sorry. the little elise isnt even in the same league with these cars....o...m....g.
lol.
trust me. i know the elise is the greatest thing since the miata, but man, its not even close to a ford gt or a noble.
ive driven one and own the other.....out of respect for the lotus board, i wont get into a comparison, but jeez....its not even a comparison.

[BertPervert]

I like Turtles.

[robains]

True about the exotics statement. I don't consider the Lotus an exotic and I don't consider the GT-R an exotic either.

Don't get me wrong, I love my Lotus, it's amazingly precise, but it ain't no Kart.

Me in my Kart 80 mph or so


Me in Lotus doing video check

Hopefully you notice the difference

[Tracktimeplz]

Originally Posted by evomind

OMG....haha. sorry. the little elise isnt even in the same league with these cars....o...m....g.
lol.
trust me. i know the elise is the greatest thing since the miata, but man, its not even close to a ford gt or a noble.
ive driven one and own the other.....out of respect for the lotus board, i wont get into a comparison, but jeez....its not even a comparison.

You own a GT or a Noble?

When did you get or drive the GT?

[turbophil]

Originally Posted by evomind

OMG....haha. sorry. the little elise isnt even in the same league with these cars....o...m....g.
lol.
trust me. i know the elise is the greatest thing since the miata, but man, its not even close to a ford gt or a noble.
ive driven one and own the other.....out of respect for the lotus board, i wont get into a comparison, but jeez....its not even a comparison.

Clarification, I think my post didn't read correctly for you... I'm not saying that it's as fast as those cars... What I am saying is that they're all 3 impractical, track focused cars (yes at different levels of performance). They only seat 2 people. They're all three marginally uncomfortable, with marginal HVAC. They all are a blast to drive and are closer to oversized go-karts rather than refined DDs. They're all 3 leaps and bounds more fun and more of an experience to drive than "GT" car regardless of the horsepwer the GT car has... why? Because it's a GT car

You get what you pay for with the three of them (GT, Noble, Lotus). In that field the Lotus is 3rd on my list of wants, Noble is second, and GT is first. I purchased the Lotus because it's cheap and if I shunt it to the ditch, I won't lose sleep about it. A *somewhat* painless check will put a Lotus back on the road (donor cars are all over ebay)... Not so with the GT or Noble.... That's why I compare them. They're a lot more similar than the GT-R or that silly Cobalt.

Make sense?

Best,

Phil

[mopho]

Originally Posted by robains

Exactly, why have two cars, when you can have one that does both.

Because that is a compromise.

And I insure three cars and maintain them and I guarantee it is less than the cost of maintaining and insuring one GT-R.

I don't think my perspective is that unique, but I also don't subscribe to magazines -- but didn't you say that "all cars aren't really that bad"? So it's pretty obvious we differ in perspective. And you obviously have more vested interest in selling journalism even if that means adjusting perspective to get that job done.

An article that says the "GT-R is a nice car but boring" (i.e. element of contraversy in contrast to other journalist) would bring about more interest than an article that says GT-R is amazing (which most of know by now). We have enough reality media to know that "conflict" sells more than stating the obvious. Maybe that's your angle, don't know, but I'm pretty sure you have an angle or you wouldn't be in the business.

Nice try, but there is no angle. My opinion is not used to sell magazines, I am a photographer (and freelance at that) for magazines and car companies, I don't write very often.
My opinion is my personal opinion as an enthusiast that has the good fortune of getting to drive many cars. I also get to talk with many people in the industry and hear their insight as well. But of course you know better than I do

Once again, YOU decided to rehash this thread bringing up a point (attacking me) that has nothing to do with the discussion regarding the Cobalt. And again, YOU asked me why I don't want a GT-R and I explained to you why I don't want one, END OF STORY!!!!!

I formed my opinion after driving the car, you have not even driven the car, you don't get to tell me that I am wrong

You did the same thing last time too, trying to tell me how magazines I work for, and you don't, conduct their business