A few questions for M3 owners

[julius_the_cat]

Originally Posted by Domino

I agree... I have a '95 e36 M3 that I bought brand-new and it's been great. No sub-frame issues either. My wife thought I was going to sell it when I got the Elise... NOT. The M3 is my winter car and the Lotus is my summer car.

My spouse also expected my Daytona Violet 95 would finally be gone. A friend of my who moved away a few years ago called last summer hoping that I was tired of it and he could buy it for his son. Just runs too good to sell, perfect winter car for Wisconsin.

"winter" car in NorCal?

[alexandertg4]

Originally Posted by megatron

Well, I guess you really don't like their site... No disagreement there, their is garbage at every forum. But I am guessing there is still more M3 owner there then on this site (I could be wrong). Your $50 deductable comment on CPO is correct only after the original warranty has expired.

You are correct on the CPO statement. However, an 03 or 04 will most likely not have the original warranty still. e46fanatics I am sorry to say, are mostly 325ci and 328ci owners who try to make M3s out of their non-M3s.

[alexandertg4]

Originally Posted by ITA66

Had an E46 M3 for the Praxis airspring development. Cant remember what year but probably 01-02 per a previous post. We bought the car used with about 30k miles. It was properly maintained by us. Rod bearings had been previously replaced. Motor expired while driving the speed limit on the highway. Rod bearing failure again. Ironically, the closest dealer to the failure was called "New Motors BMW". Entire motor was replaced under warranty. By the time we sold it, the synchros were shot and the trans was rather crunchy. Handling was more understeer than ANY VEHICLE I HAVE EVER DRIVEN! I have never driven a car where you can transition to limit handling, crank the steering to the stops, experience zero change in vehicle handling, and then return the steering back to the point of limit handling and continue with the corner. It had the peakiest handling I have ever experienced. Of course, the Praxis suspension fixed that because we were very smart. Ditching the OE Michelins in favor of the same size tires from another vendor (in our case Bridgestone) helped the understeer considerably. The dampers were really too stiff for street driving because the ride was so busy you couldnt even drink coffee while driving. Of course, the adjustable Praxis dampers fixed that too. Brakes were good and honestly the only car we DIDNT have to upgrade the brakes for track driving. The sway bar links failed too.

Our other BMW was an E46 330 Ci. It was in the shop about 5 times with stupid stuff...door rattles, broken flywheel, broken clutch, clicking valve lifters, bad ignition coils. All replaced under warranty. We eventually replaced the dual mass flywheel with standard flywheel out of an older 5 series.

In comparision, our Subaru WRX's had 5 times the street miles, 20 times the track miles, 100 times the track abuse (journalists), about 10 bent wheels due to said abuse and ......zero trips to the dealer and only one failed wheel bearing on our primary track car.

BMW's are wonderful to drive and the E46 M3 motor is a work of art, but I wouldnt say they are reliable. Just expect to have issues that need to be dealt with. At least the dealership service is excellent.

Just my .02.

You truly have a special WRX. I had a WRX and 3 of my buddies had WRXs. The WRX suffers from a piece of trash trans. You can make good power but the trans blows up. The exhaust downpipe and uppipe leaks all the time, they are heavy, only decent on gas with Cobb accessport and are cheap on the interior. Comparing an M3 to a WRX is like comparing a Ferrari to a Lotus.

[KingOfJericho]

My ex had a 2005 STI and it was extremely cheap, rattled like crazy, clutch constantly creaked, and the suspension clunked from day 1. If I'm going to drive a car with a few quirks, I'd much rather have it be a cushy M3 than a spartan STI.

[EliseCat]

Thanks for starting this thread.

I've honestly always wanted and M3.
A lot of useful information here.
I'll be watching this thread.

Hope you're successful in finding that color combo you want.
I've seen that combo in person and it is definitely very cool.

[onvacation]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

some cars have 18's with a lip and others have shiny, flat faced 19's. Do the 19's denote a sport package of some sort? Would a sport package change anything else about the car?

nothing different apart from bling factor. i heard concerns about maybe having a rough ride with the 19s, so i went conservative and got the 18s. if i had it to do over again, i'd get the 19s. apparently, i like the bling..

[alexandertg4]

The 19 inch was just a wheel option. Now the competition wheels are teh sex. I can get you a set for cheap if you would like them. They are 19s in the BBS mesh style.

[Agent ONE]

Originally Posted by alexandertg4

Don't listen to him. The e36 is marginally lighter. My friend's e36 came out at 32xx and my e46 came out at 34xx without stripping it. Just don't get a sunroof and chuck the stock exhaust. The S52 motor in the e36's is a dog compared to the S54 in the e46. On top of that, the e36 has subframe issues and will require you to weld in a reinforcement plate from turner motorsports. If you want truly a great M3. Get the E30 or a 95 e36 M3. The e30 is drop dead gorgeous and the 95 is OBD1 which will make power easier. The 95 is a 3.0 liter however. Or if you are truly in love with the e36 get a lightweight. The e46 M3 may feel like a pig but that is because the springs are a bit soft. It is a luxury car after all.

E 36 Curb weight 3219 lb
E 46 Curb weight 3415 lb

http://www.grmotorsports.com/backissues/e46-m3.php

200 lbs. Marginal?

You are right about the suspension. The car just isn't that fun to drive. I think our thread starter SHOULD listen to me.

[alexandertg4]

3219/240hp=13.4125 lbs per hp
3415/333hp=10.2552 lbs per hp

That article basically supports me in the fact that the E46 is a better car hah. 200 lbs on a 3400 lb car is 5 percent which i think is marginal. The M3 is not as weight responsive as a lotus. Like I said, you chuck the exhaust, stock battery, get CSL headers and a non resonated midpipe and you saved over 100 lbs right there and gained about 25 horse. Total cost is 1600 for the headers, 150 for the battery, 1000 for the exhaust. The CSL headers are truly a piece of work weighing in at 4 each piece rather than stock 17 pounders.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Agent ONE

E 36 Curb weight 3219 lb
E 46 Curb weight 3415 lb

http://www.grmotorsports.com/backissues/e46-m3.php

200 lbs. Marginal?

You are right about the suspension. The car just isn't that fun to drive. I think our thread starter SHOULD listen to me.

200lbs is a passenger... I would call that marginal especially given the power difference. I was seconds away from buying a '98 M3 sedan but my girlfriend said it best... the interior looks 20 years old while the car was only 10. It seemed very dated and the car felt slow to me. The Altima I drive now felt stronger. E36 is not an option - plain and simple.

[alexandertg4]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

200lbs is a passenger... I would call that marginal especially given the power difference. I was seconds away from buying a '98 M3 sedan but my girlfriend said it best... the interior looks 20 years old while the car was only 10. It seemed very dated and the car felt slow to me. The Altima I drive now felt stronger. E36 is not an option - plain and simple.

The e46 M3, a fine choice my friend.

[boxerman]

I have an 05 M3 no problems but then have only 7kmi. Struggled to order one without a sunroof, dealers think there is no resale that way, which says a lot about who buys an M3.

The handling on the limit is basicaly benign, the grip seems tremendous but the limits are not too high and the break predicatable and easily controlled.

The motor is great although the big power is high up on the revs so to get it you are caning along which means already traveling at a rapid rate.

The body feels heavy for the suspension, so the ride feels stiff yet there is a lot of body movement in transition from r to l ot l to r.

The brakes are great for the street but will fade quickly on the track. This is essentialy a street car that can dance if pushed, but on a track feels like a buttoned down sedan although with great power and reasonable grip.

Spent a day at the BMW factory and had numerous demos in their M3's. The electronics really can help in the wet, but on a track need to be turned off because they really reign the car in. However on a wet skidpad you can turn and then floor it, the safty nannies reign in the power so steering even in the wet is restored.

Its a fun daily driver, steering feel is sub par. I wouldnt wake up early on a sunday to drive it, but it is huge fun as a runaround. A great road trip car. Had a blast flowing down the blue ridge parkway. The stereo upgrade is awesome for most music. AC is great everything works and it is as easy as most cars to drive in traffic etc.

So really painless, a bit of a hard ride, great performance, not exceptional, ultimatly a very fast street car. Or at least has more go than you need for the street.

I also think it is very well made particularily in terms of inerior trim. A quality product that is not quite what its image would suggest in terms of performance, but better and more fun than most.

As a street car the only place to go for more performance in a livable package that still is a drivers type car for under 100k is something like a Skyline GTR or then EVO/Subie and those last two are really tin cans in feel and quality by comparison. Also every cop will pull over the fast and furios ricers whereas an M3 just sorta blends in.

[Bavarian Motorist]

So I don't mean to pry, but what happened to the 135i??

[Bavarian Motorist]

Originally Posted by boxerman

Also every cop will pull over the fast and furios ricers whereas an M3 just sorta blends in.

Actually, M3s are kind of assuming this role now that they are becoming more affordable There's this one at my school...holy crap. I'll take a pic today.

Fortunately, there's enough respectable people in M3s to offset it. Sort of

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by Bavarian Motorist

So I don't mean to pry, but what happened to the 135i??

Funny you should mention that... I test drove the 135i on Wednesday. They only had an automatic demo car but holy sh!t was that car fast. The simple answer to your question is the money. I can get a really nice M3 for low $30's but the 135i will cost me mid $40's. The 135i is also a smaller car by comparison. It's not a Lotus but it's also not an E46. I am also closing on my condo in June and need to be a little more careful when spending my dough for the next year or so.

[Bavarian Motorist]

Well, just an idea, but what if you waited for some slightly used 135is to pop up? If you're closing on a condo, it makes sense to keep your buying power strong by not buying a new car (unless you're paying outright) and by June, there should be SOME used ones


Obviously I'm not familiar with your situation, but it's just an idea. You must be itching to get a fun car again

[shay2nak]

ALL the 1 series cars are over 40k. BMW sent these dealers loaded cars before they could order what they want. All you need is a base 135i with maybe xenon & sport pack. That's it. That should be about 36k or so. But a base price of 34k is bullsh*t and 28 or 29k for 128i. retarded... they should sell a 120i with 2L NA 4 banger with at least 200hp. I would buy that one @ 25k

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

ALL the 1 series cars are over 40k. BMW sent these dealers loaded cars before they could order what they want. All you need is a base 135i with maybe xenon & sport pack. That's it. That should be about 36k or so. But a base price of 34k is bullsh*t and 28 or 29k for 128i. retarded... they should sell a 120i with 2L NA 4 banger with at least 200hp. I would buy that one @ 25k

135i starts at nearly $36K ($35,675) with destination. Add an actual color, leather seats, and sports pack and it's already pushing $40K. BMW did not send cars before the dealers could order what they want. The dealers all received the same 3 cars... 128i convert, 128i, and 135i... all automotic. I was originally first on the waiting list at my dealer but dropped off. They guy who took my place got his car the same day the dealer got their demos so I'm not sure where you got that information from but it's inaccurate.

A 6 cyl at less than $29K is "retarded" but a 4cyl at $25K is reasonable?

[shay2nak]

Originally Posted by KingOfJericho

135i starts at nearly $36K ($35,675) with destination. Add an actual color, leather seats, and sports pack and it's already pushing $40K. BMW did not send cars before the dealers could order what they want. The dealers all received the same 3 cars... 128i convert, 128i, and 135i... all automotic. I was originally first on the waiting list at my dealer but dropped off. They guy who took my place got his car the same day the dealer got their demos so I'm not sure where you got that information from but it's inaccurate.

A 6 cyl at less than $29K is "retarded" but a 4cyl at $25K is reasonable?

ah, well I did see a 135i 6 speed and that was 46k!! I'd rather spend as little as possible for such a small car. I think 25k would be nice for a high HP, high revving 4 banger. Not to mention RWD and a BMW. If a dealer had a 128 base 6 speed on the lot, I would have bought it, but no way will I pay 40k for that car. And it's supposed to be a pure BMW, entry level and it's the same price as a 3 series.

[KingOfJericho]

Originally Posted by shay2nak

And it's supposed to be a pure BMW, entry level and it's the same price as a 3 series.

I would suggest driving one. It's not the same price as the 3 series either. There is a $5K difference between the 2 cars (in _35i form, comparing apples to apples) but they're really different animals. The 1er feels like a sports car and the 3er feels like a large coupe that goes fast. If you ask me, it's the most "pure" BMW offered right now. The 3 series moved up in every way and lost a great deal of it's charm along the way. This is an ideal replacement for a segment of the market that BMW knew they had moved out of with the 3 series.