Good buy? Ferrari

[tecn9ne23]

good buy?
1993 Ferrari 348 TS, $39,900 - Cars.com

[squidward]

for a 18-year old car, it looks great. Buy it!

[RoadDad]

Add another $10K+ to have the hideous, unbalanced and non-functional aftermarket wing removed. Unless, of course, you like it.

[Wexler]

Originally Posted by RoadDad

Add another $10K+ to have the hideous, unbalanced and non-functional aftermarket wing removed. Unless, of course, you like it.

Right? That was the first thing that struck me as well.


OP - I would suggest going to Ferrarichat and ask - if the car get's trashed, you know the answer.

[NoFear99]

+++ 1 for the wing removed...

Otherwise nice looking car !

[erubin]

Interesting that it has a roll cage installed, I assume its aftermarket. Was it a dedicated track car? Look into maintenance costs and recent service history.

[tko211]

+1 on checking with the Ferrari guys. A 90's era Ferrari might be a little hard on the wallet when it comes to maintaining it. But I'm not sure.

I seriously considered an early model diablo lambo for 49k only to do some homework and discover that the maintainenece required to actually drive the car 4-6k miles typically runs 30-40k. I was told that it was like owning a military fighter. 1 hour of drive time = 1 hour of shop time.

[User Name]

Originally Posted by RoadDad

Add another $10K+ to have the hideous, unbalanced and non-functional aftermarket wing removed. Unless, of course, you like it.

Or get a 355 instead.

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by tko211

+1 on checking with the Ferrari guys. A 90's era Ferrari might be a little hard on the wallet when it comes to maintaining it. But I'm not sure.

Definitely check. The 348 and especially the 355 are my favorite F-cars other than the 308/328. But, Ive stayed away due to difficult maintenance procedures and costs. The 308 can be worked on easily by yourself with some common tools and a little patience. As the cars got more digital and technical - they got harder to work on, just like most newer cars.

And, lets be honest - Ferrari (and Lotus too ) arent exactly known for their bullet proof electrics so sensors and stuff like that is gonna be fragile and probably quirky. Not saying to avoid the cars - just expect the unexpected and be ready to pounce on any issues. But, some items are probably shop-only and the phrase "engine out" is used a lot more when discussing newer F-cars than older ones.

Interestingly, the guy I bought my Esprit Turbo from purchased a 1992 348 and had to do a crank angle sensor within the first few months and there was NO way he could get at it himself. It cost a pretty buck to rectify it.

Or - find a late model 328 and just go that route.

[doug_porsche]

Check on the maint records.
Here is an article I borrowed from a Ferrari forum for reference.


Originally Posted by MikeR397 View Post
First, let me say that I am not trying to make buying a Ferrari only about the financials. This is just a fun post to share some useful info I've collected from the threads here, and an opportunity for others to correct any mistaken assumptions on my part. I realize buying a Ferrari is about emotions, but your $ needs to be able to support it still. The following is a writeup for my estimations on the cost of owning a 2005/2006 F430 F1, purchased now with cash at $130k with 8k existing miles.

Basics/Estimations:

Purchase Price: $130k
Sales Tax (7%): $9,100 one time cost (adjust as needed for you)
Annual Miles Driven: 4,000 annual, for 5 years = 20,000. (This estimation does not include expenses/maintenance associated with track use; If you are concerned about financials and want to track a car, then buy a Porsche, not a Ferrari (or better, buy both!)).
5 year holding period depreciation: Sale with 28k miles in 2016 = $50k estimated depreciation, sale at $80k. This is just a rough guess based on where a current 11 year old (2000) 360 is priced.
Loan Costs: Pay in cash, so none here. If you finance/lease, remember to add these in.
Annual registration fees: None for me in Ohio, but if you are in CA or another state that does this, I think it could be as high as $2k annually, which would add over $10k to your 5 year cost. Ouch.

Maintenance:

Clutch: Est. life of 15k miles, one replacement needed at $6,500
Tires: Est. life of 12,000 miles, two full replacements over ownership costing $3,000
Annual Service/fluids: Oil/filter and brake fluid: Est. $1,000 annual, perhaps can do DIY if so inclined for $300. Total = $5,000 over 5 years.
Front Brake pads (steel brakes, NOT CCB): Not too sure about this, but I thought I've seen that front pads can be done for $1k? If so, probably need at least new front pads over course of ownership.
Belts: F430 is chain driven, so no cost here (compared to $3k per 3 years for 360 I think; In the big picture not that big of a deal when comparing the two models).
Misc annual maintenance: $400 annually planned, $2,000 cost over 5 years - This includes things like power window motors, alignment, ect.

Repairs:

*I'm not including any of the repairs costs in the cost of ownership as they cannot be planned for. You may have no problem, or you may have a significant one, but a $15k side fund for repairs is advised.

F1 Pump: Not common problem, but I've seen numbers from $3.5k to $11k depending on the acutators as well.

Full Brake or Rotor Replacement: For street driving, I've read all you really need is front pads. While CCM brakes seem to cost about $35,000 for all four corners, I think steel is perhaps $7k? I'm not too sure about the details here, but this will mostly depend on if you track the car (in which case maintenance will be much higher too).

What else to add here as considerations of possible/likely repairs during 5 years of ownership?


Insurance:

Assuming this is your 3rd car with 4k miles driven annually: $750 annual - total over 5 years = $3,750 . This could be higher for some driver's, but it is what Geico quoted me.

Fuel:

20,000 miles at an average of (hopefully!) $3 per gallon at 15mpg average = $4,000 over 5 years.

Opportunity Cost:

This isn't going to be included in the total either, since it varies so much from person to person, but is still a significant financial impact considering the six figure price tag. In fact, opportunity cost is perhaps the main reason I personally am likely to hold off on buying until next spring, considering I have a extremely high opportunity cost of capital right now which will likely be much lower next year.

Total:

In total, the costs over the course of 5 years, ignoring unexpected repairs and opportunity cost of your money, as well as ignoring loan/lease costs and annual registration fees if your state requires this, total: $50k (depreciation) + $9.1k (sales tax) + $6.5k (clutch) + $3k (2 sets tires) + $5k (annual service) + $1k (front brake pads) + Misc. maintenance ($2k) + $3,750 (insurance) + $4k fuel = $84,350.

So $84,350 of actual costs to own a $130k F430 for 5 years with 4k annual miles driven is my estimation. Again, keep in mind you should have an extra $15k fund for potential major repairs, but these seem to be rare on the F430 model. Note also that at only 5% return on your cash, opportunity cost of $130k over 5 years would add over $32,500 to your real cost.

This might hurt then: 20k miles driven at $84,350 cost = ~$4.25 per mile. Assuming my numbers are close, and how this ignores opportunity cost and major repairs, and is on a 6 year old Ferrari, I think the "$1 per mile ownership cost" is way off. So, driving 15 miles each way to dinner; that'll cost you $127.50 before you pay for your dinner. . Of course, this also ignores the "artwork value" of staring in awe of your Ferrari while parked.

I look forward to comments, and will be happy to tweak things if my assumptions are mistaken or I've left out major items. I hope this gives a decent picture to those wondering if "I can afford a F430." Plan on $85k-$120k of overall costs including repairs/opportunity cost right now. Personally, I think its definately worth it, and am just waiting for my own optimal timing to match up, but in no case do I think I'll be able to wait longer than next spring .

[308tr6]

As a past Ferrari owner, I have now added "a good buy on a Ferrari" to the following list:

jumbo shrimp
legal ethics
military intelligence
political science

etc., etc.,

Two kinds of people buy Ferrari's - those than can afford them, and those that can't.

[squidward]

Originally Posted by 308tr6

As a past Ferrari owner, I have now added "a good buy on a Ferrari" to the following list:

jumbo shrimp
legal ethics
military intelligence
political science

etc., etc.,

Two kinds of people buy Ferrari's - those than can afford them, and those that can't.

lol

[Chupee1]

Originally Posted by User Name

Or get a 355 instead.

Please DONT listen to Mr No Name User , dont forget to do the cluth on a 355 ENGINE OUT about 10 grand .. Ill asuume the OP did NOt know this.

[Chupee1]

Originally Posted by doug_porsche

Check on the maint records.
Here is an article I borrowed from a Ferrari forum for reference.


Originally Posted by MikeR397 View Post
First, let me say that I am not trying to make buying a Ferrari only about the financials. This is just a fun post to share some useful info I've collected from the threads here, and an opportunity for others to correct any mistaken assumptions on my part. I realize buying a Ferrari is about emotions, but your $ needs to be able to support it still. The following is a writeup for my estimations on the cost of owning a 2005/2006 F430 F1, purchased now with cash at $130k with 8k existing miles.

Basics/Estimations:

Purchase Price: $130k
Sales Tax (7%): $9,100 one time cost (adjust as needed for you)
Annual Miles Driven: 4,000 annual, for 5 years = 20,000. (This estimation does not include expenses/maintenance associated with track use; If you are concerned about financials and want to track a car, then buy a Porsche, not a Ferrari (or better, buy both!)).
5 year holding period depreciation: Sale with 28k miles in 2016 = $50k estimated depreciation, sale at $80k. This is just a rough guess based on where a current 11 year old (2000) 360 is priced.
Loan Costs: Pay in cash, so none here. If you finance/lease, remember to add these in.
Annual registration fees: None for me in Ohio, but if you are in CA or another state that does this, I think it could be as high as $2k annually, which would add over $10k to your 5 year cost. Ouch.

Maintenance:

Clutch: Est. life of 15k miles, one replacement needed at $6,500
Tires: Est. life of 12,000 miles, two full replacements over ownership costing $3,000
Annual Service/fluids: Oil/filter and brake fluid: Est. $1,000 annual, perhaps can do DIY if so inclined for $300. Total = $5,000 over 5 years.
Front Brake pads (steel brakes, NOT CCB): Not too sure about this, but I thought I've seen that front pads can be done for $1k? If so, probably need at least new front pads over course of ownership.
Belts: F430 is chain driven, so no cost here (compared to $3k per 3 years for 360 I think; In the big picture not that big of a deal when comparing the two models).
Misc annual maintenance: $400 annually planned, $2,000 cost over 5 years - This includes things like power window motors, alignment, ect.

Repairs:

*I'm not including any of the repairs costs in the cost of ownership as they cannot be planned for. You may have no problem, or you may have a significant one, but a $15k side fund for repairs is advised.

F1 Pump: Not common problem, but I've seen numbers from $3.5k to $11k depending on the acutators as well.

Full Brake or Rotor Replacement: For street driving, I've read all you really need is front pads. While CCM brakes seem to cost about $35,000 for all four corners, I think steel is perhaps $7k? I'm not too sure about the details here, but this will mostly depend on if you track the car (in which case maintenance will be much higher too).

What else to add here as considerations of possible/likely repairs during 5 years of ownership?


Insurance:

Assuming this is your 3rd car with 4k miles driven annually: $750 annual - total over 5 years = $3,750 . This could be higher for some driver's, but it is what Geico quoted me.

Fuel:

20,000 miles at an average of (hopefully!) $3 per gallon at 15mpg average = $4,000 over 5 years.

Opportunity Cost:

This isn't going to be included in the total either, since it varies so much from person to person, but is still a significant financial impact considering the six figure price tag. In fact, opportunity cost is perhaps the main reason I personally am likely to hold off on buying until next spring, considering I have a extremely high opportunity cost of capital right now which will likely be much lower next year.

Total:

In total, the costs over the course of 5 years, ignoring unexpected repairs and opportunity cost of your money, as well as ignoring loan/lease costs and annual registration fees if your state requires this, total: $50k (depreciation) + $9.1k (sales tax) + $6.5k (clutch) + $3k (2 sets tires) + $5k (annual service) + $1k (front brake pads) + Misc. maintenance ($2k) + $3,750 (insurance) + $4k fuel = $84,350.

So $84,350 of actual costs to own a $130k F430 for 5 years with 4k annual miles driven is my estimation. Again, keep in mind you should have an extra $15k fund for potential major repairs, but these seem to be rare on the F430 model. Note also that at only 5% return on your cash, opportunity cost of $130k over 5 years would add over $32,500 to your real cost.

This might hurt then: 20k miles driven at $84,350 cost = ~$4.25 per mile. Assuming my numbers are close, and how this ignores opportunity cost and major repairs, and is on a 6 year old Ferrari, I think the "$1 per mile ownership cost" is way off. So, driving 15 miles each way to dinner; that'll cost you $127.50 before you pay for your dinner. . Of course, this also ignores the "artwork value" of staring in awe of your Ferrari while parked.

I look forward to comments, and will be happy to tweak things if my assumptions are mistaken or I've left out major items. I hope this gives a decent picture to those wondering if "I can afford a F430." Plan on $85k-$120k of overall costs including repairs/opportunity cost right now. Personally, I think its definately worth it, and am just waiting for my own optimal timing to match up, but in no case do I think I'll be able to wait longer than next spring .

To the Op THis article has absolutely nothing to do with your question This is in regards to a 430 which is pretty much bulletproof compared to a 348. Cheaper to get a mistress . Same cost and headache but at least youll have SOME FUN.... After looking at the pics again, if $ are an iissue Go buy a Fiero and slap on some wings and **** There ya fo Ferrari baby!

[s2mikey]

Originally Posted by Chupee1

Please DONT listen to Mr No Name User , dont forget to do the cluth on a 355 ENGINE OUT about 10 grand .. Ill asuume the OP did NOt know this.

Yepper. The F355 is extremely maintenance intensive. A good friend of my fathers said this once:

"The second greatest day of my life was when I took delivery of my new F355. The FIRST greatest day of my life was the day I got rid of it."

Now, he liked the car and did say this sort of tongue-in-cheek. However, he was serious in a way too. The car was brutal to deal with. But, when all is well, there isnt a car you'd rather be in. His words too.

Modern F-cars make older Esprits like mine seem like Honda civics as far as repairs go.

[Viggen]

I would think with a cage it would of been a track car??? Many do state the 348 & 355 were some of the most expensize F cars to maintain. Possibly talk to your local shop and ask if they work on them & typical costs of maintenance..... that is if that's a concern.

My local shop does gets several of them in during a year .... had a 355 in there last year & their cost on new plugs & a oil filter was over $350

[Demonized]

If you can't afford a new one, you certainly can't afford a used one.

[Mulder]

If you can't afford a new one, you certainly can't afford a used one.

Hahaha...maybe I could say the same thing about myself and an Elise. :P

[muskaroxs]

My Business partner will sell you his F355 for $40k

[chazzer]

Originally Posted by Demonized

If you can't afford a new one, you certainly can't afford a used one.

I agree whole heartedly.. If you just won the Lottery then buy you a Ferrari, Lambo, Pagani Zonda or a Bugatti Veyron... but if you just won at the Monday night Catholic Bingo buy you a nice used Elise like I did . It will give you all the fun and attention that you will most certainly enjoy. My friend has a 360 Ferrari Modena and I get just as much questions and good comments at the car shows as he does when I park right next to him.