GT-R is more GT than R

[aschen]

Originally Posted by MickOpalak

.

What exactly is the GT-R trying to be anyways? ?

Master of the magazine race.
It can turn a ridiculously quick single lap, but isnt suited for frequent HPDE really
It can post a jaw droping 0-60, but may endanger transmission

For a magazine reading, casual sports car admirer, it is the greatest car ever.

[turbophil]

I think they're trying to compete with 911TT... and in that space, they're probably decent competition... that said, the 911TT is just way, way, way more fun to drive... If I were in the market for a track car that I can put a kiddy seat in the back, that has 4x4 so I can drive it in the snow (), the GT-R *would* be on the list, but so would a *used* 997 911TT, as would a C4S, and stangely enough a Subi WRX STI...

I think the flappy paddle gear box of the GT-R would be the first thing to knock it off my list though... What can I say, rowing through the gears is fun even if it does take .05 seconds longer per shift...

TP

[evomind]

Originally Posted by turbophil

Ha, thanks

And that may be, but my question is what do the REALLY good drivers do? Drive 4 or 5 laps hard and then coast for a lap? How did they make it around the Ring at those "record times"? Must have been a cool day

i imagine they add a trans cooler and oil cooler.
not a big deal, really.
problem solved.

heck, the noble in stock form cooks the oil on a track too after a few laps.
oil cooler is imperative.

[evomind]

Originally Posted by MickOpalak

If I were in the market for a big, comfortable GT, the GT-R wouldn't even be considered. I'd go for a Merc SL AMG or Jag XKR. If I were in the market for a traditional sports car I'd stick with the Elise or an Atom or Caterham. If I were in the market for an exotic hyper car I'd go for a F430 or Lambo Gallardo LP560.

What exactly is the GT-R trying to be anyways? A jack of all trades, master of none?

i would imagine its trying to be a great street car first and foremost.
that concept seems to be lost on this forum from time to time.
does it succeed? dont know. one of the few cars i havent driven.
(or owned.. )

[slaughtr]

I was recently in the market for a comfortable (relatively) but fast car that I could take to the track if my Lotus was on fire again but also drive every day. I considered and drove a 911, Aston Martin Vantage and a GTR, among others. They all had their strong points and low points. I had fun in the GTR, and it was the lowest cost option of all I tried. It's not the prettiest, it's hulking big and I'm not a fan of paddle shifters. But I have to say, I had a blast in it at the track, FWIW.

So I bought the Rossion.

[turbophil]

BTW- The launch control is the ONE thing about the Gt-R that had me grinning ear to ear. "F" the warranty, we launched another GT-R 3 times in a row the other day. It did NOT have the new pansy Nissan launch update, so it still did the clutch drop at 4500. That GT-R also had the Cobb5 and exhaust good for 70rwhp more... That launch control is something else. It's totally violent, totally explosive, and totally intoxicating

[Surferjer]

Look, a well-prepped GTR won the OLOA this year, beating two very, very capable drivers in a GT2. So tell me again how slow the car is...?

Phil, the one you drove was probably factory set, no camber adjustments, race alignment, good track tires, uprated shocks, etc. A prepped one would have been a different experience I'm sure.

[Tracktimeplz]

Originally Posted by Surferjer

Phil, the one you drove was probably factory set, no camber adjustments, race alignment, good track tires, uprated shocks, etc. A prepped one would have been a different experience I'm sure.

Lol thats exactly what he said....

[evomind]

Originally Posted by Surferjer

Look, a well-prepped GTR won the OLOA this year, beating two very, very capable drivers in a GT2. So tell me again how slow the car is...?

Phil, the one you drove was probably factory set, no camber adjustments, race alignment, good track tires, uprated shocks, etc. A prepped one would have been a different experience I'm sure.

but then there would be nothing to rag on..

[turbophil]

Surf- I think the key is "well prepped." Imagine how disappointed you'd be if if you just purchased a GT-R and took it the track after reading the articles about the car, basically stating that it's the best auto come out since the model T, and the thing overheats 6 laps into the day? I'd expect some compomises since it's a street car first and a track car second (if that??). Given the reviews on the car, I did not expect to have to drive into the pits in Limp Home mode...

I've been exchanging emails this morning with a fellow track rat that drives a GT-R quite quickly. Apparently the tranny/engine oil heat is something many of the faster GT-R drivers are struggling with. As expected, there are aftermaket engine and tranny oil coolers out. Good news is the coolers work. Bad news is that they void the warranty (big surprise). There's also some space shuttle oil that absorbs less heat that many are using (I'd rather absorb the heat and then get rid of it through a cooler though) and they're using thicker oil as well...

Also, the car was plenty fast for the handful of laps it lasted. It just wasn't what I thought it would be after reading so much about it...

It simply will NOT turn the lap times my car will, but my car is no stocker. Make the needed tire, brake, suspension, and cooling upgrades to the GT-R and then it would be something worth driving on the track--and probably then could/would beat my car. My lotus has 3 out of 4 of those upgrades with the addition of more power as well...and power is something the GT-R doesn't really need...

TP

Edit: I'm not all down on the GT-R... Just stating some observations. I did mention the launch control, right That is one thing the mags got very right!

[evomind]

Originally Posted by turbophil

Surf- I think the key is "well prepped." Imagine how disappointed you'd be if if you just purchased a GT-R and took it the track after reading the articles about the car, basically stating that it's the best auto come out since the model T, and the thing overheats 6 laps into the day? I'd expect some compomises since it's a street car first and a track car second (if that??). Given the reviews on the car, I did not expect to have to drive into the pits in Limp Home mode...

I've been exchanging emails this morning with a fellow track rat that drives a GT-R quite quickly. Apparently the tranny/engine oil heat is something many of the faster GT-R drivers are struggling with. As expected, there are aftermaket engine and tranny oil coolers out. Good news is the coolers work. Bad news is that they void the warranty (big surprise). There's also some space shuttle oil that absorbs less heat that many are using (I'd rather absorb the heat and then get rid of it through a cooler though) and they're using thicker oil as well...

Also, the car was plenty fast for the handful of laps it lasted. It just wasn't what I thought it would be after reading so much about it...

It simply will NOT turn the lap times my car will, but my car is no stocker. Make the needed tire, brake, suspension, and cooling upgrades to the GT-R and then it would be something worth driving on the track--and probably then could/would beat my car. My lotus has 3 out of 4 of those upgrades with the addition of more power as well...and power is something the GT-R doesn't really need...

TP

Edit: I'm not all down on the GT-R... Just stating some observations. I did mention the launch control, right That is one thing the mags got very right!

needing an oil cooler and or trans cooler isnt that uncommon if youre going to track a car.
i guess you would be disappointed in an m400 that didnt have an aftermarket oil cooler? i can tell you it will cook the oil in abt 4-5 laps. and thats a track car first.

another way to cool an engine besides or in addition to an oil cooler is to have a custom oil pan made that increases the oil capacity.
i just think the problems you noted are track specific problems that are easily fixed. a few no big deals, really.

[turbophil]

Originally Posted by evomind

needing an oil cooler and or trans cooler isnt that uncommon if youre going to track a car.
i guess you would be disappointed in an m400 that didnt have an aftermarket oil cooler? i can tell you it will cook the oil in abt 4-5 laps. and thats a track car first.

Ya, I would be disapointed at jsut 4-5 laps, especially given the "track car first" part

another way to cool an engine besides or in addition to an oil cooler is to have a custom oil pan made that increases the oil capacity.
i just think the problems you noted are track specific problems that are easily fixed. a few no big deals, really.

Ya, theres's a 7 qt oil pan listed as one of the fixes as well... Also voids the warranty (again, big surprise)

Again, it's a fine street car, and just like many other street cars, it needs suspension, tires, brakes, and cooling aids... The mags and all this hype about setting the record at The Ring make it out to be track ready.......... It's just not Seems to me the Z06, for instance is a MUCH better track car for about the same money and still holds a set of golf clubs...

TP

[MickOpalak]

Originally Posted by turbophil

If I were in the market for a track car that I can put a kiddy seat in the back, that has 4x4 so I can drive it in the snow...

I'd think if someone could afford a GT-R they could afford to have a separate track car / snow car / kiddie hauler.

[robains]

Come on Phil, you just don't like the GT-R

I don't like the Vette, but I can't argue it's a potent track car and I respect them and what they've accomplished. I wouldn't pay dealer prices for a GT-R ($100K or so), but I've got a $100K wrapped up in my Lotus...

The GT-R auto tranny isn't some cheesey wanna be semi-automatic -- it's a dual clutch system where two gears are engaged at the same time where one clutch is for 1st, 3rd, 5th and second clutch is for 2nd, 4th, 6th.

But I'm willing to bet you might have a different opinion of the GT-R Spec V that is supposed to have a clutch pedal and more power and 300 lbs lighter with more oil coolers

You just love your Lotus/TVS setup and that's Ok too. These days I'm really loving my Lotus too and can't wait for next weekends track time.

Rob.

[MickOpalak]

Originally Posted by Surferjer

Look, a well-prepped GTR won the OLOA this year, beating two very, very capable drivers in a GT2. So tell me again how slow the car is...?

I don't think anyone is claiming that its slow. But there's a difference between generating impressive numbers and driving enjoyment.

[slaughtr]

Originally Posted by MickOpalak

I'd think if someone could afford a GT-R they could afford to have a separate track car / snow car / kiddie hauler.

When I was looking I was getting offers BELOW list price. Just a month or so ago. You can buy suburbans for that much, lol.

[turbophil]

I do like the Lotus, no doubt... I don't know what exactly it is that doesn't sit well with me--- I think it's the boat-like size of the car, and probably the over cooked hype that didn't come to fruition... for me, anyway... It's a good car, no doubt... But it also has mushy brakes, bad tires (and yes, they were the Dunlops), and over heats on the track...

I'm really a Porsche fan when it comes to these higher end DDs for the track enthusiast. Gimme a GT3, a TT, or or even C2S/C4S and I won't complain nearly as much

Originally Posted by robains

Come on Phil, you just don't like the GT-R

I don't like the Vette, but I can't argue it's a potent track car and I respect them and what they've accomplished. I wouldn't pay dealer prices for a GT-R ($100K or so), but I've got a $100K wrapped up in my Lotus...

The GT-R auto tranny isn't some cheesey wanna be semi-automatic -- it's a dual clutch system where two gears are engaged at the same time where one clutch is for 1st, 3rd, 5th and second clutch is for 2nd, 4th, 6th.

But I'm willing to bet you might have a different opinion of the GT-R Spec V that is supposed to have a clutch pedal and more power and 300 lbs lighter with more oil coolers

You just love your Lotus/TVS setup and that's Ok too. These days I'm really loving my Lotus too and can't wait for next weekends track time.

Rob.

[robains]

So you're a Baby got Back fan -- I like BIG butts...

[evomind]

Originally Posted by turbophil

I do like the Lotus, no doubt... I don't know what exactly it is that doesn't sit well with me--- I think it's the boat-like size of the car, and probably the over cooked hype that didn't come to fruition... for me, anyway... It's a good car, no doubt... But it also has mushy brakes, bad tires (and yes, they were the Dunlops), and over heats on the track...

I'm really a Porsche fan when it comes to these higher end DDs for the track enthusiast. Gimme a GT3, a TT, or or even C2S/C4S and I won't complain nearly as much

all nice cars, but those porsches arent exactly lightweights either.

[turbophil]

Originally Posted by evomind

all nice cars, but those porsches arent exactly lightweights either.

True. However, I was instructing on Wednesday and literally alternated back to back between the 911TT (which I just learned has 583whp- I thought it was only 550) and the GT-R every 20 minutes for 2 hours. In that situation, I got a REALLY good feel for the two cars. Each time I switched from GT-R to TT, it took all of about 30 seconds to say to myself, "ah, much better"... The 911TT drives like a Lotus does to a miata when compared to the GT-R. The sensation of being in a smaller more agile feeling car is sensed instanesously and only hightened as we went around the track. According to the mags, the lap times the two cars can achieve is about the same...and that may be. However, I'm certain the fun-factor is much greater in the P-Car...

TP