GT-R is more GT than R

[turbophil]

I do like the Lotus, no doubt... I don't know what exactly it is that doesn't sit well with me--- I think it's the boat-like size of the car, and probably the over cooked hype that didn't come to fruition... for me, anyway... It's a good car, no doubt... But it also has mushy brakes, bad tires (and yes, they were the Dunlops), and over heats on the track...

I'm really a Porsche fan when it comes to these higher end DDs for the track enthusiast. Gimme a GT3, a TT, or or even C2S/C4S and I won't complain nearly as much

Originally Posted by robains

Come on Phil, you just don't like the GT-R

I don't like the Vette, but I can't argue it's a potent track car and I respect them and what they've accomplished. I wouldn't pay dealer prices for a GT-R ($100K or so), but I've got a $100K wrapped up in my Lotus...

The GT-R auto tranny isn't some cheesey wanna be semi-automatic -- it's a dual clutch system where two gears are engaged at the same time where one clutch is for 1st, 3rd, 5th and second clutch is for 2nd, 4th, 6th.

But I'm willing to bet you might have a different opinion of the GT-R Spec V that is supposed to have a clutch pedal and more power and 300 lbs lighter with more oil coolers

You just love your Lotus/TVS setup and that's Ok too. These days I'm really loving my Lotus too and can't wait for next weekends track time.

Rob.

[robains]

So you're a Baby got Back fan -- I like BIG butts...

[evomind]

Originally Posted by turbophil

I do like the Lotus, no doubt... I don't know what exactly it is that doesn't sit well with me--- I think it's the boat-like size of the car, and probably the over cooked hype that didn't come to fruition... for me, anyway... It's a good car, no doubt... But it also has mushy brakes, bad tires (and yes, they were the Dunlops), and over heats on the track...

I'm really a Porsche fan when it comes to these higher end DDs for the track enthusiast. Gimme a GT3, a TT, or or even C2S/C4S and I won't complain nearly as much

all nice cars, but those porsches arent exactly lightweights either.

[turbophil]

Originally Posted by evomind

all nice cars, but those porsches arent exactly lightweights either.

True. However, I was instructing on Wednesday and literally alternated back to back between the 911TT (which I just learned has 583whp- I thought it was only 550) and the GT-R every 20 minutes for 2 hours. In that situation, I got a REALLY good feel for the two cars. Each time I switched from GT-R to TT, it took all of about 30 seconds to say to myself, "ah, much better"... The 911TT drives like a Lotus does to a miata when compared to the GT-R. The sensation of being in a smaller more agile feeling car is sensed instanesously and only hightened as we went around the track. According to the mags, the lap times the two cars can achieve is about the same...and that may be. However, I'm certain the fun-factor is much greater in the P-Car...

TP

[Surferjer]

I see your point, Phil. Heck, even in my Elise it's a big difference. I broke mine back down to stock 18 months ago. Last summer I strapped on some Rs for the hell of it and took it autocrossing. What a difference. The car pushed like a pig, lifted the inside rear like a dog taking a piss and was generally miserable compared to the car I had prepped for nationals. So yeah, any bone stock car will have it's warts...

[robains]

911TT is 3495 to 3572 lbs (pending options) -- agile? Ok so now you're comparing a modified 583 wHP 911 TT to a bone stock GT-R. Think I'll have to smack you on head for that one.

Prior to having milled steering arms, my Lotus understeered like a pig, heat soaked almost instantly, and died on long left handers ... soooo

[evomind]

Originally Posted by turbophil

True. However, I was instructing on Wednesday and literally alternated back to back between the 911TT (which I just learned has 583whp- I thought it was only 550) and the GT-R every 20 minutes for 2 hours. In that situation, I got a REALLY good feel for the two cars. Each time I switched from GT-R to TT, it took all of about 30 seconds to say to myself, "ah, much better"... The 911TT drives like a Lotus does to a miata when compared to the GT-R. The sensation of being in a smaller more agile feeling car is sensed instanesously and only hightened as we went around the track. According to the mags, the lap times the two cars can achieve is about the same...and that may be. However, I'm certain the fun-factor is much greater in the P-Car...
TP

im sure for you that is the case. but as ive said many times b4, "fun" is a subjective term. i have found other cars i have had just as much "fun" and sometimes more than when i had my lotus. depends.....
to me, stuff like miatas and mini coopers arent much fun to drive.....thats me.
ive driven a 911tt around a track. i was impressed. almost TOO "gt," but i really really liked my zo6 too.
some folks dont have room nor the budget for a second sports/performance car. they buy one car that they drive everyday. not everyone is a car fanatic. perhaps for those folks something like the gtr is a good choice.

[turbophil]

Originally Posted by robains

911TT is 3495 to 3572 lbs (pending options) -- agile? Ok so now you're comparing a modified 583 wHP 911 TT to a bone stock GT-R. Think I'll have to smack you on head for that one.

Prior to having milled steering arms, my Lotus understeered like a pig, heat soaked almost instantly, and died on long left handers ... soooo

Naw, it wasn't the power... and for the record, power was his only mod. They're both fast cars in a straight line, albeit the 911TT was waay faster yet... It's handling and feel thing. The 911T just feels like a nat compared to the GTR...---- and the 911TT didn't OVERHEAT after 5 laps

[robains]

$76K vs $130K + cost to get 583 wHP -- I sure hope it doesn't overheat.

Anyway, I think you get the point -- Apples vs. Oranges -- or maybe more accurately Pineapple vs. Peach.

[turbophil]

Naw- The GT-R guy paid about 95 and was on a waiting list for a year... That has to be worth something--- and it over heated... Did I mention that?

[choi0706]

fwiw, the gtr 4wd system has always been lackluster.. nearly all the track/race setup GTRs convert to RWD.. it's more of a street car driver,average joe.. I've driven R32/R33/R34 and it's all the same.. R34 was the better one of the set though, it wouldn't plow once tq was split up front..

Speaking of Dual clutch gearboxes,
I test drove a 09 Jetta TDI DSG yesterday and was very impressed with the shifting/smoothness.. But NOT impressed with the throttle lag, after some hard spirited (averaged 19mpg on a diesel, and smoking brakes ) driving up and down a mountain road the gearbox didn't seem to be bothered by it.. granted, it's much different on a track but I believe the VW DSG works pretty good..

[evomind]

Originally Posted by turbophil

Naw- The GT-R guy paid about 95 and was on a waiting list for a year... That has to be worth something--- and it over heated... Did I mention that?

i see your point and if you dont like a car, any car, for any reason thats your right.
but to go on and on about an overheat issue that a simple 300 dollar oil cooler would fix is silly.
(i know u mentioned warranty issues, if youre that concerned then dont track it....i know some lotus owners who have had warranty issues for a lot less)
hell, if i kept my m400 i would have had to install an oil cooler as they are not delivered with one. and to think, the m400 was supposed to be a gift from god to racetracks the world over...
i havent found the perfect car yet....

[maz]

its pretty ****ty to overheat someone elses car. that happened to me once. i had an instructor doing "orientation laps" at gingerman IN MY EXPLORER!!! and he ruined my brakes. For what? To be a hero?

you should be ashamed of yourself.

[turbophil]

maz- LOL... The student is a long time friend of mine... He wasn't picking up the lines and wanted to see what the car would do. I showed him both... The car was "smart enough" to shut itself down, as I explained... Don't make a mountain out of mole hill. I'm pretty respectful (perhaps overly so) of people's cars and typically only drive at about 4/10s (just fast enought to show them the lines and braking zones) when I'm behind some else's wheel

FWIW- I DO know what you're saying. I let a fellow instructor drive my Lotus last year and he ran it off the course and mowed over a bunch of cones, scratch my splitter all to hell, etc Instructors should be there to instruct, not wreck other folks' cars. The case with me driving the pants off the GT-R was unique...

Best,

TP

[turbophil]

Originally Posted by evomind

i havent found the perfect car yet....

Amen!

[Surferjer]

Originally Posted by turbophil

maz- LOL... The student is a long time friend of mine... He wasn't picking up the lines and wanted to see what the car would do. I showed him both... The car was "smart enough" to shut itself down, as I explained... Don't make a mountain out of mole hill. I'm pretty respectful (perhaps overly so) of people's cars and typically only drive at about 4/10s (just fast enought to show them the lines and braking zones) when I'm behind some else's wheel

FWIW- I DO know what you're saying. I let a fellow instructor drive my Lotus last year and he ran it off the course and mowed over a bunch of cones, scratch my splitter all to hell, etc Instructors should be there to instruct, not wreck other folks' cars. The case with me driving the pants off the GT-R was unique...

Best,

TP

I don't know, Phil. You sound like a rat bastard to me

[slaughtr]

Originally Posted by Surferjer

I don't know, Phil. You sound like a rat bastard to me

We've all known that for years.

[turbophil]

I'm trying to be better. I'm even taking a class

[wantanelise]

Originally Posted by MickOpalak

I'd think if someone could afford a GT-R they could afford to have a separate track car / snow car / kiddie hauler.

which mean's no one would actually want a GTR....