Mini Cooper S JCW package vs S2000

[gameson]

Just curious, assuming the drivers have same skill (let say alonso in one, schumacher in another, you get what i mean.. ), then which car will take the cup?

[smoseley]

Originally Posted by gameson

which car will take the cup?

They both have cupholders.

[fpitas]

I'll admit I haven't studied the Mini very much, but I think the S2000 will still out-accelerate and out-handle it, if this is the Mini you're talking about: http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-200...er-S-Works.htm

[dakotan50sw]

If your really interested talk to Randy or Brian @Webb motor sport's - Denver Co. Tuner for both Mini and Lotus. Has a video's when you get to his site showing you what a Mini can do with him driving against some impressive car's and competion, far superior to the S 2000. Will give you a lot of respect for the Cooper!

[JimK]

My guess is that the numbers don't tell the whole story. I'm betting the Cooper JCW will have a more usable power-band and will therefore be faster
on the track.

[Cardinal]

I've driven my father's JCW Mini a handful of times. The thing handles like a go-kart... lots of fun. I would bet it's great in the twisties vs an S2000.

[Buz]

If both cars are stock the S2000 would win except maybe an autocross.

[BladeRunner]

Everytime I hear someone rant about how well a Mini corners I want to laugh. Clearly its great for a front wheel drive car, but compared to a RWD (let alone a mid-engined car), it doesn't stand a chance on a real race track.

Auto-x maybe, but it really depends on the course

But Mini's do look great, esp. with a Union Jack on the Roof

[kyohan03]

Originally Posted by BladeRunner

Everytime I hear someone rant about how well a Mini corners I want to laugh. Clearly its great for a front wheel drive car, but compared to a RWD (let alone a mid-engined car), it doesn't stand a chance on a real race track.

Auto-x maybe, but it really depends on the course

But Mini's do look great, esp. with a Union Jack on the Roof

No offense meant, but before laughing maybe you should drive one for yourself and see what the ranting is all about.

The truth is, the original fwd Mini with its small motor and 12 inch wheels routinely walked away from rwd cars in the classes in which it raced, and could run with rwd cars with much greater power.

The current Mini does have some of the fwd handling quirks, to be sure, but by reviewers it is often considered to have very much a rwd feel in many handling respects.

Again, don't knock it unless you've driven it. It sticks very, very well.

[Buz]

I have driven Minis and it is the best handling fwd car I have driven. A high speed road course needs power and balance. The S2000 wins on both by a wide margin.

[gameson]

Originally Posted by fpitas

I'll admit I haven't studied the Mini very much, but I think the S2000 will still out-accelerate and out-handle it, if this is the Mini you're talking about: http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-200...er-S-Works.htm

Yes, that's the Mini JCW I am talking about, a $6000 option you can get from factory. Both are stock. I am thinking of S2000 will win hands down as I drive them a lot, but never driven a Mini before, so I don't know.

[xtn]

This last weekend my cousin went with me to an HPDE in his S2000. It was the first time for both of us. We were in the "green" group. A couple of Cooper Ses were in our group, and he would tear them up.

Disclaimer #1: There are a lot of variables to be found in a beginner group, so it doesn't necessarily say anything about the ultimate capability of either vehicle.

Disclaimer #2: His particular S2000 is supercharged and has Tein coilovers, chassis braces, etc., so it doesn't necessarily say anything about the ultimate capability of either vehicle in stock condition.

Basically I'm trying to hijack this thread subtly, by spouting what looks to be relevant info but really doesn't tell us anything, in an attempt to just shout out how much friggin fun I had this last weekend!

xtn

[BladeRunner]

Originally Posted by kyohan03

No offense meant, but before laughing maybe you should drive one for yourself and see what the ranting is all about.

Again, don't knock it unless you've driven it. It sticks very, very well.

Actually, I have driven several Minis, and yes, they are far superior to virtually every other fwd car on the market. But in terms of sheer cornering ability (especially at the limit), my 1994 MR2 would blow a Mini into the weeds.

Fwd driving dynamics are simply limited by physics, and no matter how well-tuned/set-up etc., are simply incapable of matching Rwd cars of similar power/weight ratio and set-up.

W/respect to the original Mini - wow, they were/are fantastic, but so were/are the original Lotus Elans, which like the Minis can run with and beat much more powerful cars

[Ram]

A stock S2000 is faster than the most modified Cooper S Minis I've seen on track, given a very tight track layout. I think that means they'll be faster than the JCW from the factory.

[John Stimson]

I've driven a MINI with the Sport Suspension Plus, and handling-wise, it's no S2000. I thought it was great compared to the Civic, Corrolla, and Protege, but to be honest the handling was about as responsive as my stock Miata on tall snow tires (which is what I drove to the dealership for the test drive). Sure, it's much quicker on the autocross course than its specs would suggest.

However, if you want to talk about objective results, check out how the JCW MINI is classed for SCCA autocross. It's in B Stock, and nobody is eager to run them against the RX-8. The S2000 is in the next class up, and is one of the three favored cars in that class.

Autocross is just about the most handling-intensive motorsport in the US. Moving up to road courses, whichever car has better power/weight, power/drag, and raw lateral grip, will gain advantage as the tracks get larger and more open. I don't know how the JCW MINI (or the lightweight version) does in terms of power/weight, but I doubt it's got the edge in lateral grip (limited front camber, front-heavy weight distribution). If the MINI is faster on the track with the same level of driver, it's because of power/weight.

JCW MINI: 2678 Lbs, 214 HP = 12.5 Lb/HP
S2000: 2850 Lbs, 238 HP = 12.0 Lb/HP

[JimK]

John, I just noticed your signature, PD Cunningham fan, too?
BTW, I have no doubt that an S2000 with Comptech's blower would/will
shred almost everything else out there (including a stock Elise/Exige).
I think a stock S2000 vs. JCW Cooper match-up is going to depend alot on the size of the track and the skill of the driver.

[xtn]

My cousin has the Comptech setup along with a bunch of suspension and chassis mods on his S2000. He wasn't keeping up with me in my Exige on the track. Of course, we are both beginners so it doesn't say anything about the cars.

xtn

[John Stimson]

Jim: No, Douglas Adams!

I am talking about a stock S2000 vs a stock Works MINI. On an autocross course, the MINI is slower. In a straight line, they would be about even, but the MINI would give up quite a bit on the launch. I can't think of any reason why the MINI would gain an advantage for any scenario in between (ie, road courses).

If I wanted to give the MINI as much advantage as possible, I would design a course with long 60-foot slaloms going out and back, linked with 30-MPH 180 degree turns at both ends, so that the MINI could show its slaloming prowess and exploit its torque advantage. Maybe the cars would be about even on such a course.

[Beanie]

They say the JCW package goodies are overpriced and one can buy the same things (e.g. pulley) elsewhere and save, but then you will be sacrificing warranty and resale value because you have customized it yourself. Last time I "built my own" Mini without the JCW it was about $29K, so I could quickly turn a fun little affordable car into something I'd have to compare to other cars without all the add-ons as well as some seriously good low mileage used cars such as Elise. It becomes difficult to decide unless a car just strikes you as being THE one to have, doesn't it? Anyway, Mini Cooper S (w/out JCW) is at the top of my short list for the next car I buy because of its basic appeal, sportiness, affordability, and the likelihood that it world became my daughter's first car in 2-3 years (cuteness, quality (AFAIK), and available side airbags influence that).

[Domino]

Originally Posted by Beanie

... Anyway, Mini Cooper S (w/out JCW) is at the top of my short list for the next car I buy because of its basic appeal, sportiness, affordability, and the likelihood that it world became my daughter's first car in 2-3 years (cuteness, quality (AFAIK), and available side airbags influence that).

I just ordered one. It should be here late Nov / early Dec. I had the same thinking... my son is 9 years old now so my wife will drive the MCS (and I will too if she lets me) for 6 years and then it'll be his. Only thing I'm concerned about is that it's a little fast for a teenager's 1st car. Gonna have to take him to some good driving schools.

I rented one for a week just to make sure we liked it and it was great. Probably the best fwd handling car I've ever driven.