Mini Cooper S vs Mazdaspeed 3 vs Cobalt SS

[Socal_4_LYfe]

Originally Posted by tvacc

oh...and we have a 99 Anniversary edition Miata. I like the Miata...but it is no Elise. I would take the MINI S over the Miata if you want a smooth driving experience...if you want a drop top...the Miata.

Hmm, that's interesting. I rode in the R56 MCS and it seemed like an okay ride. Nothing to fancy or fun, IMO. My uncle had a Miata for his first car and still to this day says it is the funnest car he has ever had.

Maybe it just has to do with expectations or driving style. All I know is that the Miata is an iconic sports car while the R56 MCS is stuck between being a sporty transport and being an oversized, tall, small wheeled ( and small spaced), death trap. Seriously, why has Mini/BMW, put such thin wheels on the MCS? Is it to cut costs or is there another reason?

[Phx Cobra]

It would be a hard toss up between the Mini and the Mazda. However having driven both, the Mini was tons of fun and awesome to toss around yet still have decent control. Not very fast but I would say "peppy". The supercharger sounds awesome though.
The Mazda was awesome as well, and the turbo was fun.
Put a decent set of wheels and some wider tires on the mini and it rips it up at the track.

[Monsi]

Originally Posted by Phx Cobra

It would be a hard toss up between the Mini and the Mazda. However having driven both, the Mini was tons of fun and awesome to toss around yet still have decent control. Not very fast but I would say "peppy". The supercharger sounds awesome though.
The Mazda was awesome as well, and the turbo was fun.
Put a decent set of wheels and some wider tires on the mini and it rips it up at the track.

isnt that what the elise is for tho?

[Zerofail]

I had a first gen 02 MCS that I used as an everyday commuter car for nearly 5 years. Other than a few small mechanical issues right out of the gate the car was fantastic. The only thing that turned out to be somewhat of a hassle is the upright nature of the windscreen. The car collected windshield chips like they were going out of style. By the time I traded the car off I had 6 star/chip repairs and two windshield replacements. None however were caused by the "mysterious" windshield issue that some folks were trying to get fixed under warranty.

All in all the MCS was a great experience.

[Phx Cobra]

Originally Posted by Monsi

isnt that what the elise is for tho?

I think you are right.

But I am not questioning why I have the elise instead.

[keinayo]

Well, did anyone remember that I have an MS3 for sale?

Here is a link to the ebay auction. it is on consignment, so I can decide at which price it is sold:

eBay Motors: Mazda : Mazda3 (item 260275001434 end time Aug-21-08 08:34:12 PDT)

The reserve is $18,500, and I am willing to split the shipping costs with you to LA (it is $650 total, so $325 is your shippign costs).


By the way, reason for sale was that I needed AWD

Any finally, I do have a Mazda Miata 91 with the Flyin miata turbo on it.

[sponge]

Originally Posted by PhlypSide

WRX would be nice to add to the mix, or a Legacy GT (turbo 5spd of course).

If you don't need extra seats/storage, you could also get a Miata or a lightly used Toyota MR-S.

I love my Legacy...I am on my second now I opted for the wagon this time around and love it...if you can swing the cost the SpecB is quite nice for the 6 speed but I would save the cast and get a year or two old one. VERY mod friendly...

Good luck with your search! Drive a Legacy GT

[Exigent]

R32 for the exhaust note.
GTI if you want 4 doors and FWD.
R53 MCS if you want affordable fun.
R56 MCS if you can wait and want it new.

MS3 - nah.
Cobalt - No way.

btw - for 2009, Audi is finally giving us a 2.0T A3 with quattro. Another good (although expensive) choice.

[lttletimmy]

Originally Posted by Viggen

I thought some of the mini people I know were talking down on the newest mini with it being a little bigger & that the interior wasn't built as well as the one they presently own. Seems like most of the people I have met who own a mini aren't to fond of the latest version.... I am not referring to the one's back in the 60-70's, but the 2 generations that BMW has produced

I think I get what you mean, and there has been a bit of a rebellion against the new R56 mini by some R53 devotees. I own the R56 and love it, and feel like it's built to a higher standard than the R53s. Also, the only R53s I've run into at the track besides GPs and one particular 300hp highly modified one have not been able to hold a candle to my near stock R56.

Anyhow, I would definitely cast a vote for the R56, much faster and I feel like its better made, the only minus is that the steering feel isn't quite up to par with the R53, but other than that I feel it's vastly superior

[NCZ06]

Originally Posted by lttletimmy

I think I get what you mean, and there has been a bit of a rebellion against the new R56 mini by some R53 devotees. I own the R56 and love it, and feel like it's built to a higher standard than the R53s. Also, the only R53s I've run into at the track besides GPs and one particular 300hp highly modified one have not been able to hold a candle to my near stock R56.

Anyhow, I would definitely cast a vote for the R56, much faster and I feel like its better made, the only minus is that the steering feel isn't quite up to par with the R53, but other than that I feel it's vastly superior

I think all these R53 die hards are suffering from new-generation-inferioritis. This is a common disease among automotive enthusiasts where they refuse to accept the superiority of the new generation of a car which they currently own. They cling desperately to any trait of their older generation car which they believe to be superior and when all else fails they call the new generation ugly!

I test drove an R53 when I was shopping for my MINI and honestly I didn't really like it. The supercharged engine took until about 3000 RPM to start making any usable power and even when it did it wasn't that fast. The ride quality was much worse than my R56, although I guess some enthusiasts associate poor ride with good handling. I feel that the R56 has a much better ride handling balance. The steering ratio on the R53 was quicker, but it was a little bit much for a daily driver. The fuel economy is also far superior on the R56. The R56 is clearly the better daily driver, but I think it will take a while for the R53 die-hards to warm up to it.

[tvacc]

Originally Posted by NCZ06

The supercharged engine took until about 3000 RPM to start making any usable power and even when it did it wasn't that fast. The ride quality was much worse than my R56, although I guess some enthusiasts associate poor ride with good handling. I feel that the R56 has a much better ride handling balance. The steering ratio on the R53 was quicker, but it was a little bit much for a daily driver. The fuel economy is also far superior on the R56. The R56 is clearly the better daily driver, but I think it will take a while for the R53 die-hards to warm up to it.

I agree with everthing you say here. I could have bought either....although I had not driven the new car when I ordered my 2006 in Ocotober 2006. I had a 2004 and my son has the 2005.

I was happy when I drove the 2007 car(R56) as all the things I liked about the MINI were absent for me in the 2007 car. I HATE the central speedo. I got the instrument pack on both my MINIs that puts the speedo right in front of you, where it should be. It is not available on the R56. I also like the quick steering of the R53. Feels more like a sports car from the 60's. Almost like the old BMW 2002. And I am not that crazy about the interior. I was not concerned about the power of the R56 being more than the R53 as that is why I have the Elise. The MINI is my daily driver.

So basically, all of the most driver related things that meant the most to me they changed on the R56. Changes that I do not like. I think they missed the boat...watered down the sports car like nature of it.

The R56 is not a bad car....just for me the R53 is much more of what I want and like in a car.

[Socal_4_LYfe]

Today I went to look at cars. I looked at the Mazdaspeed 3, the Nissan Altima, and the BMW 135i.

Firstly the MS3,

My mom absolutely hated the styling of the speed. Plus, the salesman said that a 36mo lease with 3k down and good credit will yield a ~$400 lease. That puts the car well out of the preferred price range.

Next the Altima,

If I remember correctly this car is considered to be one of the worst cars of 2008. Regardless of what the magazines say, it has a 5 star crash test rating and is available to lease for $199/mo x 36mo. Plus, my mom likes the styling of the Altima much more than that of the speed.

Lastly, the 135i,

I went to see this car because if I'm going to possibly be paying ~400/mo than I might as well get a luxury car. Guess what, the 135i coupe standard options goes for a $800 lease! So that is certainly out of the question.

So, now I ask, should I just settle for the Altima and save my money for a P-car or possibly an RS5?

[tvacc]

I just spent the last 6 days driving a new Mini S. I had to take one of mine (2005 S) in for service....(brakes all around under warranty). They had to get parts shipped in.

Now it was an automatic...and that was fine. I think it was faster then my 2006 . But in my opinion it has lost the feel I have with my 2006. As many of you know I had a Caterham for 13 years...and the 2006 drives like the Caterham...the 2008 does not.

And I could not stand the center speedo...I have the instrument pack in both my Mini's which puts the speedo right in front of you.

Just my opinion.....

[RichS]

Originally Posted by Socal_4_LYfe

...Blah, blah, blah lease. Blah, blah, blah...

One of the least intelligent things that a 17 year old college student could do is lease a new car. What the hell does a 17 year old college student need to pay for the depreciation on a new car for? (Lease = LET ME PAY FOR THE DEPRECIATION ON THIS NEW CAR PLEASE.)

You should be buying a very, very used car. Think 200,000 mile station wagon. For $1500. You should be happy that you have it.

Now for the 4 years that you are in college, save the $400/month. Now when you graduate you'll have $20,000 to put down on a new car. And you'll have a job where you can afford to pay for the rest of a new (to you if you are smart) car. In 4 years you'll probably be able to pick up a nicely used Elise for not much more than $20K.

[Socal_4_LYfe]

Originally Posted by RichS

One of the least intelligent things that a 17 year old college student could do is lease a new car. What the hell does a 17 year old college student need to pay for the depreciation on a new car for? (Lease = LET ME PAY FOR THE DEPRECIATION ON THIS NEW CAR PLEASE.)

You should be buying a very, very used car. Think 200,000 mile station wagon. For $1500. You should be happy that you have it.

Now for the 4 years that you are in college, save the $400/month. Now when you graduate you'll have $20,000 to put down on a new car. And you'll have a job where you can afford to pay for the rest of a new (to you if you are smart) car. In 4 years you'll probably be able to pick up a nicely used Elise for not much more than $20K.

If only my mom subscribed to this logic. I have begged her to allow me to get a 94 miata again and again. I've shown her all kinds of safety devices from roll bars to full on roll cages. She still won't budge.

Her logic is that I am not a mechanic and used cars = major engine problems. This has been her experience when she was my age dealing with US cars.

She only wants me to get a new car because of warranty. I'm not afraid to drive an altima if it means a better car in the future and less out the wallet now.

Any ideas to convince her that used cars do not always = scam/lemon/major engine problems??

[Socal_4_LYfe]

Okay, so my mom has a friend who owns a body shop and says he has a bunch of 2001 mustangs that he can get me for cheap. My mom likes the idea. Anything in particular for or against the 2001 mustang?

[tmr]

Okay, so my mom has a friend who owns a body shop and says he has a bunch of 2001 mustangs that he can get me for cheap. My mom likes the idea. Anything in particular for or against the 2001 mustang?

Better check on the insurance costs for a 17-year-old on these cars. Is it a V-8 or a V-6? Could be a big difference in that regard. I looked at new Mustang V-8's when I was 30, as our 2nd child was on the way and I needed to get out of my 911SC daily driver vs. something with a back seat for two kids. My insurance agent told me that the rates for the Mustang were higher than my then 6-year-old 911 due to the number of accidents Mustangs were involved in. Also, reliability is not so good compared to the Japanese brands.

You should be buying a very, very used car. Think 200,000 mile station wagon. For $1500. You should be happy that you have it.

Now for the 4 years that you are in college, save the $400/month. Now when you graduate you'll have $20,000 to put down on a new car. And you'll have a job where you can afford to pay for the rest of a new (to you if you are smart) car. In 4 years you'll probably be able to pick up a nicely used Elise for not much more than $20K.

As a father of two college students, I agree with this statement 100%. Neither my son nor my daughter are car enthusiasts, so they drive 1997 and 2003 Camrys, respectively. Reliable, economical, inexpensive to insure, and will take them through their college years if treated right. Even if a Camry isn't your speed, think used mainstream Japanese for your college years.

Check out the cars in your price range on autotrader.com or similar sites, check the CARFAX to weed out the obvious ones, pay a competent shop to do an independent inspection, and drive it for the next five years. Tell your mom to put the savings aside for repairs and get to know a good mechanic. You'll appreciate that new car more once you're out of college and more mature.

One more thing. Cars take a beating on most college campuses, so I wouldn't get anything too nice. My son's first car (1994 Accord) took multiple hits in parking lots and was forced into another car by a campus bus. It was finally totalled after getting rear-ended by a high school girl in a Toyota who was talking on her cell phone at the time. Getting something with a few dings/dents in it will just save you the agony later on.

Just my two cents....

PS: Even if the R56 drives better and for the most part is better than the R53, I agree with Tony that the giant central speedo is a deal breaker. Also, it really is ugly compared with the R53.

[Exigent]

I prefer the R53. The steering is better, I enjoy the supercharger whine, and the styling is much better. I like the exterior of the R53 better and the interior (I also hate the giant center speedo and have the chrono package in it's place) much better.



No way would I pay MSRP for a new R56 when I could have a very clean '05 or '06 R53 for less.

FWIW, fans of auto design might know that Frank Stephenson designed the R53 MINI for BMW. He also did the original X5. He then went to Maserati and designed the Quattroporte and the MC12, and then to Alfa Romeo where he is credited with 8C and the MiTo. I just read that he's just joined McLaren and will be responsible for the design on the next McLaren supercar.

[tvacc]

Originally Posted by Exigent

I prefer the R53. The steering is better, I enjoy the supercharger whine, and the styling is much better. I like the exterior of the R53 better and the interior (I also hate the giant center speedo and have the chrono package in it's place) much better.

No way would I pay MSRP for a new R56 when I could have a very clean '05 or '06 R53 for less.

I fully concur 100%

[RichS]

Originally Posted by Socal_4_LYfe

She only wants me to get a new car because of warranty.

Kia Rio: $11,650 with a 10 year warranty.

Kia Rio - Kia Motors America

But MUCH MUCH better is a 10 year old used car. You are in college, get a beater. I'd personally go with a very used wagon. You can always throw a few blankets in the back and go somewhere to have some fun with a chick. Ask me how I know...

Oh, BTW, your mother isn't very knowledgeable about cars. The LAST thing that a college student needs is a brand new car to worry about. You older car breaks down? No biggie, someone will always be around to give you a ride. A college campus is just about the most 'walk friendly' and 'anti-car' environment there is. A new car on a campus is a silly, silly thing.