Just finished testing new Intake manifold with great results - LotusTalk - The Lotus Cars Community
 
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Old 01-23-2009, 09:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Just finished testing new Intake manifold with great results

Houston Garage engineering FTMFW - Not bad for a couple of guys with a bigass belt sander

For those of you who don't know I have been working with Littlerocket on developing a bolt-on intake manifold for the 2ZZ for almost a year now. We started on the flowbench and we finally finished a prototype and got it to the dyno today. Here are the results of today's dyno testing. To make a long story short we made 23 HP peak and over 35 at the old lift transition. There is no power dip on with the manifold so its kind of hard to tell but the new lifttransition is at 4600 RPM. This is the same car, same day same dyno - we never even unstrapped it off the dyno since the intake is very easy to swap from above. JesseIL was in town for work and came by and he was present the whole time as an independent observer and he also helped out with the Power FC tuning (thanks Jesse!)

The car used is Littlerockets GTS. Its a stock junkyard motor he put in when he hydrolocked the other motor a few months ago. It has about 75K on it and it uses a bit of oil. (went through between 1/2 and 3/4 quarts on the dyno today). It has a stock header that I ported, a straight pipe with no cat and a Magnaflow muffler. The engine itself is bone stock and actually seems pretty weak so the overall numbers for before and after would probably have been considerably higher on a healthy one, let alone one with head work and cams and a racing header. The before numbers are a stock intake and TB. The after numbers are out prototype intake and Q45 throttle body. We expect to be able to further improve the numbers with the production intake by probably 4 or 5 HP. (The prototype has the runners attached to the plenum with soft rubber couplers which we couldn't keep from sagging that resulted in misalignment - we had to do this to allow us to change teh runner length for testing. This is the STREET intake manifold - it clears the Celica hood with no problem. One component will be relocated and the appropriate bracket will be included in the kit.

We were unable to determine the full capabilities of the new intake manifold because, while we did have 440cc injectors on the car, we maxed out the stock fuel pump at about 190 HP so we never bothered to shorten the runner length to see what power we could make with a higher torque peak.

Without further ado here is the dyno - I will post more information about the days activities further down in the post.

Our manifold Versus stock with a Power FC - same tune, same dyno, same day:


Our Manifold Versus stock with a Power FC - both fully tuned for that setup, same dyno same day



The intake is made form heavy gauge aluminum and features a CNC head flange, CNC intake bells, Computerized mandrel bent runners, CNC plenum end, CNC IAC mount & throttle cable mount, etc.

Last edited by Boosted2.0; 04-27-2009 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 01-23-2009, 09:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Oh - DD performance stands for Dave and David (thats me and littlerocket)

We spent about an hour and a half trying to get the best possible numebrs on the stock setup before we switched to the new intake. Here are the before and after results for that tuning:





And here are more zoomed in Graphs that show the difference in torque and HP between the tuned stock intake and our tuned prototype intake:








We spent over 2 1/2 hours tuning the new intake with (obviously) good results. There is definitely still room for improment though and we will make another trip to the dyno as soon as possible with a new fuel pump and see what kind of damage we can do if we move the torque peak from 6800 up to 8000. We anticipate over 200 HP.

Based on the HP to CFM gains ratio for the intake we did some ricer math, and with stage 3 piper cams, this intake and TB and a P&P head and a race exhaust like the PPE we anticipate that over 240 WHP should be possible. With increases in comrpession ratio and the introduction of race gas we estimate that 270 WHP may be possible.
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
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David, just read all of it over at NewCelica - awesome work!

Do you think it would help us supercharged guys at all?

BTW, PM me your email when you get a chance.

WooHoo!

-David
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Old 01-24-2009, 06:34 AM   #4 (permalink)
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David, just read all of it over at NewCelica - awesome work!

Do you think it would help us supercharged guys at all?

BTW, PM me your email when you get a chance.

WooHoo!

-David
Only if the blower isn't mounted with the Greddy or Lotus style mounting. The manifolds for those applications have the mounting built into them.
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:32 AM   #5 (permalink)
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nice going dave.
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Old 01-24-2009, 08:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I just read over your post on newcelica and I have to say you have done a great job. Not being the biggest fan of FI, this is a great way to boost the power from an NA engine for a reasonable amount of money.

I have a couple of questions though:
With an '05 Elise, will this manifold be compatible with the stock Lotus ECU or are we going to need a retune?

Will the manifold be compatible with the stock TB or do we have to switch to Nissan TB you were using on the Celica?

Will a lot of intake parts have to be relocated if we can still use our stock TB and airbox?

If we have to switch to the Nissan TB, are we able to use the stock air box and intake hose or will these parts need to be relocated, resized, or simply exchanged for a CAI?

Will this manifold along with any other modifications pass a simple smog test (simple ECU download) or will there be code/CEL problems?

TIA for your answers to these questions and again, this is a great breakthrough for us NA guys.
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:54 AM   #7 (permalink)
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tesprit asked my questions..

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Old 01-24-2009, 05:40 PM   #8 (permalink)
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it will only work on rotrex blowers.. nothing that uses a roots type..
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Old 01-24-2009, 06:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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it will only work on rotrex blowers.. nothing that uses a roots type..
damn! this was my next part.
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Old 01-24-2009, 08:51 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by tesprit View Post
I just read over your post on newcelica and I have to say you have done a great job. Not being the biggest fan of FI, this is a great way to boost the power from an NA engine for a reasonable amount of money.

I have a couple of questions though:
With an '05 Elise, will this manifold be compatible with the stock Lotus ECU or are we going to need a retune?

Will the manifold be compatible with the stock TB or do we have to switch to Nissan TB you were using on the Celica?

Will a lot of intake parts have to be relocated if we can still use our stock TB and airbox?

If we have to switch to the Nissan TB, are we able to use the stock air box and intake hose or will these parts need to be relocated, resized, or simply exchanged for a CAI?

Will this manifold along with any other modifications pass a simple smog test (simple ECU download) or will there be code/CEL problems?

TIA for your answers to these questions and again, this is a great breakthrough for us NA guys.
I have noooo idea how the stock Lotus ECU is going to like this. Theoretically with the stock TB it should be OK - I don't know about the 84 mm one though. The stock TB will fit with the use of an adaptor plate.

If you use the Q45 TB you will want to use a 3" CAI to take full advantage of the flow. Better to suck through a bigger hose when you can. If you use the stock TB then the airbox / air hose will need to be moved to fit properly.

Some parts will need to be relocated - we need to check on a few things before we know for sure which ones. We WILL be making one to fit the Lotus even if it means a slight re-design or more parts relocated.

This should pass smog fine as long as you use the stock TB.




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Originally Posted by choi0706 View Post
it will only work on rotrex blowers.. nothing that uses a roots type..
Correct, unless you work out a remote mounting for the roots charger, like on the back of the engine below the header or something.
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:06 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info!

Assuming the stock TB is used with the adapter plate, how much and in which direction will the original airbox have to be moved? There isn't a lot of room to move the airbox around in that area. The main reason I would want to retain the stock airbox is that for some reason people seem to have a lot of CEL/code problems when using CAIs on the Lotus.

Again, this looks great and I am looking forward to seeing how the fitment on a Lotus goes.
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info!

Assuming the stock TB is used with the adapter plate, how much and in which direction will the original airbox have to be moved? There isn't a lot of room to move the airbox around in that area. The main reason I would want to retain the stock airbox is that for some reason people seem to have a lot of CEL/code problems when using CAIs on the Lotus.

Again, this looks great and I am looking forward to seeing how the fitment on a Lotus goes.
I don't know for sure how much it will need to move - I will have to test fit it to say for sure.

I think we might see if Charlie is interested in making a tune for a 3" CAI, 440cc injectors and a race header with this intake and the Q45 TB
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Old 01-25-2009, 12:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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+100 !! yes yes - package that all up together with hardware, tune, and dyno data.

...that would be a true n/a solution! and i think there would be a good # of interested parties.

the hardware is the real trial and error hard part, and the tune is the magic to make it work. the dyno data demonstrates what the real value is.
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:17 PM   #14 (permalink)
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i'm up for it, might be in houston over at sgp racing sometime
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:19 PM   #15 (permalink)
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i'm up for it, might be in houston over at sgp racing sometime
I'll be there !
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:22 PM   #16 (permalink)
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if you want a socal car... i am in san diego - w/ ff street header.
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Old 01-25-2009, 01:25 PM   #17 (permalink)
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will only work on rotrex blowers.. nothing that uses a roots type
I like the sound of that.
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
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i'm up for it, might be in houston over at sgp racing sometime
Sweet. That would be a huge Boon to the NA guys.

Whats the most common race header out there? Still the forcedfed?



Oh - Frank is getting one for his Exige as well.
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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heh, am i shocked?

I have the forcedfed, but i'd say the 2bular/tubular one is the one i see the most.
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Old 01-25-2009, 02:43 PM   #20 (permalink)
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PPE is popular so is 2ubular
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