Stock Paper Air Filter VS K&N: PIC and TEST - LotusTalk

Stan · 10-07-2004, 10:50 AM

Here is the stock 111R paper air filter next to the K&N drop-in option PN 33-2252. The filter was purchased for about 45 dollars over the counter. Our airbox appears to derive from one of the Toyota Matrix models using our engine, and not the Toyota Celica GT-S. Celica air filters are a couple inches smaller in the long direction.

It's a bit harder to close the box on the K&N as the flange is a hair less compressible than the stock piece, but it can be done after a few attempts. You have to use one arm under the hood and one under the wheel arch to make it happen. You also have to be careful that the composite air tube that leads to the vent on the side of the Elise stays pressed onto the airbox entry tube. So check that before you wrap things up. It might be easier for some to close the box if you detach that tube...it is fastened to the top of the airbox with one plastic screw-exanded fastener.

I like to test stuff using onboard dataloggers so I ran the car up a slightly uphill onramp starting from the same spot twice. I had the meter measure me from 40-60 MPH in 2nd gear. About 45 minutes later I did the same thing but with the K&N in place. Same clear weather but a few degrees warmer. Same pre-drive conditions before the tests. The K&N seemed to help a small amount. At least in this test it helped over a broad RPM range and added about 1-2 HP. I used a Race Technology AP-22 for this test. You can read about them at their site.

Second Gear Speed To Speed Test, Stock VS K&N

Run#--------------Stock--------Stock-------K&N--------K&N
40-50sec/feet----1.39/91------1.37/90----1.37/90-----1.37/90

50-60sec/feet----1.21/189----1.21/188---1.20/187---1.20/187

40-60sec-----------2.60---------2.58--------2.57--------2.57

Notice how when you set the meter up to do a speed to speed run there is little run to run variation. The launch and shifting are out of the picture as the car was in 2nd gear in this speed range. In fact you just drive off normally but briskly in such a test so there is no extra wear and tear going on and noone knows you are doing anything. If a stock and a K&N car were next to one another it looks like the K&N version could very slightly pull on the other car.

Stan · 10-07-2004, 11:09 AM

BTW, 40-60 MPH in 2nd Gear corresponds to about 5000-7500 RPMs. More benefit is likely to be seen in the 7500 to 8600 range but I did not test this...and it's not a five minute thing to swap filters on this car! You have to jack up the car, remove the driver's side rear wheel/tire, and then the wheel well liner. That way you can access the airbox properly.

NtflBlueLiz · 10-07-2004, 11:13 AM

Sounds like a pretty good mod for the money.

How does the G-tech compare to the AP-22?

Stan · 10-07-2004, 11:14 AM

>>>Sounds like a pretty good mod for the money. How does the G-tech compare to the AP-22?<<<

One is a toy, one is a tool.

evomind · 10-07-2004, 11:35 AM

ok, ill bite stan....
why is the ap-22 a toy??
it seems to be pretty much the same thing as a g-tech or g-tech pro....
seems they both use the same technology...
anyways im happy with my gtech pro. as long as the way they calculate is consistent, they serve their purpose.
im sure either brand is fine.

Stan · 10-07-2004, 11:42 AM

>>>ok, ill bite stan.... why is the ap-22 a toy?? it seems to be pretty much the same thing as a g-tech or g-tech pro.... seems they both use the same technology... anyways im happy with my gtech pro. as long as the way they calculate is consistent, they serve their purpose. im either brand is fine.<<<

Well I have like 6-7 of these devices, including the G-Tech Pro Comp. It's a toy compared to the Race Technology Stuff. The higher end stuff from R-T includes data logging, GPS combined with accelerometers, storage on compact flash cards, etc and they are still reasonably priced. The software works, is available and keeps getting better. And it's useable fro several of their products.

If you check out the associated softare you use to crunch the raw data you'll note that you can draw track maps, and check all sorts of things out. Here's an example:

http://www.race-technology.com/WebPa...twareHome.html

I have the AP-22 and the DL90 from them. I'd like to trade in the DL90 for the new DL1. It adds quicker updating GPS, compact flash storage, more ins/outs and other things. Both of the DL90 and DL1 can be wired into a vehicle and pick up all sorts of driving related things such as throttle positions, brake pressure, steering angle acompanying the track map and actual car performance data.

Stan · 10-07-2004, 11:46 AM

I did a bit of number crunching and see that when you are not already on the high cam, it comes in at about 49.6 MPH. So 40-50 was done basically on the low cam. And 50-60 basically on the high cam. You can get a sense of the difference in output associated with the two speed ranges.

Stan · 10-08-2004, 05:05 AM

If you look at the 1ZZ versus 2ZZ dyno curve, you might guess that had this 40-60 been done using a 1ZZ, our more powerful motor might not have dominated...

1ZZ 1.8 liter VS 2ZZ 1.8 Liter Dyno...

J-Son · 10-08-2004, 05:11 AM

i cant belive you have to remove a wheel to replace an air filter!

Stan · 10-08-2004, 05:24 AM

Pulling a wheel for the air filter swap? Check out changing headlight bulbs!!! This car has lots of nooks and crannies to keep us busy...

J-Son · 10-08-2004, 05:26 AM

hopefully the headlights wont blow.
i cant remember the last time i had a headlight blow....probably on one of my cars from the 1970's.

zvezdah1 · 10-08-2004, 05:47 AM

I think LotusYellow said you can change the headlight bulbs by turning the wheel.

Chris

Dan · 10-08-2004, 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zvezdah1
I think LotusYellow said you can change the headlight bulbs by turning the wheel.

Chris

That's what I did when I did a headlight alignment.

cixelsyd · 08-18-2005, 04:01 PM

Closing the box at the end of this install is not too difficult if you have an extra pair of hands... one person to put the inside end of the airbox together while the other person closes the metal tabs on the outside end.

Notice that the airfilter is polarized, and has two cutouts on the top edge that correspond to tabs in the plastic airbox. Although more difficult to swap than the airfilter on, say, a 1967 ford mustang, this is not a difficult job to do. After the wheel and wheel-well cover are removed, closing the box is the only tricky bit.

My stock airfilter was completely full of small pebbles and stuff after 11,000 miles... I wonder if the dealership actually checked the status of the filter at the 1,000 or 7,500 mile services they performed. I doubt it, the idea that it became that choaked with small rocks and dirt in less than 4k miles is difficult to believe!

-=cixelsyd

PS. This filter cost me $50 at my local auto parts shop.

doma · 08-23-2005, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cixelsyd

...
My stock airfilter was completely full of small pebbles and stuff after 11,000 miles... I wonder if the dealership actually checked the status of the filter at the 1,000 or 7,500 mile services they performed. I doubt it, the idea that it became that choaked with small rocks and dirt in less than 4k miles is difficult to believe!

My dealer replaced my filter at 7,500. Said it was clogged up. It's probably time for another one - but my local Kragan's doesn't carry the K&N for our car.

Icedog_16 · 08-23-2005, 10:11 AM

Did you ask for one for the Elise? They probably won't specifically have that one. But they might have one for the Matrix, which will work in the Elise as it says above. Worst case, buy online.

Stan · 08-23-2005, 10:38 AM

>>>my local Kragan's doesn't carry the K&N for our car.<<<

You don't ask for the Lotus Elise K&N....you ask for the K&N # 33-2252. I did all the research way back when, last September roughly IIRC. That PN works just fine and is specified for the Toyota Matrix air filter box which our cars appear to utilize.

ct_mazi · 08-23-2005, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stan

>>>my local Kragan's doesn't carry the K&N for our car.<<<

You don't ask for the Lotus Elise K&N....you ask for the K&N # 33-2252. I did all the research way back when, last September roughly IIRC. That PN works just fine and is specified for the Toyota Matrix air filter box which our cars appear to utilize.

There is one for Lotus elise listed in summitracing.com part # KNN-33-2672, but i think that the size is suspect.

Icedog_16 · 08-23-2005, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ct_mazi

There is one for Lotus elise listed in summitracing.com part # KNN-33-2672, but i think that the size is suspect.

Yeah, I don't think that will work. Here's a link to a list of vehicle applications for that filter - http://www.knfilters.com/search/appl...x?Prod=33-2672

khamai · 08-23-2005, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ct_mazi

There is one for Lotus elise listed in summitracing.com part # KNN-33-2672, but i think that the size is suspect.

OEM - Denso/Toyota #17801-22020

2672 is incorrect -
33-2672 Product Specifications
Product Style: Panel Air Filter
Height: 0.875 in (22 mm)
Outside Length: 10.625 in (270 mm)
Outside Width: 6.813 in (173 mm)
Cross ref to TOYOTA 1780102030 & TOYOTA 1780115070

Compared to the correct one:
33-2252 Product Specifications
Product Style: Panel Air Filter
Height: 0.938 in (24 mm)
Outside Length: 11.375 in (289 mm)
Outside Width: 5.938 in (151 mm)
Cross ref to TOYOTA 178010D020
TOYOTA 178010D070
TOYOTA 1780122020

Kiyoshi

10-07-2004, 10:50 AM	#1 (permalink)
Stan - Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,947	Stock Paper Air Filter VS K&N: PIC and TEST Here is the stock 111R paper air filter next to the K&N drop-in option PN 33-2252. The filter was purchased for about 45 dollars over the counter. Our airbox appears to derive from one of the Toyota Matrix models using our engine, and not the Toyota Celica GT-S. Celica air filters are a couple inches smaller in the long direction. It's a bit harder to close the box on the K&N as the flange is a hair less compressible than the stock piece, but it can be done after a few attempts. You have to use one arm under the hood and one under the wheel arch to make it happen. You also have to be careful that the composite air tube that leads to the vent on the side of the Elise stays pressed onto the airbox entry tube. So check that before you wrap things up. It might be easier for some to close the box if you detach that tube...it is fastened to the top of the airbox with one plastic screw-exanded fastener. I like to test stuff using onboard dataloggers so I ran the car up a slightly uphill onramp starting from the same spot twice. I had the meter measure me from 40-60 MPH in 2nd gear. About 45 minutes later I did the same thing but with the K&N in place. Same clear weather but a few degrees warmer. Same pre-drive conditions before the tests. The K&N seemed to help a small amount. At least in this test it helped over a broad RPM range and added about 1-2 HP. I used a Race Technology AP-22 for this test. You can read about them at their site. Second Gear Speed To Speed Test, Stock VS K&N Run#--------------Stock--------Stock-------K&N--------K&N 40-50sec/feet----1.39/91------1.37/90----1.37/90-----1.37/90 50-60sec/feet----1.21/189----1.21/188---1.20/187---1.20/187 40-60sec-----------2.60---------2.58--------2.57--------2.57 Notice how when you set the meter up to do a speed to speed run there is little run to run variation. The launch and shifting are out of the picture as the car was in 2nd gear in this speed range. In fact you just drive off normally but briskly in such a test so there is no extra wear and tear going on and noone knows you are doing anything. If a stock and a K&N car were next to one another it looks like the K&N version could very slightly pull on the other car. Last edited by Stan; 05-16-2005 at 06:34 AM.

10-07-2004, 11:13 AM	#3 (permalink)
NtflBlueLiz Registered User Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 1,198	Sounds like a pretty good mod for the money. How does the G-tech compare to the AP-22? __________________ 2005 Nightfall Blue

10-08-2004, 05:11 AM	#9 (permalink)
J-Son Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: long island NY Posts: 548	i cant belive you have to remove a wheel to replace an air filter! __________________ 2005 Ardent Touring Elise, 2007 Hummer H3, 2007 Infiniti Fx35, 2006 Infiniti M35x (sold), 2002 Audi TT quattro convertible (sold), 1999 Corvette (sold but not forgotten),

10-08-2004, 05:26 AM	#11 (permalink)
J-Son Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: long island NY Posts: 548	hopefully the headlights wont blow. i cant remember the last time i had a headlight blow....probably on one of my cars from the 1970's. __________________ 2005 Ardent Touring Elise, 2007 Hummer H3, 2007 Infiniti Fx35, 2006 Infiniti M35x (sold), 2002 Audi TT quattro convertible (sold), 1999 Corvette (sold but not forgotten),

10-08-2004, 05:47 AM	#12 (permalink)
zvezdah1 eliseaholic! Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: georgia Posts: 6,773	I think LotusYellow said you can change the headlight bulbs by turning the wheel. Chris __________________ Chris Club111 #3 06 Solar yellow/Touring/Traction Ctrl/Blk Whl Pkg/Strshld

10-07-2004, 11:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
Stan - Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,947	BTW, 40-60 MPH in 2nd Gear corresponds to about 5000-7500 RPMs. More benefit is likely to be seen in the 7500 to 8600 range but I did not test this...and it's not a five minute thing to swap filters on this car! You have to jack up the car, remove the driver's side rear wheel/tire, and then the wheel well liner. That way you can access the airbox properly.

10-07-2004, 11:14 AM	#4 (permalink)
Stan - Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,947	>>>Sounds like a pretty good mod for the money. How does the G-tech compare to the AP-22?<<< One is a toy, one is a tool.

10-07-2004, 11:35 AM	#5 (permalink)
evomind J. Caesar Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: chicagoland Posts: 5,502	ok, ill bite stan.... why is the ap-22 a toy?? it seems to be pretty much the same thing as a g-tech or g-tech pro.... seems they both use the same technology... anyways im happy with my gtech pro. as long as the way they calculate is consistent, they serve their purpose. im sure either brand is fine.

10-07-2004, 11:42 AM	#6 (permalink)
Stan - Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,947	>>>ok, ill bite stan.... why is the ap-22 a toy?? it seems to be pretty much the same thing as a g-tech or g-tech pro.... seems they both use the same technology... anyways im happy with my gtech pro. as long as the way they calculate is consistent, they serve their purpose. im either brand is fine.<<< Well I have like 6-7 of these devices, including the G-Tech Pro Comp. It's a toy compared to the Race Technology Stuff. The higher end stuff from R-T includes data logging, GPS combined with accelerometers, storage on compact flash cards, etc and they are still reasonably priced. The software works, is available and keeps getting better. And it's useable fro several of their products. If you check out the associated softare you use to crunch the raw data you'll note that you can draw track maps, and check all sorts of things out. Here's an example: http://www.race-technology.com/WebPa...twareHome.html I have the AP-22 and the DL90 from them. I'd like to trade in the DL90 for the new DL1. It adds quicker updating GPS, compact flash storage, more ins/outs and other things. Both of the DL90 and DL1 can be wired into a vehicle and pick up all sorts of driving related things such as throttle positions, brake pressure, steering angle acompanying the track map and actual car performance data.

10-07-2004, 11:46 AM	#7 (permalink)
Stan - Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,947	I did a bit of number crunching and see that when you are not already on the high cam, it comes in at about 49.6 MPH. So 40-50 was done basically on the low cam. And 50-60 basically on the high cam. You can get a sense of the difference in output associated with the two speed ranges.

10-08-2004, 05:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
Stan - Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,947	If you look at the 1ZZ versus 2ZZ dyno curve, you might guess that had this 40-60 been done using a 1ZZ, our more powerful motor might not have dominated... 1ZZ 1.8 liter VS 2ZZ 1.8 Liter Dyno...

10-08-2004, 05:24 AM	#10 (permalink)
Stan - Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,947	Pulling a wheel for the air filter swap? Check out changing headlight bulbs!!! This car has lots of nooks and crannies to keep us busy...

08-18-2005, 04:01 PM	#14 (permalink)
cixelsyd COM Court Jester Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: upstate NY Posts: 268	K&N Closing the box at the end of this install is not too difficult if you have an extra pair of hands... one person to put the inside end of the airbox together while the other person closes the metal tabs on the outside end. Notice that the airfilter is polarized, and has two cutouts on the top edge that correspond to tabs in the plastic airbox. Although more difficult to swap than the airfilter on, say, a 1967 ford mustang, this is not a difficult job to do. After the wheel and wheel-well cover are removed, closing the box is the only tricky bit. My stock airfilter was completely full of small pebbles and stuff after 11,000 miles... I wonder if the dealership actually checked the status of the filter at the 1,000 or 7,500 mile services they performed. I doubt it, the idea that it became that choaked with small rocks and dirt in less than 4k miles is difficult to believe! -=cixelsyd PS. This filter cost me $50 at my local auto parts shop. __________________ Night life guide and other things to do in New York City! Limited Slip Mafia member since Dec 2005; COM member since Oct 20th, 2004. 2005 Southern New York SCCA SS Championship: second place. "The passenger seat is smaller than the driver's seat, and it is bolted in place. It is there where you tell someone, 'There is your spot; keep your elbows out of the way and hold on.'" ---Lotus Cars USA spokesman Colin Price

08-23-2005, 10:11 AM	#16 (permalink)
Icedog_16 I drank what?!? Join Date: May 2005 Location: Tampa, FL Posts: 4,220	Did you ask for one for the Elise? They probably won't specifically have that one. But they might have one for the Matrix, which will work in the Elise as it says above. Worst case, buy online.

08-23-2005, 10:38 AM	#17 (permalink)
Stan - Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 6,947	>>>my local Kragan's doesn't carry the K&N for our car.<<< You don't ask for the Lotus Elise K&N....you ask for the K&N # 33-2252. I did all the research way back when, last September roughly IIRC. That PN works just fine and is specified for the Toyota Matrix air filter box which our cars appear to utilize.

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