WARNING: Track Guys, Check Your Exhaust Systems - Page 3 - LotusTalk

dvl boy · 10-24-2008, 10:24 AM

There have been 3 exhaust issues in Portland this year. One involving a cracked cat, a large fire, and a large warranty claim; One onvolving the O2 sensor weld breaking and sending fire out the back of the car, and the last involving heat expansion and back preasure separating all the fittings on the exhaust creating noise distortion and soot damage. The last two were mine and my father's Exige S's. Lotus has a serious problem, and from what I have heard they are looing at not warranty(ing) any exhaust issue for cars that have been to DE days or have been driven hard....ECU downloads. I have been told by Lotus insiders to change the engine mounts and "adjust" the exhaust. IE... replumb a custom job with rubber mounts and open the back end up. This doesn't allow a warranty, but if you are at DE days, warranty usually isn't the main concern. We also both wear nomex suit, gloves, hoodie, sock, shoes and have extinguishers...mainly because fire hurts. BE AWARE of your exhaust systems!

Bane · 10-24-2008, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plastique999

I am naked....what engine mounts do you recommend...there are a few out there.

My Larini SE keeps tipping south...assuming it's loose, and need to check it.

I put the inserts in from the group buy in the parts for sale forum and they are great.

ducboy · 10-24-2008, 11:09 AM

I installed the Manly Motor Mounts. Highly recommended! It's an easy install, and there are other benefits to be had like smoother shift.

Here's the link --> Lotus Elise Exige Engine Mount Inserts

Smoky · 10-24-2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DPM

Please PM me with a sound clip of that thing. :-)

lotusdriver2001 · 10-24-2008, 06:27 PM

Just maybe the clamps on the muffler and exhaust are sort of analogous to the rear toe links. I check the clamps every time I change the oil and check the rear toe links. I did have a bit of a rattle for a while and found it to be one of the rivets in the shealding had come out and the rattle was the shielding itself. I have found the exhaust clamps loose twice and it was directly where the soot was found on the inside of the diffuser... pretty easy to trace to the clamp. In almost 75,000 miles I have found the clamp loose twice, one of the times the exhaust had moved a little causing a minor leak. It is an after market muffler. For most of us simply checking three things per oil change might be in order.

jim-clayton · 04-19-2009, 04:56 PM

bump

Elise fire at Sebring this weekend. U-bend came loose from the cat.

Similar result to what's been pictured.

5qf3764b · 04-19-2009, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishguy

just throwing this out there as an idea.
what if naca ducts and some tubing were installed on the rear clam itself to provide some airflow to vent the rear end.
I have a home made brake duct venting system on the spec 944 i just bought, and the previos owner says it makes a huge difference. maybe something simple like this could be applied in this instant as well.

This sounds like a good use of the blocked air scoop on the NA Exige. Anyone have any idea how to make it work to take air from this port down to the exhaust area?

choi0706 · 04-19-2009, 09:24 PM

ive seen a diffuser loose its factory black paint and discolored the alumn from the stock exhaust.. not only that is all the brackets have also lost all their paint from the heat..

cstetter · 04-19-2009, 11:39 PM

I have a FF275 kit with their header, cat, and exhaust. It is tuned quite richly to keep temps down and yet I still started to melt the trunk floor when I was running a track day with back-to-back sessions. I forgot to take the trunk carpet and foam out and I do not have a rear panel eliminator (yet). Nothing came lose on my car but it still started to melt just from the exhaust and header heat.

I have now decided to get a rear panel eliminator (even though I don't care much for the look) and I will get some additional heat shielding installed.

Be careful out there, guys!

IamBatman · 04-20-2009, 12:06 AM

how about just cutting some holes in the wheel liner behind the rear wheels to vent the heat? invisible and easy to do.

wrapping the entire length of the exhaust with some high temp insulation (its not that long) can't hurt either

choi0706 · 04-20-2009, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choi0706

ive seen a diffuser loose its factory black paint and discolored the alumn from the stock exhaust.. not only that is all the brackets have also lost all their paint from the heat..

WTR · 04-20-2009, 05:25 AM

[quote=shinoo;1037063]There have been a spate of exhaust failures on the racetrack with stock AND aftermarket systems recently. I am encouraging all y'all to check your systems on a regular basis for problems. Last week, I spoke with 2 owners and know of 3 cars that suffered failures and fires.

I have seen this situation as well. All the more reason to install a set of Sector 111 Track Mounts!!! The fore/aft torque-induced rotational movement of the engine and transaxle is a HUGE contributing factor to this problem as well. Combine this scenario with heavy heat loading and it's no wonder that there is metal fatigue. This is especially true higher horsepower cars with, or without, aftermarket exhausts.

good2go · 04-20-2009, 06:37 AM

I'm sorry to hear such occurrences and problems from the stock exhaust system.

I've recently added the Manley motor mount which completely minimized the engine vibration during shifting and created much improved throttle response - completely impressive. Furthermore, I have ceramic coated Motorwerks headers, decat, Von Hep exhaust with side exit, panel delete and heat shield removed. My mechanic checked all the bolt and fittings when he installed the motor mount, just before the track day at SOW. I drove hard all day at the track. Afterward, I checked the exhaust system again and it was still solidly secured with no loosen bolts. There's a lot of open space and air circulation without the rear panel!

Someone suggested additional airflow directly into engine to further cool the exhaust system. I've contemplated about purchasing this expensive piece from Esta International:

Lotus Elise S2 Carbon Fiber Air Intake / S2 CF Air Intake

From their website, a lotustalk member had purchased and installed it. Any opinion or comment?

Bane · 04-20-2009, 12:52 PM

Just to add a bit of information... the mil-spec coating I put on the PPE headers makes a WORLD of difference in terms of heat management.

My boot used to get so hot with the stock header that I could barely touch the carpet buttons in there.

Now it was cool to the touch after a track day and after sitting in traffic in 90 degree heat.

This applies to all exhaust systems so even if you aren't using my setup I highly recommend the coating...

def · 04-20-2009, 02:47 PM

I installed the manly engine mount inserts, and a new lotus sport clamp.

I feel like I should be OK. Hopefully I didn't previously (before I had the inserts) crack or weaken the area around the Cat. Haven't noticed any soot.

Hot days at thunderhill over this summer still have me worried, though.

LarryB · 04-20-2009, 02:55 PM

Speaking of Thuderhill, def did you make it out. If so how did car and driver do?

I'm a wimp and will not drive Thunderhill in summer. Heck a fall or spring day in the mid 80's is hot enough with a helmet on. Laguna or Sears Point are my summer tracks... we are spoiled in that sense, in NorCal.

def · 04-20-2009, 03:00 PM

Yep made it out, had a lot fun. Not too many lotus there (5?), luckily two co-workers headed up with a new m3 and new evo x, so I had some company. Got signed off and OK to move up to B next time, so I guess I was doing something right. Only thing is I missed a couple heel/toe downshifts (almost entering the turn in neutral) so I will need to work on that while braking hard (different from the street). My lines and smoothness seem to be "amazing for someone's first track day".

Had a hairy moment with a yellow elise passing me during warm up lap on the inside of turn 7 (point by required there, and no passing on warm up lap), luckily I was paying attention and didn't cut in. I was stuck in traffic anyways so not sure why he passed. Didn't meet the owner.

A different yellow elise (advanced driver), I thought this exhaust problem happened as his car appeared on fire, but I guess it was engine problems (katana kit?), and nothing more than white smoke occured luckily (Didn't meet the driver).

Unfortunately an older lotus elan broke down during one of our sessions, not sure what the problem was there.

Krug1 · 04-20-2009, 03:05 PM

I just had a Weapon R header installed. Today when I went to pick up the old parts, I noticed that they did not reinstall any of the heat shields. The guy that did the installation said there wasn't any room and something about the heat shield not being able to bolt to the header??? Does this sound correct? Also, I noticed already due to the stock exhaust, a very small area about the size of a dime seems to have been melted through my diffuser prior to the header install. Should I be concerned about melting/fire and excessive heat. Keep in mind that I don't plan on tracking my car, at least not right now.
They said they could wrap the header, which may be the route to go, but I wish they would have brought this to my attention sooner. I am not going to be real pleased to have to pay more money to someone to do work that could have been done in the first place. There goes another hundred$$$.

Like to hear you all's input

Andy

aschen · 04-20-2009, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davecarama

I may be experiencing one of the early signs. I am getting a vibrating sound when I am letting my clutch out and start moving (it stems from engine vibration, but sounds like a cat or exhaust thing).

Dave

Did anybody ever come up with a solution to this problem? I have had it for a long while and would like to get it sorted out.

AES

LarryB · 04-20-2009, 03:25 PM

Andy-
Have the Forced Fed street header and sport cat. Being stainless steel, they seem to run as cool or more so then the stock ones. Yup the heat shield that was in the bend no longer fits. Did go ahead and wrap that area. In comparing temps (on the clam shell) to a stock Elise after a mildly aggressive back road drive, was slightly cooler.

In your case, I'd be more concern about taking a closer look / fixing that spot that has melted.

def- glad to hear it. The autocross back ground, helps. Then again you seem to be more of a natural.

10-24-2008, 10:24 AM	#41 (permalink)
dvl boy Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 50	3 in PDX There have been 3 exhaust issues in Portland this year. One involving a cracked cat, a large fire, and a large warranty claim; One onvolving the O2 sensor weld breaking and sending fire out the back of the car, and the last involving heat expansion and back preasure separating all the fittings on the exhaust creating noise distortion and soot damage. The last two were mine and my father's Exige S's. Lotus has a serious problem, and from what I have heard they are looing at not warranty(ing) any exhaust issue for cars that have been to DE days or have been driven hard....ECU downloads. I have been told by Lotus insiders to change the engine mounts and "adjust" the exhaust. IE... replumb a custom job with rubber mounts and open the back end up. This doesn't allow a warranty, but if you are at DE days, warranty usually isn't the main concern. We also both wear nomex suit, gloves, hoodie, sock, shoes and have extinguishers...mainly because fire hurts. BE AWARE of your exhaust systems!

10-24-2008, 11:09 AM	#43 (permalink)
ducboy Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: St. Louis Posts: 167 Images: 1	I installed the Manly Motor Mounts. Highly recommended! It's an easy install, and there are other benefits to be had like smoother shift. Here's the link --> Lotus Elise Exige Engine Mount Inserts __________________ 1996 Ducati 916 Strada Nichols Flywheel, Motowheels Slipper clutch, Arrow Titanium Exhaust, lots of CF bits 2007 Exige S265 PoB, Touring, Track, TC, LSD, SS, Gotham tune, Larini 6" Club Sport, Sector eliminator; 55W DDM HID; Manly Motor Mounts, Carbon Splitter, Braille, Sector Tow Hooks, Multivex 2008 VW Rabbit 2.5 (daily driver) 2008 Ford F-150 5.7 4x4 (hauler)

10-24-2008, 06:27 PM	#45 (permalink)
lotusdriver2001 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Manteca, CA Posts: 71	Perhaps for most of us this is pretty easy Just maybe the clamps on the muffler and exhaust are sort of analogous to the rear toe links. I check the clamps every time I change the oil and check the rear toe links. I did have a bit of a rattle for a while and found it to be one of the rivets in the shealding had come out and the rattle was the shielding itself. I have found the exhaust clamps loose twice and it was directly where the soot was found on the inside of the diffuser... pretty easy to trace to the clamp. In almost 75,000 miles I have found the clamp loose twice, one of the times the exhaust had moved a little causing a minor leak. It is an after market muffler. For most of us simply checking three things per oil change might be in order.

04-19-2009, 04:56 PM	#46 (permalink)
jim-clayton Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Fort Lauderdale Florida Posts: 1,625	bump Elise fire at Sebring this weekend. U-bend came loose from the cat. Similar result to what's been pictured. __________________ 2005 Elise Storm Titanium

04-19-2009, 09:24 PM	#48 (permalink)
choi0706 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Houston/Austin Posts: 4,206	ive seen a diffuser loose its factory black paint and discolored the alumn from the stock exhaust.. not only that is all the brackets have also lost all their paint from the heat.. __________________ Jay-05' ST, HT, Touring Red Rally Ready

04-19-2009, 11:39 PM	#49 (permalink)
cstetter Nothing witty to say Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 1,443	I have a FF275 kit with their header, cat, and exhaust. It is tuned quite richly to keep temps down and yet I still started to melt the trunk floor when I was running a track day with back-to-back sessions. I forgot to take the trunk carpet and foam out and I do not have a rear panel eliminator (yet). Nothing came lose on my car but it still started to melt just from the exhaust and header heat. I have now decided to get a rear panel eliminator (even though I don't care much for the look) and I will get some additional heat shielding installed. Be careful out there, guys!

04-20-2009, 12:06 AM	#50 (permalink)
IamBatman Exige? SEXIGE! Join Date: May 2006 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,607 Images: 1	how about just cutting some holes in the wheel liner behind the rear wheels to vent the heat? invisible and easy to do. wrapping the entire length of the exhaust with some high temp insulation (its not that long) can't hurt either __________________ Phantom Black 2007 Exige S221.56436. All options. Black 01' Mustang Cobra 'Vert ("some" modifications) daily driver Facebook group: Add lightness...and Darkness!

04-20-2009, 05:25 AM	#52 (permalink)
WTR William Thomas Roadsters Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Frenchtown, NJ Posts: 80	[quote=shinoo;1037063]There have been a spate of exhaust failures on the racetrack with stock AND aftermarket systems recently. I am encouraging all y'all to check your systems on a regular basis for problems. Last week, I spoke with 2 owners and know of 3 cars that suffered failures and fires. I have seen this situation as well. All the more reason to install a set of Sector 111 Track Mounts!!! The fore/aft torque-induced rotational movement of the engine and transaxle is a HUGE contributing factor to this problem as well. Combine this scenario with heavy heat loading and it's no wonder that there is metal fatigue. This is especially true higher horsepower cars with, or without, aftermarket exhausts.

04-20-2009, 06:37 AM	#53 (permalink)
good2go Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Downtown LB, California Posts: 497	I'm sorry to hear such occurrences and problems from the stock exhaust system. I've recently added the Manley motor mount which completely minimized the engine vibration during shifting and created much improved throttle response - completely impressive. Furthermore, I have ceramic coated Motorwerks headers, decat, Von Hep exhaust with side exit, panel delete and heat shield removed. My mechanic checked all the bolt and fittings when he installed the motor mount, just before the track day at SOW. I drove hard all day at the track. Afterward, I checked the exhaust system again and it was still solidly secured with no loosen bolts. There's a lot of open space and air circulation without the rear panel! Someone suggested additional airflow directly into engine to further cool the exhaust system. I've contemplated about purchasing this expensive piece from Esta International: Lotus Elise S2 Carbon Fiber Air Intake / S2 CF Air Intake From their website, a lotustalk member had purchased and installed it. Any opinion or comment?

04-20-2009, 12:52 PM	#54 (permalink)
Bane . Join Date: May 2005 Location: AZ Posts: 2,960 Images: 4	Just to add a bit of information... the mil-spec coating I put on the PPE headers makes a WORLD of difference in terms of heat management. My boot used to get so hot with the stock header that I could barely touch the carpet buttons in there. Now it was cool to the touch after a track day and after sitting in traffic in 90 degree heat. This applies to all exhaust systems so even if you aren't using my setup I highly recommend the coating... __________________ $599 PPE header (INFO) 2007 BMW 335i - Mostly stock un-Official LotusTalk Stealth Bulb provider *6* sets in stock!

04-20-2009, 02:47 PM	#55 (permalink)
def ...ault Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 2,599	I installed the manly engine mount inserts, and a new lotus sport clamp. I feel like I should be OK. Hopefully I didn't previously (before I had the inserts) crack or weaken the area around the Cat. Haven't noticed any soot. Hot days at thunderhill over this summer still have me worried, though. __________________ //kevin - 05 Graphite Gray - Red Touring / LSS / Starshield / Stage 2 + more

04-20-2009, 02:55 PM	#56 (permalink)
LarryB Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NorCal Posts: 3,099	Speaking of Thuderhill, def did you make it out. If so how did car and driver do? I'm a wimp and will not drive Thunderhill in summer. Heck a fall or spring day in the mid 80's is hot enough with a helmet on. Laguna or Sears Point are my summer tracks... we are spoiled in that sense, in NorCal.

04-20-2009, 03:00 PM	#57 (permalink)
def ...ault Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mountain View, CA Posts: 2,599	Yep made it out, had a lot fun. Not too many lotus there (5?), luckily two co-workers headed up with a new m3 and new evo x, so I had some company. Got signed off and OK to move up to B next time, so I guess I was doing something right. Only thing is I missed a couple heel/toe downshifts (almost entering the turn in neutral) so I will need to work on that while braking hard (different from the street). My lines and smoothness seem to be "amazing for someone's first track day". Had a hairy moment with a yellow elise passing me during warm up lap on the inside of turn 7 (point by required there, and no passing on warm up lap), luckily I was paying attention and didn't cut in. I was stuck in traffic anyways so not sure why he passed. Didn't meet the owner. A different yellow elise (advanced driver), I thought this exhaust problem happened as his car appeared on fire, but I guess it was engine problems (katana kit?), and nothing more than white smoke occured luckily (Didn't meet the driver). Unfortunately an older lotus elan broke down during one of our sessions, not sure what the problem was there. __________________ //kevin - 05 Graphite Gray - Red Touring / LSS / Starshield / Stage 2 + more

04-20-2009, 03:05 PM	#58 (permalink)
Krug1 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 96	Weapon R I just had a Weapon R header installed. Today when I went to pick up the old parts, I noticed that they did not reinstall any of the heat shields. The guy that did the installation said there wasn't any room and something about the heat shield not being able to bolt to the header??? Does this sound correct? Also, I noticed already due to the stock exhaust, a very small area about the size of a dime seems to have been melted through my diffuser prior to the header install. Should I be concerned about melting/fire and excessive heat. Keep in mind that I don't plan on tracking my car, at least not right now. They said they could wrap the header, which may be the route to go, but I wish they would have brought this to my attention sooner. I am not going to be real pleased to have to pay more money to someone to do work that could have been done in the first place. There goes another hundred$$$. Like to hear you all's input Andy

04-20-2009, 03:25 PM	#60 (permalink)
LarryB Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: NorCal Posts: 3,099	Andy- Have the Forced Fed street header and sport cat. Being stainless steel, they seem to run as cool or more so then the stock ones. Yup the heat shield that was in the bend no longer fits. Did go ahead and wrap that area. In comparing temps (on the clam shell) to a stock Elise after a mildly aggressive back road drive, was slightly cooler. In your case, I'd be more concern about taking a closer look / fixing that spot that has melted. def- glad to hear it. The autocross back ground, helps. Then again you seem to be more of a natural.

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