2007 Exige S Intercooler Air Flow Study

[ocelot27]

Originally Posted by wildwhl

John -

far too many year$ $pent with model airplane$ to admit thi$ - but at the designed *thrust* levels the motors have relatively short lifespans. Certainly not suitable for continuous use on a car. Then you need to drive the controller...but i digress...

WW

Good point. I drove my car pretty hard tonight - it always seems faster when cool. The RLS IC definitely helps enormously but the weakness is the lack of airflow to the IC with the factory design... got my Spal controller today... now I need to get everything to fit and with that I would warn people about mounting fans on aft side of the IC - you could definitely run into issues with the strut. I've removed mine entirely but no fans will safely clear the engine cover with the current motor mounts - the engine moves like 2-3 inches.... fans going on front side of IC sans duct.

-john.

[jerrym]

interesting thread

[ocelot27]

Anyone know what the four wires are on the IAT - there's orange, blue, brown and yellow. TIA - john.

[wildwhl]

Yes...

http://www.ontronic.com/products/doc/Sensors.pdf

Forget the part number...but you're looking at it!

WW

[ocelot27]

Originally Posted by wildwhl

Yes...

http://www.ontronic.com/products/doc/Sensors.pdf

Forget the part number...but you're looking at it!

WW

Call me a tart but I looked at that PDF and it seems to only describe the thermistor part (two leads) but there are four leads going into the housing of the IAT (Bosch part# 0 261 230 042). I would take my multimeter to it but there's no good access to the leads because of the environmental seals - can you simply tell me which colors are what? Or simply which lead provides the variable voltage from the thermistor? Also what's the most convenient source of +12v (ignition on) to tell the fan controller when the ignition/engine's on and off - my guess is that one of the leads going into the IAT is +12V? - TIA - john.

here's the image from my engine:

[Mag]

ok cars all set up. the issue with the temp differences had to do with technical problems with the gauges. Laptop temps are accurate. Will do a test tomorrow and log the data.

Close up of thermocouple. these things are really cool.



Attached to scoop entry.



sensor inlet side






IAT and other obd2 parameters via Innovate OT1 and AF ratio via Innovate LC1.

[jkolb]

Not intended as a hijack, but what would be the effect of a malfunctioning temperature sensor in the intercooler? In other words, is mixture leaned or or made more rich with increases in inlet temperature?

Jerry

[wildwhl]

John -

You are a tart.


That link is about (xxx) pages long. Look for page 37, connector configuration #3 (or diagram #3).

There are (also) 2 fuse blocks in the engine bay. I simply probed the leads until I found one that was +12V key on for the relay/fan control.

Signed,

your fellow tart.

WW

[ocelot27]

Originally Posted by wildwhl

John -

You are a tart.


That link is about (xxx) pages long. Look for page 37, connector configuration #3 (or diagram #3).

There are (also) 2 fuse blocks in the engine bay. I simply probed the leads until I found one that was +12V key on for the relay/fan control.

Signed,

your fellow tart.

WW

Ahhhh - I missed that page - silly me just going by the index. So in my pic it would be the orange wire, right? The fuse blocks are above the ECU correct? - john.

[ocelot27]

Originally Posted by Mag

ok cars all set up. the issue with the temp differences had to do with technical problems with the gauges. Laptop temps are accurate. Will do a test tomorrow and log the data.

Close up of thermocouple. these things are really cool.



Attached to scoop entry.



sensor inlet side






IAT and other obd2 parameters via Innovate OT1 and AF ratio via Innovate LC1.

Seeing all those yellow connectors reminds me of thermodynamics lab... not something I want to be reminded of. At last we'll have meaningful data about the Exige's charge cooling system. We just need to measure the MAF through the duct then we have all the pieces - john.

[apk919]

Originally Posted by Mag

ok cars all set up. the issue with the temp differences had to do with technical problems with the gauges. Laptop temps are accurate. Will do a test tomorrow and log the data.

...

Looking forward to results...

[Mag]

I think this is a full software download from innovate. It's called Logworks. Program doesn't allow an export to excel and I dont want to copy just a section of the graph, there's about 20mins of data.
Support :: Innovate Motorsports

For those interested in data logged; download, install, the above in order to view the data file. PM me your email if interested, the file type is invalid for attachment here.

Look at session 1&3, 2 was an accident. Session 1 is upon engine start to warmed up. Session 3 includes highway driving, ending with semi traffic and parking lot.

TC4_2 is the temp at Cup roof scoop entrance.
TC4_3 is the inlet side temps

All other parameters self explanatory.

Dont pay attention to AFR, my sensor needs to be recalibrated.

I did another run tonight that was accidentally deleted, 2nd gear rolling start redlining thru 4th to 8k rpm to 180km/hr, twice. Inlet temps went up to 80C+ but drop quickly post hard running, outlet temps never crossing 60C mark, dropping slower than inlet IAT did to mean. For the most part IAT temps range in high mid 40Cs to 58Cs when running normally. Will be interesting to see stock IC and RLS+ fans result.

Ambient temps high 20's. TC4_2 hood temps were consitant with this prior to run and raised to high 30C's, and stayed around there regardless whether car was moving or still. Marginally down 1-2C at higher speeds. My guess this has to do with hot air from radiator which heats up surface near roof entrance where thermocouple probe is located. Since it also senses radiant, this is prob why.

When I get the chance, will do the same with a stock IC only. then RLS with Spal fans arrived today... and another data set with fans + RLS IC + heat shield (between engine and IC).

Note: car has large alum rad., low temp thermo RLS IC, WR header/decat, Sard stock airbox highflow filter, airboxsnorkel delete, Ti TWR muffler.



pic of fans inside shroud of stock IC.

[robains]

Very interested on how the fans workout.

Any chance you wiring guru's could share info on where I might be able to find an RPM signal in the center wiring harness inside the car?

Thanks, Rob.

[Mag]

Originally Posted by robains

Very interested on how the fans workout.

Any chance you wiring guru's could share info on where I might be able to find an RPM signal in the center wiring harness inside the car?

Thanks, Rob.

i think on of the pids is RPM which comes from the ecu... but dont take my word for it...

[robains]

pids?

Was hoping to get a wire color.

thanks, Rob.

[Mag]

oh the innovate software allow log data to be exported to 2 formats; Bosch MDF and Data Interchange Format (dif.), not sure if you can view these.

I can do this if anyone needs.

[Mag]

Originally Posted by robains

pids?

Was hoping to get a wire color.

thanks, Rob.

one of the Parameter IDs on the obd2. but i dont know if this is the right place to tap in. sorry no idea on wire color ...

[Thomasio]

Mag - what are ambient air temps in HK these days? What is the relative humidity?

[Mag]

Originally Posted by Thomasio

Mag - what are ambient air temps in HK these days? What is the relative humidity?

28C ambient, 90% humidity on day of log.

[apk919]

Originally Posted by Mag

I think this is a full software download from innovate. It's called Logworks. Program doesn't allow an export to excel and I dont want to copy just a section of the graph, there's about 20mins of data.
Support :: Innovate Motorsports

For those interested in data logged; download, install, the above in order to view the data file. PM me your email if interested, the file type is invalid for attachment here.

Look at session 1&3, 2 was an accident. Session 1 is upon engine start to warmed up. Session 3 includes highway driving, ending with semi traffic and parking lot.

TC4_2 is the temp at Cup roof scoop entrance.
TC4_3 is the inlet side temps

All other parameters self explanatory.

Dont pay attention to AFR, my sensor needs to be recalibrated.

I did another run tonight that was accidentally deleted, 2nd gear rolling start redlining thru 4th to 8k rpm to 180km/hr, twice. Inlet temps went up to 80C+ but drop quickly post hard running, outlet temps never crossing 60C mark, dropping slower than inlet IAT did to mean. For the most part IAT temps range in high mid 40Cs to 58Cs when running normally. Will be interesting to see stock IC and RLS+ fans result.

Ambient temps high 20's. TC4_2 hood temps were consitant with this prior to run and raised to high 30C's, and stayed around there regardless whether car was moving or still. Marginally down 1-2C at higher speeds. My guess this has to do with hot air from radiator which heats up surface near roof entrance where thermocouple probe is located. Since it also senses radiant, this is prob why.

When I get the chance, will do the same with a stock IC only. then RLS with Spal fans arrived today... and another data set with fans + RLS IC + heat shield (between engine and IC).

Note: car has large alum rad., low temp thermo RLS IC, WR header/decat, Sard stock airbox highflow filter, airboxsnorkel delete, Ti TWR muffler.

You can export the data from Logworks as a tab-delimited text file (on a per session basis). It's pretty easy to get it into Excel from there...

BTW, I'm assuming that IAT is the intake air temperature before the supercharger... I guess charge temperature downstream from the intercooler is not available as an OBD-II parameter?