LSD a disadvantage on the track????

[maz]

you are an itiot if you think you can do a better job of sorting sports cars than lotus can.

[bruh_la]

When a factory spokespersons say stuff in public they speak the company line.........it does not always mean its true or optimal.

Watch the Exige S on the top gear lap, its smoking its inside wheel everywhere. The stig (a professional racing driver) said it would have been quicker with lsd.

I have an S with Lsd and its traction out 2nd gear turns is incredible. In the wet its even more pronounced. As for the understeer, i find spinning the inside wheel out of 2nd gear corners just as frustrating as understeer. Thats why i ordered lsd and have optimized the front camber to dial out the understeer which is in a std geo, non lsd, lotus anyway.....

[xtn]

Originally Posted by cgomez

For example, I don't think I would have saved this one having had my open diff Elise instead of my LSD Exige. Once that rear wheel is up in the air (A bit too much rebound) there's no power or push to keep the car from spinning into the Armco.

uh... once a rear wheel is up in the air the torsen style LSD in your Exige behaves exactly like an open dif anyway.

Now listen up everybody...

codymac has an open dif. xtn has lsd. Both have similar experience and similar seat time on the same track. Both run similar lap times. So close, in fact, that we can take turns running in front and neither one of us can pull away from the other on average.

The simple fact is that we have each learned his OWN vehicle's dynamics and responses. Maybe they behave slightly different exiting a turn under power. So what? He knows how to get his pointed where he wants it to be, and so do I. Maybe on a few turns he has a 0.05 second advantage, and maybe on a few others I have a 0.05 second advantage.

And fzust... it's a bit simplistic to say LSD promotes understeer because you're "getting taction in the rear." It promotes understeer because under power it doesn't allow the rear tires to rotate at different speeds as easily, so it takes more work by the front tires to drag the car around an arc.

And max... You're an idiot if you think Lotus knew exactly what my favored handling characteristics are. Every small change in setup has tradeoffs. MY priorities may require a slight advantage in turn-in response, while yours may require a slight advantage in highway stability. Therefor I align with more front toe-out than you. Doesn't mean one is better than the other because there are different goals to be judged against. Lotus engineers are genius, but that does NOT mean the default setup is the end-all-be-all king of the world setup for everybody. Besides, it has been shown many times that setups as delivered from the factory have been all over the map. If I drive my car around the track and find one end to be looser than the other, I prefer to make a slight change and retest until I get the balance perfect for me. How can you say there's no way I could improve it? Should I just drive around with the rear end so loose and on the hairy edge of spinning all the time? No thanks.

xtn

[elptex]

I really think this is a matter of personal preference for this car we so affectionatly lust depending on both usage and desired feel. You will have people equally split on whether the benefits are worth it or if the drawbacks outweigh the positive. For what it is worth, you can be just as fast with or without a LSD once you have learned how to drive with the setup you have. Once you have gotten used to an open differential setup, jumping right into a LSD setup will definitely feel different, most likely in a negative way. Same applies true for the reverse. (Side note: Definitely need a LSD for 4wd vehicles, though)

[elptex]

Wow...xtn and I just said [approxiamately] the same thing...this is huge <3

[grecomfs]

Thanks for the links and responses. I had no idea this was such a hot button topic. Still not 100% on what I'll choose though. Anyone know if the "Cup car" plate -type LSD can be retro-ed? Thanks again.

[xtn]

Originally Posted by elptex

Wow...xtn and I just said [approxiamately] the same thing...this is huge <3

Hey you got lucky on this one!

[codymac]

Originally Posted by maz

you are an itiot if you think you can do a better job of sorting sports cars than lotus can.

Thanks, maz - my day wouldn't be complete without making you think I'm an idiot.


You're right, nobody knows how to sort a car better. That must explain why the Cadena boys are having so much success right now and all the Brits go to Plans to get their cars sorted for the MESC Series.

It also explains why these cars don't have all those street car compromises like minimal negative camber up front, windows that go up and down, radios, A/C, airbags, seatbelt tensioners, etc.

Originally Posted by xtn

Now listen up everybody...

codymac has an open dif. xtn has lsd. Both have similar experience and similar seat time on the same track. Both run similar lap times. So close, in fact, that we can take turns running in front and neither one of us can pull away from the other on average.

True dat! Makes for some awesome fun too.

[elptex]

Originally Posted by xtn

Hey you got lucky on this one!

Ha!

No winning with you.

[cgomez]

Originally Posted by xtn

uh... once a rear wheel is up in the air the torsen style LSD in your Exige behaves exactly like an open dif anyway.

xtn

you know that "rear wheel up in the air" is a metaphor... it means having one wheel with a lot less weigh on it..., and the LSD makes a BIG difference when trying to straighten up the car from an oversteer situation...

Laptime wise, unless you have several severely tight hairpins there shouldn't be a difference. But the LSD cars are sure a lot more fun to drive and more controllable.

Have any of you tried driving fast a non-LSD car in the rain or winter? It's just no fun, watching the engine rev up with little control over the rear and no power oversteer attitude.

[bruh_la]

Originally Posted by maz

you are an itiot if you think you can do a better job of sorting sports cars than lotus can.

Its all a compromise based on what you want, what you like, and were you drive. Lotus produce a good alround car set up, if you want to improve it for a specific type of driving you can, its not difficult.

....and you may want to practice your manners, especially if what you are claiming is factually wrong.

[codymac]

Originally Posted by cgomez

Have any of you tried driving fast a non-LSD car in the rain or winter? It's just no fun, watching the engine rev up with little control over the rear and no power oversteer attitude.

I'm getting much, much better at it.

[carl]

"you are an itiot if you think you can do a better job of sorting sports cars than lotus can"


That’s why they say for best handling go with -.2 in the front..I wonder where the under steer comes from? What a mystery. Carl

[ZJChaser]

You really just have to learn your car. My LSD does induce understeer on corner exit but I've learned to drivethe car to accomodate this and I don't think it really slows me up much if any.

The one thing I do hate is the TC. I know it is designed to work with the LSD but I always turn it off.

I should also point out that I have had a "factory alignment" on the car and just got it aligned. I had `1.5 degrees of toe in in the rear which could have been contributing a bit to my understeer. I'll report back after a few July track days with the new alignment.

[Maxster]

Originally Posted by xtn

uh... once a rear wheel is up in the air the torsen style LSD in your Exige behaves exactly like an open dif anyway.

Now listen up everybody...

codymac has an open dif. xtn has lsd. Both have similar experience and similar seat time on the same track. Both run similar lap times. So close, in fact, that we can take turns running in front and neither one of us can pull away from the other on average.


xtn

XTN, you were inspired. Once the argument is settled on LSD let's start talking about Electronic Traction Control. You have LSD, Cody has open diff and I only have TC (as I speciffically ordered). I prefer not to have LSD but like TC since it can be de-activated. Now, if the 211 diff had been available, with a number of settings, then I would have considered it. I guess your assessment is right: Everybody has his/her own settings, style and familiarity with the car.

This board can be very educational, I just learned the word "itiot" as cody was called by some very naive board member.

[tonykomo]

Originally Posted by maz

you are an itiot if you think you can do a better job of sorting sports cars than lotus can.

what on earth are you talking about? all lotus do is provide you with a base car (sometimes with options) which they then expect some to to leave as stock and others to "refine". are you saying that we're not capable of refining a product from lotus?

when i say the LSD cut my laptimes and handling of the car, i'm talking from experience, not Lotus hero worship...

[JeffYoung]

I went with the no LSD on Lotus' recommendation in my 06 Exige. In turns 1, 4 and Oak Tree at VIR, I get wheelspin. My A048s are cylced out, but right now my perception is that the car would be faster with an LSD. I'll see what it does with new tires.

I'm also generally aware that an LSD can also produce understeer on turn in (and not just exit). As you turn in, the inner wheel is going to try and turn faster than the outer, and the LSD is going to "work" and potentially cause a push. Potentially.

The best LSDs, if I understand the LSD gurus correctly, are clutch packs that are set up to free wheel under coast/braking, and then "lock" under acceleration.

[Ram]

Originally Posted by JeffYoung

I went with the no LSD on Lotus' recommendation in my 06 Exige. In turns 1, 4 and Oak Tree at VIR, I get wheelspin. My A048s are cylced out, but right now my perception is that the car would be faster with an LSD. I'll see what it does with new tires.

What gear are you using? I'm in 3rd in T1 and T4, no wheelspin with fresh tires but a little in T1 with cycled rears. I occasionally get some wheelspin in Oak Tree (2nd gear), but if I take an early enough line that's not a problem either. I may not be carrying enough speed...

[JeffYoung]

3rd in 1, and 2 in 4 and Oak Tree, although I probably could and should use 3rd in 4.

Right now, car sounds like a dentist's drill in T1. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. Definitely losing a second there with teh spin.

[MikeW]

Originally Posted by maz

you are an itiot if you think you can do a better job of sorting sports cars than lotus can.

When God starts making cars, I'll consider them perfect and quit trying to think for myself.