New intercooler alternatives..

[Doghouse]

OK, so there been a lot of teasing going on around here about potential (some sub $2K, some not) solutions to the air flow / heat soak issue for the Exige S intercooler.

To recap the various threads on this issue and based on my notes we have (in no particular order):

Option a) SHOCO's reverse air flow system that ducts cool air from the sides and out the front of the intercooler. (removal of stock ducting from roof required). Cost about a few hundred dollars, but has anybody (besides SHOCO) installed and verified this works??

Option b) Ade, Ronin and others... A/W Proalloy intercooler system which requires clam removal and plumbing. If you go for the full Ronin you need to add an additional heat exchanger up front and convert your oil coolers and install a new oil cooler setup somewhere. IMHO, the Ronin solution is a bit overkill, but given his apparent inclination to go for the technically maxed out limit on everything.

Option c) Thomasio's mystery wrapped in an enigma solution with which he has been teasing us all with.

Again looking back through the various threads and knowing that Thomasio has access to CNC mandrel bent aluminum and knows how to use it, here is my best guess as to what he's up to, and I invite you, my dear reader, to speculate along with me...

I think it is ___insert your text here___.


No really take a stab at your best guess as to what you think Thomasio is doing. Let's see how close we can get.

[Doghouse]

I think it is a set of CNC mandrel bent / cut aluminum ducting system that takes cool air from the p-side (and maybe the driver side as well) and which then connects into a "manifold' that clamps on to the front end of the stock a/a intercooler. It will utilize silicone hoses to adjust for the torque / engine / body movement issues. It'll bolt / click tie onto the cage components and not require any major modifications or work (i.e. no body removal issues)

If he's really on the ball he will have out flow ducting that attaches to the out flow side of the intercooler and directs the air flow out of the engine bay area. This will maximize the pressure drop and thus increase air flow.

He needs to test it in the desert SW because a) it's hot / warm there. and b) arguably there is an issue of engine over heating with the diverted air flow. Let's not forget the stock air flow dumps the air flow right above the engine thus creating a nice flow of air out of the engine compartment to help take engine heat out of the compartment.

Given the alternative solutions, if I did all the work needed to get the CNC drawing together, test fit some prototypes, and materials, I'd price it in the $1750 to $1950 price range to keep it below the 'holy grail' solution price of $2000, but still recoup the expenses / efforts involved. (Fair enough.)

Anybody else want to take the ball and run with it?????




We'll see what comes out, but currently I think the a/w intercooler solution is the most attractive. You get a system with higher capacity to cool on a hot day and at lower speeds. (There is a reason we all don't have air cooled engines...) You get a high efficiency radiator. I guess you'll increase (slightly) the air flow into / out of the engine bay via the roof scoop. The down sides are cost of materials and you have to remove the front clam. At least with the front clam off you can do other mods while you're there.

Which all reminds me...Hey Qball, any further word on the ProAlloy group buy??

[Thomasio]

CNC mandrel bent tubing is indeed one part of the entire solution...

I'll come clean Friday... supporting data will follow.

The Really Light Stuff(TM) solution is all about intake air temperature: control the temperature spikes, and control the average temperature... this prevents detonation and prevents your ECU from pulling back the timing and the resultant power loss.

Getting closer to market each day... if you are ultra impatient, I can put together the components for you to purchase probably less than 2 weeks from this Friday.

[Jack]

What heat soak???

[Thomasio]

Well I do hear that the Cup intercooler helps a bit...

[alexandertg4]

Ah but you forgot one other solution. Mine. I am currently testing an A2W solution for our cars that does not cost 3500 dollars. I will not cost that much I can assure that. Just gotta wait and see

[Thomasio]

Originally Posted by alexandertg4

Ah but you forgot one other solution. Mine. I am currently testing an A2W solution for our cars that does not cost 3500 dollars. I will not cost that much I can assure that. Just gotta wait and see

I think that there is a place for A2A and there is a place for A2W, depending on how you use your car, which climate you live in, how much you value weight considerations, etc.

The more solutions, the merrier!

[Jack]

Originally Posted by Thomasio

Well I do hear that the Cup intercooler helps a bit...

Yes, but as you said in another post, where and how the car is used can also make a significant difference. A cooler charge can never hurt.

[Ade]

Originally Posted by Thomasio

Well I do hear that the Cup intercooler helps a bit...

Yes it will help a bit to give you a worse level of heat soak, as it is larger then it can hold more temp which will take longer to remove with slow constant off boost driving. It is a shame as Lotus used the same technology intercooler just made it bigger, what they should have done was to shield it correctly and use a much more efficient smaller one, but as we know smaller never looks like an upgrade

[Ade]

Originally Posted by Doghouse

Option b) Ade, Ronin and others... A/W Proalloy intercooler system which requires clam removal and plumbing. If you go for the full Ronin you need to add an additional heat exchanger up front and convert your oil coolers and install a new oil cooler setup somewhere. IMHO, the Ronin solution is a bit overkill, but given his apparent inclination to go for the technically maxed out limit on everything.

Just to get things in perspective the Proalloy system does not require you to use any other front heat exchangers than the one supplied, I suspect Frank now does not really need the others he is using, but they are already connected so why not.
The only thing I would make sure you do is buy the more expensive kit and install the new alloy engine rad as the thermal dynamics are so much better than the standard one.

[Doghouse]

Originally Posted by alexandertg4

Ah but you forgot one other solution. Mine. I am currently testing an A2W solution for our cars that does not cost 3500 dollars. I will not cost that much I can assure that. Just gotta wait and see

You're just as bad a tease as Thomasio.

It's not like we're doing defense contractor work here. There are limited solutions (beyond staying with a stock set-up) and may be someone will get a creative idea that we can all benefit from.

[Doghouse]

Originally Posted by Ade

Just to get things in perspective the Proalloy system does not require you to use any other front heat exchangers than the one supplied, I suspect Frank now does not really need the others he is using, but they are already connected so why not.
The only thing I would make sure you do is buy the more expensive kit and install the new alloy engine rad as the thermal dynamics are so much better than the standard one.

Ade,
I 100% agree with your note. The additional heat exchanger and converting over the oil coolers to help is not needed. The Proalloy set-up (new radiator / new intercooler heat sink / new intercooler) should be more than sufficient. While the Ronin / Frank solution is technically pretty cool, IMHO it is overkill. I'd really like to see the temperature drop of water / coolant across the last heat sink. I bet the drop is not that signficant and thus the benefit not as great. There has to be a point of diminishing returns.

[Doghouse]

Originally Posted by Thomasio

CNC mandrel bent tubing is indeed one part of the entire solution...

I'll come clean Friday... supporting data will follow.

The Really Light Stuff(TM) solution is all about intake air temperature: control the temperature spikes, and control the average temperature... this prevents detonation and prevents your ECU from pulling back the timing and the resultant power loss.

Getting closer to market each day... if you are ultra impatient, I can put together the components for you to purchase probably less than 2 weeks from this Friday.

Hey Thomasio, what are you doing on this thread speculating about what you're doing.

If you are not going to put it out there, at least let the rest of us have fun speculating / guessing.

May be we will come up with a solution that you'll want to go forward with...

Come on all you closet engineers / shade tree mechanical geeks, you've rebuilt a Europa using 30 empty beer cans, 25 click ties, a roll of duct tape and 3 coat wire coat hangers. You're creative enough to have rebuilt the bottom end of an oiling system using left over tin foil and JB weld while at the track in the dark and raining. What alternative set-ups can you think of to solve the intercooler air flow issue?

[ZTEC]

Originally Posted by Doghouse

Ade, Ronin and others... A/W Proalloy intercooler system which requires clam removal and plumbing. If you go for the full Ronin you need to add an additional heat exchanger up front and convert your oil coolers and install a new oil cooler setup somewhere. IMHO, the Ronin solution is a bit overkill, but given his apparent inclination to go for the technically maxed out limit on everything.

Doghouse, if you've got a
question for frank go to monkeytuner.com and get the correct answer
from him rather than hearsay.......these guys never get the facts
right....thanks

[MaineLotus]

Originally Posted by ZTEC

Doghouse, if you've got a
question for frank go to monkeytuner.com and get the correct answer
from him rather than hearsay.......these guys never get the facts
right....thanks

Yep, you'll hear it first hand..

[Ade]

Originally Posted by ZTEC

Doghouse, if you've got a
question for frank go to monkeytuner.com and get the correct answer
from him rather than hearsay.......these guys never get the facts
right....thanks

I can't see in his post where he asked a question? He made a personal opinion rather than ask a question or maybe I read it wrong?

[Thomasio]

Originally Posted by Ade

Yes it will help a bit to give you a worse level of heat soak, as it is larger then it can hold more temp which will take longer to remove with slow constant off boost driving.

Ade - this logic is a bit oversimplified.

You are correct that a larger mass **all things being equal** would take longer to cool than a smaller mass.

The trick is to get a larger heat sink (to absorb IAT spikes) that can shed heat faster and thus can manage average IAT as well.

Larger heat sink is good if it can also shed heat quickly (increased surface area, increased airflow, etc. etc. etc.)

[Thomasio]

P.S. A correctly designed larger intercooler can provide other advantages ... lower pressure loss across the intercooler, for instance...

[Jamncali]

I am having no problems with the Bemani Kit. Front mount Heat Exchanger and Rear mounted A2W Intercooler. A2W with a good heat exchanger and be done with it.

[alexandertg4]

Originally Posted by Doghouse

You're just as bad a tease as Thomasio.

It's not like we're doing defense contractor work here. There are limited solutions (beyond staying with a stock set-up) and may be someone will get a creative idea that we can all benefit from.

Haha I am sorry to be a tease. I have come up with a few good ideas and people are benefitting with one currently. That would be the 1/4 turn screw idea. However, being as 1 person, I gotta tackle one thing at a time. On top of that, being as giving to the Lotus community as I am, my car is currently with Rotora so that they can develop a brake system for our cars. So I am not a tease on purpose, I am a tease due to time/testing constraints.